Share your Edge| CPM S110v

[Deadboxhero]

I sharpen S90V and S110V at 28deg inclusive with SiC stones (Gritomatic) and Windex to 400grit on a guided system.

I don’t do anything special but I avoid burrs and keep them to a minimum irrespective of what I’m sharpening. Once I have a clean apex I finish with a freshly flattened stone with three light edge leading strokes each side, then two and a single pass each side to finish. Then three or four very light strops with chrome oxide on stiff leather and call it good.

I maintain with a SharpMaker and 40deg micro bevel off medium stones. :)

Bloke you are not the only one I've heard that uses Windex for a stone lubricant. Why might I ask is the properties of Windex ideal for abrading and honing? There is so much debate out there on what to use on benchstones and whetstones and I'm curious as to why the Windex or even kerosene for that matter>> because I have a good friend who uses kerosene on most of his stones.

It depends on the bonding.

Some stones are strictly water.

The oilstones don't use water because there bonding doesn't break down as readily and the swarf would clog the stone.

These synthetic stones use a "sintered" construction.

The grains are fused together with heat and pressure.

Very minimal bonding to release grit so water doesn't work very well.

The Windex/Simply Green acts like a surfactant and decreases the surface tension of the liquid allowing it to collect and float away more swarf and prevent clogging of the pores.

The kerosene goes way back to when it used by loggers with crosscut saws. It would help clean the tree pitch off the side of the saw and was more readily available (Windex didn't exist yet :D)

It is recommend when restoring a crosscut saw to use kersone and a Norton Crystolon Axe puck.(traditional) The problem is the kersone evaporates fast . Smells bad and is flammable. So I wouldn't use that on benchstones.
Not as effective.

You can use food grade mineral oil too but that's too messy for these coarser synthetics in my experience and should be saved for natrual Arkansas stones.
The Arks should just be saved for nostalgia only IMHO. There are just much better stones available now

[Pelagic]

I'm almost reluctant to respond to this thread. My take on this steel is pretty different from most folks here and it makes me wonder how I can get such different results from the majority of people. I don't doubt the data or the sharpening skill of guys like Deadboxhero and Pelagic and many others here but I don't doubt my own either. At the end of the day, if I have to choose between someone elses observations and my own, I have to go with what I see, not what I hear.

I typically sharpen this steel somewhere between 12-15 degrees per side. Sometimes I use the Sharpmaker to set the bevels, sometimes I freehand and sometimes I use my KME. I seem to get the same results with all three methods. The steel seems no harder to grind than other steels with diamond stones and there is nothing tricky about setting and cleaning up a bevel. What I notice though is that at any given grit, s110v and s90v will not reach quite the same level of sharpness as some other steels. As an example, lc200n, m4 and cruwear (and many other steels) will all quickly and firmly bite into the hair on my head on contact, straight off a 300 grit stone. S90v/110v given the same treatment on the same grit will bite but not as readily. I have to take s90/110v up to 600 grit to get that level of bite. By that grit though, the other steels will now be treetopping arm hair, where s90/110v will not. I have to take it to 1000 or 1200 to get it to that level, but at that grit, the others have now started to whittle hairs, etc. For me, s90v/s110v are always one step behind in sharpness/apex width at any given grit. The result is, in order to get s110v to the same level of sharpness, I have to take it one step higher in refinement...which is kind of the opposite of what I'm looking for in a steel.

Another observation I've made that runs contrary to popular opinion is that the steel takes a LESS aggressive edge than many other steels at any given grit. My Waterway in lc200n for example will have a FAR more aggressive and toothy edge when finished at 600 than my s110v knives. Both will be extremely sharp but the lc200n will bite more readily and firmly into beard hair than the s110v AND will have far more tooth. That's a lose lose for s110v in my book.

Add into all that that the s90v/110v class steels are a little bit fussier to work with when chasing high levels of sharp and you've got a no go for me. I don't hate the steels and I totally understand why some folks love them. They are great for folks who don't want to sharpen very often and are ok carrying a knife with a moderately sharp (or moderately dull) edge for a long time. There are even knives where I would favor these steels, such as a fillet knife. A fillet knife (or a skinner) can be TOO sharp sometimes. Sometimes right after I have resharpened, it is very difficult to skin fish without cutting through the skin. I kind of prefer working with a fillet knife that has lost that top 10% of its sharpness. A steel like s110v would make a lot of sense for me in a knife like that. In a folder, EDC, or general purpose knife though, the steel just doesn't do it for me. Lots of drawbacks and no benefits given the way I use and sharpen my knives. To each his own. :)

To be honest I agree with everything you said. I carry s110v for a purpose, it's not my favorite steel. But high levels of sharpness are attainable on any grit with some extra time.

[Bloke]

I'm almost reluctant to respond to this thread. My take on this steel is pretty different from most folks here and it makes me wonder how I can get such different results from the majority of people. I don't doubt the data or the sharpening skill of guys like Deadboxhero and Pelagic and many others here but I don't doubt my own either. At the end of the day, if I have to choose between someone elses observations and my own, I have to go with what I see, not what I hear.

I typically sharpen this steel somewhere between 12-15 degrees per side. Sometimes I use the Sharpmaker to set the bevels, sometimes I freehand and sometimes I use my KME. I seem to get the same results with all three methods. The steel seems no harder to grind than other steels with diamond stones and there is nothing tricky about setting and cleaning up a bevel. What I notice though is that at any given grit, s110v and s90v will not reach quite the same level of sharpness as some other steels. As an example, lc200n, m4 and cruwear (and many other steels) will all quickly and firmly bite into the hair on my head on contact, straight off a 300 grit stone. S90v/110v given the same treatment on the same grit will bite but not as readily. I have to take s90/110v up to 600 grit to get that level of bite. By that grit though, the other steels will now be treetopping arm hair, where s90/110v will not. I have to take it to 1000 or 1200 to get it to that level, but at that grit, the others have now started to whittle hairs, etc. For me, s90v/s110v are always one step behind in sharpness/apex width at any given grit. The result is, in order to get s110v to the same level of sharpness, I have to take it one step higher in refinement...which is kind of the opposite of what I'm looking for in a steel.

Another observation I've made that runs contrary to popular opinion is that the steel takes a LESS aggressive edge than many other steels at any given grit. My Waterway in lc200n for example will have a FAR more aggressive and toothy edge when finished at 600 than my s110v knives. Both will be extremely sharp but the lc200n will bite more readily and firmly into beard hair than the s110v AND will have far more tooth. That's a lose lose for s110v in my book.

Add into all that that the s90v/110v class steels are a little bit fussier to work with when chasing high levels of sharp and you've got a no go for me. I don't hate the steels and I totally understand why some folks love them. They are great for folks who don't want to sharpen very often and are ok carrying a knife with a moderately sharp (or moderately dull) edge for a long time. There are even knives where I would favor these steels, such as a fillet knife. A fillet knife (or a skinner) can be TOO sharp sometimes. Sometimes right after I have resharpened, it is very difficult to skin fish without cutting through the skin. I kind of prefer working with a fillet knife that has lost that top 10% of its sharpness. A steel like s110v would make a lot of sense for me in a knife like that. In a folder, EDC, or general purpose knife though, the steel just doesn't do it for me. Lots of drawbacks and no benefits given the way I use and sharpen my knives. To each his own. :)

100% agree, Gringo!

And, fair to say I wouldn’t be taking S90V or S110V to a Hair Whittling Competition. That said it’s hard if not impossible to fault a blade that fillets 40 odd fish before it needs attention.

I neither like nor dislike sharpening but given a choice I’d rather contemplate my naval so I’m happy with a “blunt” S90V Sprig that cuts like a sharp one for extended periods of time.

Like you say mate, to each there own.

[Bloke]

Bloke you are not the only one I've heard that uses Windex for a stone lubricant. Why might I ask is the properties of Windex ideal for abrading and honing? There is so much debate out there on what to use on benchstones and whetstones and I'm curious as to why the Windex or even kerosene for that matter>> because I have a good friend who uses kerosene on most of his stones.

Hey Joe,

It’s funny you mention kerosene because I used to use it on all stones prior to using Windex with the exception of Japanese Water Stones. My reasoning is the heavier the grade of oil the less efficiently your stone cuts. Meaning at the extreme end of the scale grease on a stone would be less efficient than light sewing machine oil and kerosene is lighter again.

In reality any petrochemicals are a PITA. Kerosene reeks and you end up with filthy hands, knife scales and rags. Then there’s the clean up and disposal.

Water isn’t much better as far as dirty hands and knife scales go.

I’d known about Windex for many years but having used kerosene on porous stones I figured it was a waste of time and never tried it. I first tried Windex when I bought my Hapstone and new stones a couple of years back on brother Jim Ankerson’s advice and I’ve never looked back. My stones are spotless and plain cut better plus I can clean them in the sink with water when I’m done.

I don’t know how or why Windex works so well but it just does. :)

P.S. Try a little Windex on your Spyderco ceramics and tell me what you think.

[awa54]

Bevel set at 17.5 dps as read by an Angle Cube, zeroed on the work table of the Hapstone Pro (Edge Pro knock-off), the main bevel of FFG blades goes flat on the work table and since many Spyderco FFG blades are around 5 degrees inclusive, this yields an equivalent 15 dps, without mucking around trying to get an angle cube reading off the blade its self. All stones are used with room temp. tap water and kept wet, unless otherwise noted. Apex contact is judged by feeling burr on both sides of the edge, all along its length. The blade is wiped clean with paper towel as required to see how things are progressing and to minimize chances of scratching the flats of the blade with stray grit.

First sharpenings start with a coarse EZE-LAP 1x6" (250 grit?) that has had the edges undercut, back away from the abrasive surface, this allows me to move the bevel back to be flush against the plunge line without scuffing up the side of the plunge, if there are any egregious geometry problems I'll lay in to the blade with this stone, since its abrasive is fused into the metal base and won't tear out or wear away as easily as plated diamond, bonded diamond or composition stones. Successive sharpenings skip this step.

Next is the 240 grit Venev bonded diamond, I set the final bevel geometry and make certain that there is no, or minimal burr left after this step.

Then on on to the 400 grit Venev bonded diamond, I refine the edge, make sure the apex is clean (2.5x opti-visor and 10x loupe), then continue with extremely light pressure with the stone dry, which leaves a higher polish than when the stone is worked wet, this is strictly for cosmetics, but doesn't take long, and seems to ensure that any residual burr is removed, so why not?

Once the 400 grit Hapstone step is complete I move to the Sharpmaker, with the brown rods in the 40 degree inclusive sockets, I'll do just a few light passes on each side (sets of three or four, on the flats of the stones only) working base to just short of tip, then tip to just short of base to avoid tip rounding or plunge scuffs. Then finish with a few more strokes alternating sides each stroke... total of maybe 15 to 20 total strokes per side max.

Then I give the edge a few alternating strokes across a hard backed pigskin strop loaded with Herb's Yellowstone compound, this is as much so I can look at the pattern left on the strop surface as it is a final de-burring (any areas of hanging burr will leave a scuff on the strop), if there is remaining burr (usually not) then the blade gets drawn over/in to a cork to remove burrs, then given a few more passes on the SM and re-checked on the strop.

This process doesn't leave a very refined edge, but it's aggressive and slices effectively for a *long* time. At first I tried going all the way to 1200 or 2000 FEPA-F (1 micron) on S110V and S90V, the results I got were frustratingly fussy to achieve and didn't last like these steels were reputed to, so after reading lots of posts here I decided to try the coarse edge route and now I like both steels just fine and sharpen them without any problems (though S90V is still a bit trickier than S110V for me).

I still love polished edges on steels that really excell with them, but now that I've experienced a long lasting "working edge" I actually prefer it for a lot of my yard and garden chores.

[Tdog]

Agree with others that while S110V and S90V can be taken to good edges they don't get "sticky" sharp as well or as easily as many other steels. They do however make up somewhat for that in their stainless qualities. I set the bevel on my Edge Pro and after that use the CBN and brown rods to maintain the edge. Rarely use the fine stones on these steels. Still like the S110V Millie, but prefer it in the M390 or 204P.

[Pelagic]

For those of you that feel s110v doesn't get as sticky as the easier to sharpen steels, I understand 100%. But I think if you left that blade clipped into your guided system all day and occasionally gave it a few more dozen strokes (on whatever you're finishing with, be it a stone or strop), totaling a seemingly unnecessary amount of passes/sharpening, you would finally attain something that would at least be somewhat close to what you can easily obtain with Cruwear or carbon steel. My best edges on s110v came from days where boredom struck and I had my stone nearby. Tons of patience and hundreds of passes later (if I felt I wasn't holding the angle perfectly I'd take a break), I'm pleasantly surprised with how the apex feels.

With that said, it's not really worth it. The great thing about high vanadium steels is that they have great edge retention at extremely coarse finishes. If you're stopping at 200-600 grit, total time spent sharpening isn't very long. Although I often carry a serrated knife, my PE s110v blades see a lot of rope and I usually leave a coarse edge on them. I can only imagine the apex magnified would almost look like a hack saw blade. If for some reason you want to take s110v to an extremely fine finish, prepare to put in the time. Ignore the finish on the bevel. If you feel the apex and its not sticky enough, you're not finished. You can't really skip grits much with this steel, and you MUST hold a steady angle. As soon as you think you're done, do a hundred more passes on the strop.

Oh, and i wouldn't recommend stropping on leather, unless it's very firm. In my experience basswood is superior for apex quality (having flat bevels that aren't convexed near the apex) when doing hundreds of passes.

[GarageBoy]

........

[Ankerson]

I sharpen on an Edge Pro using Congress Mold Master SIC stones, finish at 400 grit.

I don't have any issues with S110V or any steel that I have sharpened, and I can get S110V just as sharp as any other steel without any issues.

I personally don't see much of a difference, if any in sharpening S110v and other steels.

Just sharpened ANOTHER S110V Military for a guy the other day. That was reprofile and sharpen, didn't have to go below 320 grit to reprofile either.

Doesn't take long.... :spyder:

[Sharp Guy]

I sharpen on an Edge Pro using Congress Mold Master SIC stones, finish at 400 grit.

I don't have any issues with S110V or any steel that I have sharpened, and I can get S110V just as sharp as any other steel without any issues.

I personally don't see much of a difference, if any in sharpening S110v and other steels.

Just sharpened ANOTHER S110V Military for a guy the other day. That was reprofile and sharpen, didn't have to go below 320 grit to reprofile either.

Doesn't take long.... :spyder:

Jim, I'm curious...how much pressure do you use when reprofiling on your Edge Pro? The reason I ask is because it seems like it takes me a long time to reprofile steels like S110V when I was using the 240 grit Moldmaster. I finally ordered some 120 & 150 grit stones just to speed up the process. It even seems like Venev bonded diamonds take too long. Maybe I'm not applying enough pressure? I've always thought I should be letting the stones do the work.

[Ankerson]

I sharpen on an Edge Pro using Congress Mold Master SIC stones, finish at 400 grit.

I don't have any issues with S110V or any steel that I have sharpened, and I can get S110V just as sharp as any other steel without any issues.

I personally don't see much of a difference, if any in sharpening S110v and other steels.

Just sharpened ANOTHER S110V Military for a guy the other day. That was reprofile and sharpen, didn't have to go below 320 grit to reprofile either.

Doesn't take long.... :spyder:

Jim, I'm curious...how much pressure do you use when reprofiling on your Edge Pro? The reason I ask is because it seems like it takes me a long time to reprofile steels like S110V when I was using the 240 grit Moldmaster. I finally ordered some 120 & 150 grit stones just to speed up the process. It even seems like Venev bonded diamonds take too long. Maybe I'm not applying enough pressure? I've always thought I should be letting the stones do the work.

It's possible, I use ENOUGH pressure lets say, you can bare down on the stones.

That's the beauty of SIC....

[awa54]

I sharpen on an Edge Pro using Congress Mold Master SIC stones, finish at 400 grit.

I don't have any issues with S110V or any steel that I have sharpened, and I can get S110V just as sharp as any other steel without any issues.

I personally don't see much of a difference, if any in sharpening S110v and other steels.

Just sharpened ANOTHER S110V Military for a guy the other day. That was reprofile and sharpen, didn't have to go below 320 grit to reprofile either.

Doesn't take long.... :spyder:

Jim, I'm curious...how much pressure do you use when reprofiling on your Edge Pro? The reason I ask is because it seems like it takes me a long time to reprofile steels like S110V when I was using the 240 grit Moldmaster. I finally ordered some 120 & 150 grit stones just to speed up the process. It even seems like Venev bonded diamonds take too long. Maybe I'm not applying enough pressure? I've always thought I should be letting the stones do the work.

What grits do you have the Venev stones in? The 150 removes stock like a belt grinder (only slight hyperbole) on my Hapstone... I use light pressure, , just letting the stone float works, but nowhere near as fast. The 240 does a fairly good job on reprofiles too, but as expected the cut is a bit slower than the 150, still makes short work of even tough steels though.

[Sharp Guy]

I sharpen on an Edge Pro using Congress Mold Master SIC stones, finish at 400 grit.

I don't have any issues with S110V or any steel that I have sharpened, and I can get S110V just as sharp as any other steel without any issues.

I personally don't see much of a difference, if any in sharpening S110v and other steels.

Just sharpened ANOTHER S110V Military for a guy the other day. That was reprofile and sharpen, didn't have to go below 320 grit to reprofile either.

Doesn't take long.... :spyder:

Jim, I'm curious...how much pressure do you use when reprofiling on your Edge Pro? The reason I ask is because it seems like it takes me a long time to reprofile steels like S110V when I was using the 240 grit Moldmaster. I finally ordered some 120 & 150 grit stones just to speed up the process. It even seems like Venev bonded diamonds take too long. Maybe I'm not applying enough pressure? I've always thought I should be letting the stones do the work.

What grits do you have the Venev stones in? The 150 removes stock like a belt grinder (only slight hyperbole) on my Hapstone... I use light pressure, , just letting the stone float works, but nowhere near as fast. The 240 does a fairly good job on reprofiles too, but as expected the cut is a bit slower than the 150, still makes short work of even tough steels though.

F100 (XC), F240 (C), F400 (M), F800 (F), F1200 (EF), F2000 (UF)

I would say I use light pressure with the bonded diamonds. I'm not just letting the stone "float". Maybe I need just a little more pressure. We'll see what happens when I reprofile the Maxamet Native.

[awa54]

I would say I use light pressure with the bonded diamonds. I'm not just letting the stone "float". Maybe I need just a little more pressure. We'll see what happens when I reprofile the Maxamet Native.

I was amazed by how easy Maxamet is to cut with the Venev stones, if you aren't removing stock *quickly* with that 100 grit bonded diamond then you need a bit more pressure... Also use them wet, they cut slower and load a bit when run dry. Once I'm past the coarse stones to the 400 grit stone I lighten the pressure by a fair amount.

Note: when I'm not repairing edge damage or reprofiling a blade the starting grit is 400 and gets the lighter pressure as compared to the coarser stones.

It's hard to estimate force used on the stones, but I'd guess that On the coarse grits I'm somewhere between 8 oz. and 1 pound, depending on the steel and blade shape (?), maybe half that and less than half, for the medium grit and fine stones?

[Sharp Guy]

I would say I use light pressure with the bonded diamonds. I'm not just letting the stone "float". Maybe I need just a little more pressure. We'll see what happens when I reprofile the Maxamet Native.

...Also use them wet, they cut slower and load a bit when run dry.

I do use them wet.

Thanks for the input. I'll experiment with pressure soon. Other than a touch up here and there on the SM, there hasn't been much time for sharpening lately.

[Danvp]

1. Rebevel starting from 200 grid to 1000. After that some light stropping. Maintenance on the SM medium rods only.

2. Diamond stones. WE system for rebevel and SM for maintenance.

3. On 200 grid getting an apex first. I do not polish the bevels. Only carefully working my way up to a 1000 grid. What i read here is that a 1000 is even to high a grid to finish with.

4. EDC. Everything from cardbox to food or the occassional cut.

5. This is really stupid, but i like the feel of the steel. Maybe it is the combination of the steel and the ukpk. I like the way it cuts and find it easy to (re)sharpen. Not as tough to sharpen as many have stated. My sharpening nightmare is maxamet...

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

For those of you that feel s110v doesn't get as sticky as the easier to sharpen steels, I understand 100%. But I think if you left that blade clipped into your guided system all day and occasionally gave it a few more dozen strokes (on whatever you're finishing with, be it a stone or strop), totaling a seemingly unnecessary amount of passes/sharpening, you would finally attain something that would at least be somewhat close to what you can easily obtain with Cruwear or carbon steel. My best edges on s110v came from days where boredom struck and I had my stone nearby. Tons of patience and hundreds of passes later (if I felt I wasn't holding the angle perfectly I'd take a break), I'm pleasantly surprised with how the apex feels.

With that said, it's not really worth it. The great thing about high vanadium steels is that they have great edge retention at extremely coarse finishes. If you're stopping at 200-600 grit, total time spent sharpening isn't very long. Although I often carry a serrated knife, my PE s110v blades see a lot of rope and I usually leave a coarse edge on them. I can only imagine the apex magnified would almost look like a hack saw blade. If for some reason you want to take s110v to an extremely fine finish, prepare to put in the time. Ignore the finish on the bevel. If you feel the apex and its not sticky enough, you're not finished. You can't really skip grits much with this steel, and you MUST hold a steady angle. As soon as you think you're done, do a hundred more passes on the strop.

Oh, and i wouldn't recommend stropping on leather, unless it's very firm. In my experience basswood is superior for apex quality (having flat bevels that aren't convexed near the apex) when doing hundreds of passes.

Yep been reprofiling a S90V Millie down to 10 degrees, since around Thanksgiving.

Let me tell you that takes time, after finishing the first side using 100 grit Wicked Edge pro stones with the adapter rod for the Hapstone 7 (as they are better cutters than the bonded diamond or silicone stones after trying them) I decided to heck with it I will enjoy myself doing a little at a time.

When you are creating wide bevels at low angles you will discover the difference in this steel compared to lesser vanadium and other high carbide steels. S90V and S110V must take allot of supplies just to make a blade out of it!

Completely recommend the hapstone7 no reservations and the adapter to use Wicked Edge Pro stones is awesome. One thing though the WE Pro stones are magnetizable meaning the Hapstone7 magnet will pull the stone down with more force as you go over the portions of the blade closest to it. This takes a little getting used to.

[brainfriction]

I would say I use light pressure with the bonded diamonds. I'm not just letting the stone "float". Maybe I need just a little more pressure. We'll see what happens when I reprofile the Maxamet Native.

I was amazed by how easy Maxamet is to cut with the Venev stones, if you aren't removing stock *quickly* with that 100 grit bonded diamond then you need a bit more pressure... Also use them wet, they cut slower and load a bit when run dry. Once I'm past the coarse stones to the 400 grit stone I lighten the pressure by a fair amount.

Note: when I'm not repairing edge damage or reprofiling a blade the starting grit is 400 and gets the lighter pressure as compared to the coarser stones.

It's hard to estimate force used on the stones, but I'd guess that On the coarse grits I'm somewhere between 8 oz. and 1 pound, depending on the steel and blade shape (?), maybe half that and less than half, for the medium grit and fine stones?

I really like those Venev stones. Even just the 400 grit alone puts a really nice edge on s30v. Do you lap them too? I found they worked the best after lapping them on a glass plate with some 240 loose grit alum oxide.

[GarageBoy]

Does the coarse stone, stropped with diamond or honed on a Spyderco uf method work well for the other members of the sxxv family as well?

[Pelagic]

220 grit edge via DMT extra coarse + 2 passes per side with 3 micron diamond on wood. Treetops a few arm hairs in one pass, slices like a monster. Due for a regrind.