Sprint Runs and the Abysmal Aftermarket.

[RickC27]

You apologized in another thread then singled me out again in this thread. How is me taking pictures of my knives on Instagram any different than RadioactiveSpyder? He has 10,000 followers and his knives look very nice and minimally used. I have a tenth of his followers. It makes no sense for you to call me out when others do the same.

I dont have Instagram. I only see whats posted here, or when you used to have a link in your sig. Heck, I don't even have Facebook. This forum is as close as I get to social media.

[Spyderman91]

The battle continues, to reiterate the spirit of Ali G.

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

I agree the aftermarket is terrible. I will also add to it the distribution of Sprint Runs as well.

Yes I have overpaid for Sprint runs on the secondary market.
Yes I have overpaid for out of production knives.
Yes I do suspect certain Sprint Run Vendors of purposely controlling stock & overinflating prices on eBay and Amazon.

Here is the real problem though. How the heck do you know when a sprint run is coming and who is carrying it?

Receiving the email from Spyderco is helpful.

I was aware of the REX45 knives coming out from reading the Spyderco Catalog earlier in the year but it is hard to follow when you do no know when they are coming out or even who the Sprint Run Vendor is going to be.

Even when I received email from shops where I purposely put in to be alerted once available and hit the link as soon as the email came in guess what? Yep sold out.

So yeah not impressed, I believe without facts to back it up, that their are some games being played for certain from observation and it is not all above board.

Personally I would be happier to pay more directly up front than deal with the aftermarket. I am certain Spyderco does not make any more or less on the Sprint Runs no matter how we obtain them and frankly would sell more of them this way.

If Sal were to put out oh lets say a Military fully serrated / Partially Serrated / DLC as well as plain steel in CTS204P and charge Lets say $200.00 for it. I would purchase them without Question.

Recently I purchased 2 Military's in CTS204P. They were purchased directly from Knife Works and paid $179.95 each. This in my opinion was a fair price and they did well with me because I like many will buy 1 to use and 1 to keep just in case.

All it takes is loosing a favorite knife once to develope this mind set.

[Archimedes]

It is ironic that one other thread going on here now is complaining about the quality of Spyderco's high end folders and then this thread saying they are selling for more than retail on the secondary market.

Folks you can't make this stuff up if you tried.

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

Laughing

Yep couldn't make this stuff up if you tried.

[Evil D]

Follow all the major dealers on social media, stalk the forum like a meth addict. Between those two it's hard to miss sprints and exclusives.

[MichaelScott]

It is ironic that one other thread going on here now is complaining about the quality of Spyderco's high end folders and then this thread saying they are selling for more than retail on the secondary market.

Folks you can't make this stuff up if you tried.

Nice!

[MichaelScott]

I agree the aftermarket is terrible. I will also add to it the distribution of Sprint Runs as well.

Yes I have overpaid for Sprint runs on the secondary market.
Yes I have overpaid for out of production knives.
Yes I do suspect certain Sprint Run Vendors of purposely controlling stock & overinflating prices on eBay and Amazon.

So yeah not impressed, I believe without facts to back it up, that their are some games being played for certain from observation and it is not all above board.

A market is only terrible if it doesn’t meet your expectations. An item is initially priced at what the maker determines is a fair price that will encourage sales and return a reasonable profit. Sometimes they get this wrong. It may be overpriced for what the market (the aggregation of buyers) will pay. It also may be underpriced.

If it is overpriced and you can buy it cheaper, you are happy and the market is good. If the market decides it was under priced and you must pay more, then you are unhappy and the market is terrible.

You don’t “overpay”. You pay what the market demands. You don’t complain when you “underpay”.

Vendors don’t control the market. They go with it. If someone over prices an item, it likely won’t sell.

Buying knives at more than their original price is a completely voluntary act. If you think the price is too high, don’t buy. The market responds to both a high and low sales volume.

The higher prices for some knives is not a conspiracy.

[tvenuto]

It is ironic that one other thread going on here now is complaining about the quality of Spyderco's high end folders and then this thread saying they are selling for more than retail on the secondary market.

Folks you can't make this stuff up if you tried.

Actually it’s my thinking that these are two symptoms with the same cause. The OP in this thread seems to be lamenting that Spyderco knives have a higher perceived value than their MAP price, and thus there is room for a secondary market to charge more than MAP. Viola, an economy is born.

The other thread is lamenting that Spyderco cuts costs in an intelligent way, or at least, a way that much of the market agrees with. He would prefer to have ultimate stats where materials are concerned, which would increase value for him but likely reduce it for much of the rest of the market. Were this enacted I would think the flipping would be reduced.

So, the complaints are actually the same: Spyderco doesn’t charge enough for their higher end or limited folders.

[SF Native]

How is this any different than any other product with limited availability? Concert tickets and the like? There are always scalpers.

I think I prefer the slow roll out. If you don’t get one on the first wave, you have a better shot later on the next if you are persistent and keep looking when other (including the scalpers) have given up. Got my Hap40 caly3 that way. Weeks after the first release. Thought I was going to miss out completely. If it’s a one time release as most exclusives are, you miss one day and they are gone.

[bearfacedkiller]

it is about patience, diligence and self control.

I am immune to the "fear of missing out". If I get it I get it and if I don't then I don't. I already have way too many knives.

I do sign up for email alerts at as many dealers as possible, I have a bunch of bookmarks of more obscure dealers, I watch the forums like a hawk and I keep a separate knife fund ready for such purchases. I have always had a very flexible schedule with a lot of free time so I do have that in my favor. I could have bought ten different REX45 Para2's for MAP throughout the first week. I have never missed out on a sprint or exclusive that I wanted. I am pretty sure the only Spydie I have seen that I would not have been able to get if I wanted it was the composite Para2 and I just wasn't that interested in it.

Cooler heads prevail (and they don't overpay). There will always be more knives that interest me than what I could, would or should own.

[Calicoast]

^^^
This is where a am at.
#There will always be more knives.
Yes, I missed the Rex 45, but I have many others still testing out, and future steels that have not even been released yet. Where does it end!?

I have narrowed it down to 2 or 3, that I will be buying soon.
1) Waterway
2) Gayle Bradley 2
3) Pacific Salt LC200N
C

[The Meat man]

^^^
This is where a am at.
#There will always be more knives.
Yes, I missed the Rex 45, but I have many others still testing out, and future steels that have not even been released yet. Where does it end!?

I have narrowed it down to 2 or 3, that I will be buying soon.
1) Waterway
2) Gayle Bradley 2
3) Pacific Salt LC200N
C

Are you forgetting the upcoming Calypso Jr Sprint?

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

I agree the aftermarket is terrible. I will also add to it the distribution of Sprint Runs as well.

Yes I have overpaid for Sprint runs on the secondary market.
Yes I have overpaid for out of production knives.
Yes I do suspect certain Sprint Run Vendors of purposely controlling stock & overinflating prices on eBay and Amazon.

So yeah not impressed, I believe without facts to back it up, that their are some games being played for certain from observation and it is not all above board.

A market is only terrible if it doesn’t meet your expectations. An item is initially priced at what the maker determines is a fair price that will encourage sales and return a reasonable profit. Sometimes they get this wrong. It may be overpriced for what the market (the aggregation of buyers) will pay. It also may be underpriced.

If it is overpriced and you can buy it cheaper, you are happy and the market is good. If the market decides it was under priced and you must pay more, then you are unhappy and the market is terrible.

You don’t “overpay”. You pay what the market demands. You don’t complain when you “underpay”.

Vendors don’t control the market. They go with it. If someone over prices an item, it likely won’t sell.

Buying knives at more than their original price is a completely voluntary act. If you think the price is too high, don’t buy. The market responds to both a high and low sales volume.

The higher prices for some knives is not a conspiracy.

You are not entirely wrong on any of your points.

My view of the market is not based on over or underpaying. In fact I have yet to underpay for anything on the so called secondary market but that may be largely due to having tastes that run towards quality. My dim view is of the predatory price fixing on the secondary market for select items.

Just because this is the Abysmal way the system works does not mean I have to like it or agree with it. In my opinion it is indeed Abysmal yet I continue to purchase from it because often there is no alternative.

I do take silent satisfaction and now not so silent satisfaction in saying "No Way" to certain overpriced items on ebay when I see them and just because I can afford them I do not let that dictate my taste. These prices illustrated below are not just current trends they have been like this for over 2 years now so yeah Price Fixing and gouging. Abysmal.

In fact had they been reasonably priced for example Spyderco-Paramilitary-2-Orange-G-10-Black-Blade-CTS-XHP bot trying to be sold for Roughly $300.00 I would have likely purchased two of them already 1 to use and 1 in case something happened to the first one.

I think $225.00 to $250.00 is a fair price taking into account it is no longer in production and my goodness at that price why is it not in production? Why is the Secondary Market profiteering this way? Seems to me it is not the Secondary Market at all.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Spyderco-Param ... SwYSBbW7--

or

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SPYDERCO-C81GP ... SwEMdbWzV3


Yes I do overpay which I define as if the original price for a Knife was $215.00 and now that it is no longer in production, or has supposedly sold out it is $300.00.

Did I pay the $300.00 because I wanted it and could afford it? Absolutly I did. Voluntarily.

However I still overpaid for an item in my mind. Yes, Yes I know rarity and all that of course those are deciding factors. I never complain when I overpay but I also do not fail to acknowledge that I did indeed overpay due to price fixing on the so called secondary market.

On the vendors not controlling a market. "Sprint Run" is by definition creating a controlled market with limited quantities As far as I know Sprint Runs are asked for by a vendor. Spyderco comes to an agreement with them as to what they want to offer as their exclusive sprint run and how many. For Example Bento Box Shop Paramilitary2 M390. Guaranteed proven success. The vendor works out how many they would like Spyderco to manufacture the rest pretty much follows.

We can see the Paramilitary 2 with Ughhh Red Scales is less popular and does not sell as well.

Question? Since it is a well established fact that selling Paramilitary 2's in the M390 Steel or Elmax or Some of the Carpenter Steel runs that typically sell for $300.00 and more on eBay, is it not, not only an easy sale but a profitable one? Why then would a vendor not order a second production run? Seriously look on ebay at all the closed sales, clearly it is profitable and even more so on the secondary market.

I do believe that vendors sell under different names on Ebay for this very reason and do better there than on their own websites where they mark the item as no longer available.

I do not believe they all do this. For Example I am certain that Knife Works is a solid vendor as I purchased two of the Military CTS204P knives from them. $ 179.95 each ( After buying the first one and using it I purchased a second one for back up no way I want to loose the first one and have to try and replace it, it is a real gem)

Again this is only a belief totaly unsubstantiated by hard facts but a hard one to shake seeing how things are sold on the supposed secondary market.

When enough people place large orders to resale on eBay and all set their price (Scalpers) with buy it now that is controlling a market and price fixing. By comparrison the true auctions for less available desirable items are few. The thing I really dislike is seeing someone selling a Para3 for $249.00 on ebay when it is still available from Bento Box Shop for around $155.00 that is just profiteering.

At the same time I am glad the so called secondary market is in place because otherwise I would have missed out on a few knives I really enjoy.

Now on the flip side perhaps it is the secondary market that is hurting the primary and the vendors do not want to reorder something like a Paramilitary2 M390 because there were so many scalpers purchasing from them that if they go to resell the market will be flooded.

In that case limit purchase to 2 per customer.

At any rate try to take my griping with a grain of salt, things are the way they are and you are quite correct it is everyones choice to buy or not. The market however regardless of the underlying causes is truly Abysmal and I do believe if Spyderco would sell sprint runs and also sell to order direct it would be more profitable for Sypderco and satisfy more people.

For example I would buy a fully serrated Spyderco Military in CTS204P steel with my choice of G10 Scale color and gladly pay $250.00 to Even $275.00 to Spyderco, I however will never pay $500.00 on ebay for one just because it is old and out of production.

[Calicoast]

^^^
This is where a am at.
#There will always be more knives.
Yes, I missed the Rex 45, but I have many others still testing out, and future steels that have not even been released yet. Where does it end!?

I have narrowed it down to 2 or 3, that I will be buying soon.
1) Waterway
2) Gayle Bradley 2
3) Pacific Salt LC200N
C

Are you forgetting the upcoming Calypso Jr Sprint?

4) Calypso Jr. Sprint Super Blue

Lol.
C

[The Mastiff]

4) Calypso Jr. Sprint Super Blue

Lol.

Why do I feel like you should have a sinister " Heh Heh Heh! " after that instead of LOL ?

:D

Joe

[tvenuto]

“Price fixing” is when 2 or more entities get together and decide to not undercut one another so they can both charge more than the market would otherwise bear. Thus, getting to price like a monopoly even though they are not otherwise. This is indeed a predatory business practice and yet is nothing at all like what’s going on when it comes to the secondary knife market. In fact, the secondary knife market is fueled primarily by a large auction site, and is about as close as you can come to a “free market” and pretty much the polar opposite of “price fixing.”

What’s more, price fixing really works best in scenarios where people actually need the product to survive (food, fuel, water, medicine, etc) anyway. Again, quite the opposite of collectible tools.

[Calicoast]

4) Calypso Jr. Sprint Super Blue

Lol.

Why do I feel like you should have a sinister " Heh Heh Heh! " after that instead of LOL ?

:D

Joe

Maybe little of both. It's hard to keep up. One gets dropped, another gets added. #spydercoknowsthis. :)

[MichaelScott]

“Price fixing” is when 2 or more entities get together and decide to not undercut one another so they can both charge more than the market would otherwise bear. Thus, getting to price like a monopoly even though they are not otherwise. This is indeed a predatory business practice and yet is nothing at all like what’s going on when it comes to the secondary knife market. In fact, the secondary knife market is fueled primarily by a large auction site, and is about as close as you can come to a “free market” and pretty much the polar opposite of “price fixing.”

What’s more, price fixing really works best in scenarios where people actually need the product to survive (food, fuel, water, medicine, etc) anyway. Again, quite the opposite of collectible tools.

Well said. Thank you.

[ChrisinHove]

Auctions can be **too** susceptible to market sentiment to be a useful indicator of value, sometimes. Spikes or troughs in prices can be generated by bad news or market rumours. You can argue that those are at the real value at that precise moment, but not that those elevated or reduced prices have particular meaning or longer term relevance.