Very DISAPPOINTED w/ laminated steel sprint runs

[SpyderScout]

General observation: Wanting ruler straight lamination lines is an odd thing to wish for.
Sort of defeats some of the purpose.
Part of owning a laminated knife is the flowing line and the different steels 'crowding' each other.
I bought the V-Tuko2 expecting the flow of the lines and like the lamination line in other knives as well as in this latest fixed blade arrival;

[anycal]

Other than slight amusement, not sure why I am replying since I don't really care. But folks keep going in circles here.

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General observation: Wanting ruler straight lamination lines is an odd thing to wish for.
Sort of defeats some of the purpose.
Part of owning a laminated knife is the flowing line and the different steels 'crowding' each other.
I bought the V-Tuko2 expecting the flow of the lines and like the lamination line in other knives as well as in this latest fixed blade arrival;

That is not what this is about. Nobody is expecting straight lamination lines. We are talking about one side being at a normal height from the edge (~4mm), while the other side is right on top of the edge (~1mm or touching)

Isn't this like complaining about the wavy lines on a Damascus blade?? Not to ruffle feathers or anything, but this is an expected trait of lamination/cladding for blades...

If the blade lamination was separating from each other then I could see an issue! But these lines are expected and give you an opportunity to talk about your hobby with others...When someone sees and asks "what is that" you can explain. As far as to even say that no two are alike!

It is not. OP's complaint isn't about wavy lines. It is about unevenness of one side compared to the other; height of one side compared to the other.

[Deadboxhero]

General observation: Wanting ruler straight lamination lines is an odd thing to wish for.
Sort of defeats some of the purpose.
Part of owning a laminated knife is the flowing line and the different steels 'crowding' each other.
I bought the V-Tuko2 expecting the flow of the lines and like the lamination line in other knives as well as in this latest fixed blade arrival;

Forge wielded knives will have a "wavy" line from the hammer blows.
Pre laminated steel from the factory will have a straight line.
Pre laminated steels can be hand forged and get a wavy a line too

[ZrowsN1s]

... Nobody is expecting straight lamination lines. We are talking about one side being at a normal height from the edge (~4mm), while the other side is right on top of the edge (~1mm or touching).....

Exactly. I love my knife, I'm keeping it, I've already put it to work and performance wise there are no issues. But on this run in regard to the lam lines, cosmetically.... I've seen better (I have 5 laminated spydies that don't have this issue, none are perfectly even, but this run seem particularly lopsided). Here's that pic again for a reference of what people are talking about.

[Sumdumguy]

... Nobody is expecting straight lamination lines. We are talking about one side being at a normal height from the edge (~4mm), while the other side is right on top of the edge (~1mm or touching).....

Exactly. I love my knife, I'm keeping it, I've already put it to work and performance wise there are no issues. But on this run in regard to the lam lines, cosmetically.... I've seen better (I have 5 laminated spydies that don't have this issue, none are perfectly even, but this run seem particularly lopsided). Here's that pic again for a reference of what people are talking about.

Yikes, those are some pretty loose tolerances!

[bearfacedkiller]

If I am informed correctly when this steel is manufactured it is initially much thicker and is rolled down to close to the thickness used for blades. If I am incorrect please correct me.

Try making a peanut butter sandwich and then taking a rolling pin and rolling it out until it is 1/3 of its original thickness and see if you end up with three even layers. Most likely you will not.

I am not excusing the ones that are exceptionally bad but to expect three perfectly even layers is asking a lot. Add to that the steep grinds on a ffg and you are not likely to see perfectly even lamination lines.

I personally would have returned that HAP40 Wharncliffe that zeros posted. That is a little much for me but I expect them to be a little uneven. None of my seven or so laminated blades is that off but none are symmetrical either.

[awa54]

Ironically, I have a few very budget oriented Scandinavian blades that show perfectly even lamination geometry, but they're thicker than the Japanese Spyderco blades, have simpler geometry (no distal taper and Scandi grind) and are all HC steel as opposed to stainless/HC.

My guess is that it only takes a few hundredths of a millimeter of variance in the core alignment to cause a noticeable irregularity in a perfectly ground blade, now add a few thousandth of error in the grind and the badly off-pattern blades appear...

While I have no problem with the organic look of a cosmetically flawed lamination, I do think that any blades that have cladding run to the ground edge should be rejected (before assembly!). If there's a *question* of there being enough core steel to fully fill the edged area of the blade, then it isn't enough.

All that said, I stand by my previous statement that if you want an $85 knife that features exotic laminate steel, you need to accept that it's going to be made to a moderate QC standard compared to a $300 piece.

**When I say "fill" I mean "align to"... if the core steel really is twisted in relation to the blank, or the blade has been ground so poorly that the edge geometry doesn't center the core material in relation to the primary bevel, then you could potentially wind up with a sharpened edge that isn't solid core steel, or might have a thin enough slice of it that it's weak compared to a well centered core.**

[FCM415]

My DFly HAP40 has that slightly annoying extreme uneven line. One side being fine, the other side hugging the edge.

It was pre 30% MAP so it was an ok buy.

Now. No.

[Hangfire]

Very disappointed as well... I purchased TWO of the V-TOKU2 Enduras and BOTH have inconsistent lamination lines, large on one side and very small or nonexistent on the other. Unfortunately I'll be sending both back. For close to $100.00 each, Spyderco should be able to deliver uniform lamination for these knives.

(Please don't get me wrong... I've been carrying and collecting Spyderco knives since the early 90's and they are the ONLY knives that I do collect. I love Spyderco knives, I was just expecting more.)

[mattman]

People complaining about uneven lamination lines need to step back and do some research in two areas:

1. Steel production processes (particularly rolling mills, and the H.I.P. process.
2. Geometry (particularly full-flat grinds with a distal taper)

Then come back here and explain your position that Spyderco could manufacture laminated blades with much more consistency at any price.

I'll be here, but I won't be holding my breath.

Please keep bringing the cool stuff, Spyderco!

[RickC27]

I think the whining is coming from those that just sit there and stare at their knives and never actually use them for anything. As I posted on page 1 or 2 with pics...once you actually use the knife, you forget all about the uneven lines and appreciate the knife and it's steel for what it is!

[Bloke]

If you take into account tolerances, at say +/- 0.001” on the two cladding sheets and core the core could be sitting 0.003” off centre. Add to that what ever tolerance +/- degrees in the blades full flat grind and further compound the lot with the +/- tolerance in the distal taper and we end up with a fair bit of accumulative error even without taking the effect of heat treatment into account. :eek:

Personally I’m surprised any of the lamination lines are anywhere near even.

[RickC27]

Bloke, you're not supposed to be here to be serious ☺

[chrisjohn]

I can't believe how people complain. Send the knife back and think up something else to whine about.

[Hangfire]

(Please don't get me wrong... I've been carrying and collecting Spyderco knives since the early 90's and they are the ONLY knives that I do collect. I love Spyderco knives, I was just expecting more. (My Hap40's and Hitachi Super Blues are fine!)

btw... I'm NOT whining, this is a voluntary transaction in a free market. Both parties should be satisfied for it to work. I'm not happy that one side of the V-Toku2 lamination does not make it to the tip of the knife and I'll return it. Maybe someone else will be happy with it, I'm not, period.

[Surfingringo]

People complaining about uneven lamination lines need to step back and do some research in two areas:

1. Steel production processes (particularly rolling mills, and the H.I.P. process.
2. Geometry (particularly full-flat grinds with a distal taper)

Then come back here and explain your position that Spyderco could manufacture laminated blades with much more consistency at any price.

I'll be here, but I won't be holding my breath.

Please keep bringing the cool stuff, Spyderco!

If you take into account tolerances, at say +/- 0.001” on the two cladding sheets and core the core could be sitting 0.003” off centre. Add to that what ever tolerance +/- degrees in the blades full flat grind and further compound the lot with the +/- tolerance in the distal taper and we end up with a fair bit of accumulative error even without taking the effect of heat treatment into account. :eek:

Personally I’m surprised any of the lamination lines are anywhere near even.

These two responses sum up my thoughts on the subject. Thank you both for saving me the time.

[Bloke]

Bloke, you're not supposed to be here to be serious ☺

[MichaelScott]

As has been clearly pointed out, producing a reasonably priced ffg laminated knife blade with near perfect, even in the neighborhood of symmetrical, is excruciatingly difficult. One can accept the result or return it as unsatisfactory. I think the OP just wanted to vent his dissatisfaction and in so doing seemed to slam Spyderco and anyone who offered well meant advice.

We’ve all done something a bit similar in our lives, certainly I have. I hope Trackstar555 sticks around and becomes a regular contributor. I believe he would have a lot of significant things to add.

[Bodog]

Nothing seems wrong with these lamination lines to me as most shown don't seem to impair or threaten to impair function and the cost is very reasonable for these knives. But who am i to judge what is acceptable to someone else? We all live in glass houses...

[ZrowsN1s]

....
Then come back here and explain your position that Spyderco could manufacture laminated blades with much more consistency....
Please keep bringing the cool stuff, Spyderco!

I hear you. I hope no one thinks I'm making too big a deal out of this. I love the knife. I too hope they keep bringing the cool stuff, in particular I'd love to see a Vtoku version (a PE Vtoku hawkbill too!) This isn't going to keep me from buying Laminated knives in the future, and it didn't keep me from using and enjoying this one.
...but to answer your statement, I know Spyderco could do better, because I have several laminated knives from them that are better. It's not the end of the world, I'm not sending it back, but Im also not going to deny that the lines are wonky beyond what I would consider normal (in my experience) from a Spyderco laminated steel. Just trying to empathize with OP instead of tellng him to get over it.