Why use a tough steel in a folding knife?

[vivi]

nevermind, people misinterpreted the question.

[Daveho]

Because people don’t actually use them to a point where these things actually matter-
For the most part it’s collecting Pokémon

[The Mastiff]

Why not use a tough steel in a folder if it also provides the other attributes you want. Often these steels do really well at other things besides toughness. The steels I prefer typically aren't in the stainless group . I don't value corrosion resistance and want a combination of high edge stability and decent abrasive wear resistance. 3V provides what I like in spades. So do a bunch of other steels. Does extra toughness make a steel less desirable? To me not any more than extra wear resistance.

Why do people need high corrosion resistance in a knife? I don't so anybody who does is wrong!

Joe

[vivi]

Why not use a tough steel in a folder if it also provides the other attributes you want. Often these steels do really well at other things besides toughness. The steels I prefer typically aren't in the stainless group . I don't value corrosion resistance and want a combination of high edge stability and decent abrasive wear resistance. 3V provides what I like in spades. So do a bunch of other steels. Does extra toughness make a steel less desirable? To me not any more than extra wear resistance.

Why do people need high corrosion resistance in a knife? I don't so anybody who does is wrong!

Joe

Prior to corrosion resistance being such a strong need of mine, I could picture situations where someone may need that property in a folder.

I can't picture situations where someone needs extra toughness in a folder, beyond what something like S30V provides.

Now, if a steel that does everything I want happens to be tough, like H1, that's cool. But I didn't pick that steel for toughness.

I'm wondering why people want toughness in particular for folding knife blades.

I chose S7 for my main chopper. I wouldn't want a folder made out of the stuff. There are other steels that take and hold a better edge for those uses, even if I'm limiting myself to non-stainless options.

[The Mastiff]

When someone says they need something I usually take them at their word. For sure if someone says they like something who am I to argue? In this case you seem to be focusing on one aspect and ignoring the others. If a steel is tough does this make it less desirable for whatever reason? Maybe but for a different reason. That S7 isn't my first or second or even third choice for a chopper much less a folding knife. The reasons I come to that opinion sure don't have anything to do with it's being too tough though.

Likewise if I choose 3V for a folder it wouldn't be because it is so tough. I have my reasons and I typically think things through before I make decisions. If they aren't the right decisions for someone else that's because I'm not making the decision for anyone except me and I'm not taking others needs into consideration. If I was I might make a different decision. Then again maybe not.

We all value the 3 main attributes of cutlery steel differently due to our own needs. For me to think I know what you need would be kinda stupid. At some point we accept others views as that. Or we can try to prove them wrong.

Joe

[vivi]

Joe,

respectfully, you and I are discussing different things here.

[Doc Dan]

Personally, I like having steels that are tough in tough folders. I have been known to wring a knife out. However, these steels usually have other attributes that I like. Take, for example, the K390 Urban LW. That is a weird paring on the surface. However, that steel has edge holding and sharpening attributes that I like. I will never chop down a tree with it! No way, Jose! But, it makes a great pocket knife steel in its own right.

[steelcity16]

Profits

[The Mastiff]

respectfully, you and I are discussing different things here.

Yeah. I think we were talking past each other.

Joe

[The Meat man]

I missed the OP's post, but my answer to the question is this:

I value toughness because a tough steel is usually less prone to damage, and generally what damage does happen is more easily repaired.

Toughness is a good thing. The opposite of toughness is brittle-ness.

[MacLaren]

When someone says they need something I usually take them at their word. For sure if someone says they like something who am I to argue? In this case you seem to be focusing on one aspect and ignoring the others. If a steel is tough does this make it less desirable for whatever reason? Maybe but for a different reason. That S7 isn't my first or second or even third choice for a chopper much less a folding knife. The reasons I come to that opinion sure don't have anything to do with it's being too tough though.

Likewise if I choose 3V for a folder it wouldn't be because it is so tough. I have my reasons and I typically think things through before I make decisions. If they aren't the right decisions for someone else that's because I'm not making the decision for anyone except me and I'm not taking others needs into consideration. If I was I might make a different decision. Then again maybe not.

We all value the 3 main attributes of cutlery steel differently due to our own needs. For me to think I know what you need would be kinda stupid. At some point we accept others views as that. Or we can try to prove them wrong.

Joe

At any rate, great post Joe.

[Evil D]

Well I guess I can't really answer whatever the original question was but for me it's really more about peace of mind, as I really don't do overly abusive things with ANY of my knives, not even fixed blades. I've also not had any major chipping issues with steels that people complain about being brittle or prone to chipping, at least not when properly sharpened. But, there are steels that I like for other reasons and when they also happen to be tough then that's great.


Now, when it comes to serrations I have a totally different mindset, I want the toughness steel available even at the cost of edge retention, because I don't want my teeth chipped or any chipping for that matter since it's much more difficult to fix a chip on a scallop than on a PE. Give me the toughest and easiest to sharpen steel for SE.

[steelcity16]

42% of respondents voted for Cruwear as the sprint for the Shaman, presumably because they wanted a "tough steel". Another 14% wanted 3V or 4V. So 56% of us want to see a tough steel in the Shaman. Similar results are seen in the Manix Backlock poll.

People use knives for many different reasons. Spyderco has amazing models and is it at the top of the metallurgical heap, so why wouldnt they churn out their big folding blades in tough steels to meet the demand? Who said that Spyderco should only make super slicers that can cut miles of cardboard or take an edge that can whittle hairs? That would be bad business to ignore a large market that you could easily cater to. The models are aleady made (Shaman, Native, Manix Backlock, Military, etc), the steels are readily available and they have used them in a few models already. This really seems like a no-brainer and I have to believe that they have a few in the works and are just remaining hush on them for any number of reasons.

[The Mastiff]

Way back when until the time Spyderco brought out the 440V powder steel Millie Cruwear ( back then called Vascowear ) and D2 were considered top of the heap for wear resistance. People said they were too difficult to grind into knives as well as too difficult for customers to sharpen . That was common knowledge then. Things have obviously changed and we now can point to real heavyweights like 10v and S110V and Maxamet. I still don't consider Cruwear or 3V lacking in wear resistance like some do. D2 either. Sure it's not got the carbides of 10V . It wouldn't be the same if it did.

There again I'm a guy that likes 52100, O-1 and even 5160 ( Buck 110) in folders.

Joe

[steelcity16]

Also, this isnt a totally foreign concept to Spyderco. They have done a tough steel folder. It was in 3V, and was called the TUFF. :D I never sought one out because the design doesnt appeal to me, but that doesnt mean I wouldn't buy any of their Golden-made folding knives in 3V. In fact, Id buy most, if not all of them. I think there are A LOT of others out there who passed on the TUFF who would buy a Millie, Manix Backlock, Manix XL, Manix 2, Shaman, Native, Native LW, PM2, etc in 3V and 4V and Cruwear in a New York minute. So I hope that slow sales of the TUFF isnt negatively affecting the decision making process on whether to do a sprint run with these steels. Hopefully these discussions and the recent Shaman and Manix polls will prove there is enough of a market to do some sprints, then see how sales and feedback are to decide whether to do more in this arena.

[me2]

I don't know if it's tough steels are chosen, or steels are chosen that also happen to be tough. I like H1 in plainedge for a EDC folder. It has properties of ease of sharpening, high sharpness easily attained, and high corrosion resistance. It also happens to be quite tough.

Why would one want a tough steel in a folder? Well, some people do things that require it with their folders. Some people are ham fisted and actually need some toughness in any knife they use. I've been sharpening a pencil and accidentally hit the edge on a steel railing near by. Cold steel makes some large folders and markers them for rough use. I'd put a tough steel there as well.

[bearfacedkiller]

I usually carry my Cruwear Military when I think I may inadvertently make contact with a hard object like a staple, nail or rock. I do not use my knives as pry bars and in general am a careful knife user but some times stuff happens. I find some steels handle those bumps into hard objects better than others.

[steelcity16]

I usually carry my Cruwear Military when I think I may inadvertently make contact with a hard object like a staple, nail or rock. I do not use my knives as pry bars and in general am a careful knife user but some times stuff happens. I find some steels handle those bumps into hard objects better than others.

I am the same way. I grab a Cruwear blade when I am going to be doing something where there is any chance of edge damage. Im not an accomplished sharperening guru so Id be afraid to put a chip in a steel like S110V that is notoriously hard to sharpen. I reserve those steels for opening packages, breaking down cardboard boxes, etc. My preferred EDC would be in a "tough" steel since I don't know what I will encounter on any given day. Unfortunately my preferred EDC model, the Native LW, doesnt come in any of theel steels that are thown into the tough steel group like Cruwear, 3V, 4V, 52100 or M4. The closest thing is an M4 Native in linerless G10. But id rather have a LW in each of the steels mentioned. Ill probably EDC the Native Salt quite a bit as Ive heard LC200N is decently tough. I hope they do a blacked out version of the Native Salt as well as that would be better for EDC than the yellow.

[curlyhairedboy]

I agree that tough steels are traditionally used in fixed blades meant for impact work like chopping. Generally, folders aren't built for repeated impact work and can experience deformation of various lock geometries. The blade steel can take it, but the rest of the folder can't (there are some exceptions).

However, the same properties that make a steel suitable for impact work are advantages in some cutting tasks. Heavy duty zip ties are a good example.

[dj moonbat]

Those big staples.