Why no steel strops?

[sal]

If I were to do it, I would design a steel triangle for the Sharpmaker. Very hard and highly polished with no grit".

I have taken John Juranich's "steels" and placed them in the groove of the triangles and used them that way. John Juranich, smart man.

sal

[MacLaren]

Sal Glesser, smart man.

[supracor]

Sharpening steels have been around a long time.
Even if the sharpening steel is the same hardness as the knife, they still work, just not as well.

I am trialing H13 steel with a nitrided surface, and tests are encouraging for me.
+-62 HRC hardness at the moment. :)

Never tried a CruClad of H13/15V? :D

[steelcity16]

I prefer rods that actually remove steel as opposed to just straightening out the apex.

Have you tried the F. DicK Multicut steel? It is what a lot of butchers use I guess. I bought one for my German kitchen knives and never looked back. I give all my kitchen knives a few quick swipes every single time I use them. The firmer the pressure the more steel you will remove. Or you can use light pressure to just realign the edge. I havent noticed any serious removal of steel in any of my knives using this steel a few times a day on them. And it keeps them razor sharp to where I never have to do a full sharpening. Ive never tried it on my Spydies, but Im sure I will at some point. But if you own Heckels or Wusthoff kitchen knives you cant go wrong with it.

[JD Spydo]

I'm actually getting away from leather strops.

Why?

There was a very in depth discussion about strops ( mainly leather) over at BF some time back ( around March) and they convinced me that stropping with leather didn't work as well as using something hard which is why this thread has piqued my interest. I've actually proven to have better luck using my German made F. Dick professional sharpening steels ( especially the highly polished "POLIRON" model).

I'm also going to check out two of the newest sharpening steels that F. Dick of Germany has recently put out. Now I'm always open minded >> because if anyone can tell me who makes better sharpening steels than F. Dick of Germany I would really like to try them out if they are indeed better. But as of now I haven't found anything better than the units they offer.

Even my cousin who is a Barber told me that "stropping" straight razors is completely different than stropping knives.

[brainfriction]

I've had mixed results with leather strops. I feel like they can do just as much bad as they can good if you're not careful. If I take a leather strop with green compound and free hand it, a lot of the time I get no noticeable improvement on the edge. However, if I use my leather strop plate on the Edge Pro with some 1 micron diamond compound it works really well. I can take a new PM2 that's really sharp out of the box, and make it stupid sharp with just a few passes on each side.

[sal]

FYI, I'm trying to make a steel triangle steel. Very hard, highly polished and no grit. It might take a while because it's a departure, but I'll keep you posted.

sal

[The Meat man]

FYI, I'm trying to make a steel triangle steel. Very hard, highly polished and no grit. It might take a while because it's a departure, but I'll keep you posted.

sal

Sal, you spoil us. :)

I'm very interested to see how this new idea works out.

[JD Spydo]

FYI, I'm trying to make a steel triangle steel. Very hard, highly polished and no grit. It might take a while because it's a departure, but I'll keep you posted.

As much as I love all my Spyderco sharpening gear I will be one of the first in line to get one of these sharpening steels. I find that interesting that you opt for a super-smooth type steel because I'm finding myself using my F. Dick Poliron sharpening steel (which is their super smooth steel) more than any of the others at this time. It's amazing the difference it makes to an already shave-sharp blade>> and it does make a difference>> I like it far better than leather or boar hide stropping. There are some tricks to using steels and the angle is critical for success.

OH by the way Mr. Glesser? Any word yet when we can get our hands on one of those GAUNTLET kits? I think many of us are anxiously waiting for that one.

[Bill1170]

Regarding polished sharpening steels, I have a friend who “steels” his fine edges with a bullnose wall tile. Same concept, different material.

[JD Spydo]

Regarding polished sharpening steels, I have a friend who “steels” his fine edges with a bullnose wall tile. Same concept, different material.

What is the tile made of? It's almost got to be ceramic? Another item I've used to "steel" or fine tune an edge was friend of mine who works in a power plant gave me some cylindric quartz bulbs which I believe are even harder than a lot of ceramic materials. I've used those quartz bulbs out of halogen light fixture and they did a super job of tuning up the edge. But since I got all my F. Dick German made steels back I just pretty much use them anymore. But it was amazing how that quartz bulb worked. It would be great in a survival situation.

Yeah ask your friend what those tiles are made of would you please???

[JacksonKnives]

FYI, I'm trying to make a steel triangle steel. Very hard, highly polished and no grit. It might take a while because it's a departure, but I'll keep you posted.

sal

How about sharp on one corner, for scraping, and progressively radiused on the other two?

There's a kitchen knife sharpening gizmo I've seen that uses carbide inserts on a pair of crossed angle-selecting supports. One edge is a sharp 90º, the other side is chamfered for milder action, and the flats are smooth for burnishing. In my limited experience with it and some Chicago Cutlery kitchen knives, the sharp edge can do some pretty serious stock removal, and leaves an edge that's quite sharp. The less aggressive surfaces weren't especially effective at refining that edge, but could be useful for touch-ups.

Not what I want to use on my harder knives, but for run of the mill kitchen knives it seems less random than free-handing a steel. Was actually quicker at restoring a severely damaged edge than a powered system.

[Bill1170]

Regarding polished sharpening steels, I have a friend who “steels” his fine edges with a bullnose wall tile. Same concept, different material.

What is the tile made of? It's almost got to be ceramic? Another item I've used to "steel" or fine tune an edge was friend of mine who works in a power plant gave me some cylindric quartz bulbs which I believe are even harder than a lot of ceramic materials. I've used those quartz bulbs out of halogen light fixture and they did a super job of tuning up the edge. But since I got all my F. Dick German made steels back I just pretty much use them anymore. But it was amazing how that quartz bulb worked. It would be great in a survival situation.

Yeah ask your friend what those tiles are made of would you please???

Hi JD,

The tile is standard ceramic wall tile with a very smooth glaze, like what was traditionally used for the walls of shower surrounds. Field tile 4-1/4” square, and surface bullnose for the perimeter at either 4-1/4” square, or 2” x 6”. The keys are 1) use the bullnose rounded edge, and 2) pick a tile without any texture, just flat and smooth. I imagine a glass laboratory stirring rod would work, too. Ceramic tile glaze is essentially a layer of glass fused on the surface. You want a rounded surface to get high pressure with low force.

[Water Bug]

My father gave me his Sears Craftsman Honesteel Sharpner, which I used to use a lot on my Buck 110 Folding Hunter and my Imperial Boy Scouts pocket knife in my early military years. Then I got the Spyderco Tri-Angle Sharpmaker and have used only that ever since. I have no reason not to use that Craftsman Honesteel Sharpner and this thread's got me wondering why not use it...

...I just found that Craftsman Honesteel Sharpner in a drawer ...Perhaps it's time to put it to use once again.

[JD Spydo]

My father gave me his Sears Craftsman Honesteel Sharpner, which I used to use a lot on my Buck 110 Folding Hunter and my Imperial Boy Scouts pocket knife in my early military years. Then I got the Spyderco Tri-Angle Sharpmaker and have used only that ever since. I have no reason not to use that Craftsman Honesteel Sharpner and this thread's got me wondering why not use it...

...I just found that Craftsman Honesteel Sharpner in a drawer ...Perhaps it's time to put it to use once again.

Hey check it out and see how it works compared to some of this new stuff. Because there is a lot of older sharpening tools that are still good by today's standards. I found one very old glossy black ARkansas Stone (novaculite) at a garage sale and it's the hardest Arkansas Stone I've ever used. It's great for finishing an already sharp edge.

Also going through some of my late dad & mom's stuff I found two really old butcher steels that seemed to work OK too. Also I've heard that those older Coticules (Belgian Razor Stones) are better than the newer ones you can get today. They say the old Barbers would insist on using those Belgian Razor Stones from years ago.

[Ed Schempp]

Steeling is a burnishing action for straightening a rolled or deformed edge. These work much better on Carbon steel and Stainless steels like H1 or VG 10. On stainless steels the flexing the edge back and forth an often lead to micro edge chipping that dulls the knife. A steel properly used should be done only as the pitch of the sound increases. When it quits increasing in pitch you should stop, probably two or maximimum 3 passes per side.
I made a cats eye steel for Sal years ago with a Spyderco rod by adding a handle and a rectangular guard. This tool worked to burnish the edge and being ceramic, polished the edge, This tool could be laid flat or on edge to lightly polish the edge of a knife.
You can use the bottom of a ceramic plate or the top of a car window in a pinch.

[phillipsted]

Keep in mind that sharpening steels and steel strops are two very different animals - that accomplish two very different objectives. Steel strops are smooth, like Sal proposes (the Cat's eye designs are my favorite, Sal! Wish I still had my original "Galley Vee" sharpener!) They are used only to realign and straighten the edge of a blade. They do not abrade or sharpen the blade - they simply realign the edge.

A true "sharpening steel" will have a non-smooth surface - typically with grooves or other surface treatment. The goal of these devices is to actually abrade the blade steel and sharpen the edge. Depending on how these sharpening steels are manufactured (type of abrasive, hardness, etc), they will work usually more slowly than a quality stone. I haven't used one in a while - but I have an old Buck sharpening steel that has a rough grooved surface and comes in a leather sheath. It was marketed as a way to get a quick sharpening while camping or hiking.

TedP

[sal]

Hi Ted,

Galley V is going back into production very soon. New tooling and a 20 degree inclusive angle.

sal

[Jazz]

Sharpening steels don’t abrade, they straighten and burnish.

[JD Spydo]

Keep in mind that sharpening steels and steel strops are two very different animals - that accomplish two very different objectives. Steel strops are smooth, like Sal proposes (the Cat's eye designs are my favorite, Sal! Wish I still had my original "Galley Vee" sharpener!) They are used only to realign and straighten the edge of a blade. They do not abrade or sharpen the blade - they simply realign the edge.

A true "sharpening steel" will have a non-smooth surface - typically with grooves or other surface treatment. The goal of these devices is to actually abrade the blade steel and sharpen the edge. Depending on how these sharpening steels are manufactured (type of abrasive, hardness, etc), they will work usually more slowly than a quality stone. I haven't used one in a while - but I have an old Buck sharpening steel that has a rough grooved surface and comes in a leather sheath. It was marketed as a way to get a quick sharpening while camping or hiking.

TedP

Extremely interesting post TED :) However I'm just slightly confused by one thing you said. You say that a "Steel Strop" and a sharpening Steel are two different animals :confused: ? OK let me ask you this >> I have one of the F. Dick "Poliron" sharpening steels which is made of extremely hard steel (68 Rockwell) and that Poliron model is super smooth. So what's the difference between those two? What would a smooth steel strop do different than that F. Dick "Poliron" steel I just mentioned?

I'm so glad you mentioned the old GALLEY V kit>> I still have my old GALLEY V kit ( late 90s edition) along with 6 extra stones they sold me at the time. I find the kit and the stones to be quite a valuable tool to have around for all kinds of irregular sharpening jobs. I also have one of those pocket sized, folding Buck sharpening steels you mentioned. Actually it's one tool I never could figure out what it was really good for? I rarely ever use it and keep it as a conversation piece mostly but I hardly ever get rid of any sharpening tools at all. And the pile is getting big too :D

Those "Cat's Eye" stones that came with that GALLEY V kit are awesome and those stones are about the only thing I use to sharpen my Dodo models. It works really good on the Cricket model too. I'm looking forward to the new GALLEY V>> however I'm wondering if the GAUNTLET system is ever going to be made available to us :confused: :confused: I really love these sharpening threads because there are always unique posts like the one you gave us. It's great when Sal announces stuff because it does give him a perfect time and place to do it.