Spyderco Hatchet

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
Bodog
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Re: Spyderco Hatchet

Postby Bodog » Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:01 am

Was going to forward these to you privately Sal.

It came sealed in plastic from the dealer. Don't think it had anything to do with them. Makers marks on both sides are washed out. Someone tried to fit the handle or something by gouging at it with a knife. There are scratches on the head from whatever they attempted to do. At the butt of the handle it looks like someone carved on it too and dropped it at some point.

I can't and won't believe that you'd find that acceptable, especially how much work you guys put into making this project happen. For a $175 hatchet that's not what a customer should expect.

I sent an email to you that wasn't responded to so that it wouldn't really come out in public, instead it was publicly suggested that other companies should be considered. Instead of being accused of being too picky, I'd rather just post the pictures and walk away from the issue.

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Re: Spyderco Hatchet

Postby Bodog » Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:46 pm

I guess the pictures i posted show that I'm exaggerating or that no one cares. Haven't heard anything since i posted them.

Maybe I expected too much from the most expensive mass produced hatchet on the market?

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sal
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Re: Spyderco Hatchet

Postby sal » Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:51 pm

Hi Bodog,

I don't think it's either. It's a brand new model from a brand new maker in America that has never made anything like it. The project took 5 years to go from conception to production. Designs and samples going back and forth from the US to Germany. Trips to Wacama and meeting and conference calls to get here. They have committed to give this their best effort, and I believe they are doing it. I'd like to keep this USA made tool in the line for years.

It has been a major project for us for long time. We're not ready to dismiss the model based on your decision. I've thrown one for hours. It's a nice tool. Martin Genzou did, in my opinion, a very good job in the design, Spyderco and our maker did a good job making it. Many prototypes have been built and tested to get here.

You received your tool, evaluated it in a short time, decided it wasn't worth the money paid and sent it back to the dealer....all in one day. That's OK, that's your choice and your value system.

I don't know that anyone else has even received one. How can they comment on your decision before they even handle one, use it, carry it, live with it. No one can agree or disagree with you. Patience my friend.

sal

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Re: Spyderco Hatchet

Postby Bodog » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:34 pm

sal wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:51 pm
Hi Bodog,

I don't think it's either. It's a brand new model from a brand new maker in America that has never made anything like it. The project took 5 years to go from conception to production. Designs and samples going back and forth from the US to Germany. Trips to Wacama and meeting and conference calls to get here. They have committed to give this their best effort, and I believe they are doing it. I'd like to keep this USA made tool in the line for years.

It has been a major project for us for long time. We're not ready to dismiss the model based on your decision. I've thrown one for hours. It's a nice tool. Martin Genzou did, in my opinion, a very good job in the design, Spyderco and our maker did a good job making it. Many prototypes have been built and tested to get here.

You received your tool, evaluated it in a short time, decided it wasn't worth the money paid and sent it back to the dealer....all in one day. That's OK, that's your choice and your value system.

I don't know that anyone else has even received one. How can they comment on your decision before they even handle one, use it, carry it, live with it. No one can agree or disagree with you. Patience my friend.

sal
I would agree completely with you Sal, if basic questions were answered. We don't really even know where the hatchet was made or who may have mess up what i showed earlier. I didn't say anything functional was off. There's no way i could have known that. I said the finishing was messed up. Who messed that up is unknown. I agree, the design is very much in line with what i want. Has been from the first pictures Mr. Blonde posted.

But please, sir, tell me. You said you bought many hawks preparing for this project. Had you paid $175 and received a hawk with scars and scratches and divots all over it, would you be happy? If you did and you recognized that the cosmetic stuff didn't matter that much because you were going to beat the hell out of it yourself, but you couldn't get a straight answer about what was what with the hawk, would that sit right with you? If you couldn't get any straight answer about even if the hammer poll was hardened at all or if the bit was hardened to some 55RC and the hammer hardened to 52RC and the eye was left unhardened? Would you feel comfortable wailing on it and telling the world how good it is and why it's better than a Gransfor Bruk for $70 less or a Vaughan for $130 less?


All i asked was for you to give us ammo to advertise your product for you. At this point it's one big question mark with some fairly bad cosmetic flaws at a price that's pretty high comparatively. I asked for you to alleviate the question mark so we can educate people about why it's worth buying. Nothing more.

I put my money where my mouth is and bought a USA made spyderco product and can't get a solid answer about things that should be known. And when I receive it it has a lot of workmanship flaws. I didn't expect that at all. And then i get told to look at buying something from your competition if i don't like it. That's not right, Sal. Sincerely and respectfully, i expect more from you and your company. I don't mean that as an insult. I mean only to show that the design is good, the approach is not. You're a standup man. Someone to respect. I do anyway. This isn't satisfactory.

PS: I very much did not want to do this publicly.
Last edited by Bodog on Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sumdumguy
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Re: Spyderco Hatchet

Postby Sumdumguy » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:43 pm

Bodog, we understand you were unhappy with the product. You sent it back, it's over. Why do you still go on?

It feels like you are looking for a reason to complain because you didn't get the answer you were looking for.

If it is causing you this much distress, may I suggest the door?

Bodog
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Re: Spyderco Hatchet

Postby Bodog » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:56 pm

Sumdumguy wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:43 pm
Bodog, we understand you were unhappy with the product. You sent it back, it's over. Why do you still go on?

It feels like you are looking for a reason to complain because you didn't get the answer you were looking for.

If it is causing you this much distress, may I suggest the door?
Trust me, i thought about it. I wanted to show Sal privately via email or whatever he wanted, he seems to want to discuss this publicly. Yes. It does bother me. Had it been some random company i wouldn't care anywhere near as much. Sal seems to honestly care so i try my best to give genuine feedback as a customer. Do you think i want to be subject to the judgement of people on any forum? I've had plenty if that and it's tiresome. I wanted Sal to know true thoughts from a customer that respects him and what he's built. Nothing more.

All he has to say is that it's the same as most other companies. No one really cares unless it puts money on the table. I've never once thought that about Sal. Some of his employees, maybe, but not him. Nonetheless, if he said that then it would be hard to be invested enough to give honest feedback in the face of many who don't want to hear it.

Wright.88
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Re: Spyderco Hatchet

Postby Wright.88 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:53 pm

Bodog wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:56 pm
Sumdumguy wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:43 pm
Bodog, we understand you were unhappy with the product. You sent it back, it's over. Why do you still go on?

It feels like you are looking for a reason to complain because you didn't get the answer you were looking for.

If it is causing you this much distress, may I suggest the door?
Trust me, i thought about it. I wanted to show Sal privately via email or whatever he wanted, he seems to want to discuss this publicly. Yes. It does bother me. Had it been some random company i wouldn't care anywhere near as much. Sal seems to honestly care so i try my best to give genuine feedback as a customer. Do you think i want to be subject to the judgement of people on any forum? I've had plenty if that and it's tiresome. I wanted Sal to know true thoughts from a customer that respects him and what he's built. Nothing more.

All he has to say is that it's the same as most other companies. No one really cares unless it puts money on the table. I've never once thought that about Sal. Some of his employees, maybe, but not him. Nonetheless, if he said that then it would be hard to be invested enough to give honest feedback in the face of many who don't want to hear it.

The hatchet you bought looks like it has cosmetic issues. Obviously most of us wouldn’t be happy with that. If it were me I would try to exchange it, not go on a rant on the forum. You want heat treat info and Sal has said he doesn’t want to publicize it. Not sure why you keep asking about it when you’ve gotten an answer already...

I’m still planning on getting one of these soon.

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Re: Spyderco Hatchet

Postby Spyderman91 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:06 pm

I can feel your frustration Bodog, I think we all work hard for our money and personally I was also excited for this release.
The only other hatchet I can see that would compare to this would be the Cudeman axe: https://www.amazon.com/Cudeman-TONKA-Hu ... dpSrc=srch

Which is something I've also had my eye on, but the Hatchethawk seems like it would be more useful with the hammer on the back. Sorry it came blemished that is always annoying, but the folks at Spyderco and most knife distributors are good people. I'm sure if you reached out to them for an exchange they would be more than willing to accommodate. Knifecenter even takes special requests before they ship out an item to ensure the upmost customer satisfaction.

I do agree at the price point, and where it is made (the good old USA) it shouldn't arrive that way. Exchange and try again, or like Sal there are other options but I think this example maybe an outlier than a norm. Only time will tell as more users get the axe in their hands, unfortunately for me I live in the city and don't have much use for an axe atm.

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Re: Spyderco Hatchet

Postby Slash » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:48 pm

Isn't the head supposed to dig into the handle at least somewhat? If not wouldn't it fly off?
Most expensive mass produced at $175? No, I personally own 3 hawks/hatchets that cost well over that.
Don't think this would be my go to tool at $175 for roofing/siding cedar shakes. But, I would sure look cool doing it and get some looks in awe from my co-workers.

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Re: Spyderco Hatchet

Postby Bodog » Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:30 pm

Slash wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:48 pm
Isn't the head supposed to dig into the handle at least somewhat? If not wouldn't it fly off?
Most expensive mass produced at $175? No, I personally own 3 hawks/hatchets that cost well over that.
Don't think this would be my go to tool at $175 for roofing/siding cedar shakes. But, I would sure look cool doing it and get some looks in awe from my co-workers.
What mass produced hatchet costs over 175? That's just my curiosity speaking.

I'm curious if there are any hatchets that are floating around that fill the same niche as this one because i haven't seen any. Not that should be taken seriously anyway. There are some very fine niche tools out there but none that i can see that fills the tool role while simultaneously filling the zombie apocalypse need at the same time.

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Re: Spyderco Hatchet

Postby Slash » Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:57 pm

Bodog wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:30 pm
Slash wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:48 pm
Isn't the head supposed to dig into the handle at least somewhat? If not wouldn't it fly off?
Most expensive mass produced at $175? No, I personally own 3 hawks/hatchets that cost well over that.
Don't think this would be my go to tool at $175 for roofing/siding cedar shakes. But, I would sure look cool doing it and get some looks in awe from my co-workers.
What mass produced hatchet costs over 175? That's just my curiosity speaking.

I'm curious if there are any hatchets that are floating around that fill the same niche as this one because i haven't seen any. Not that should be taken seriously anyway. There are some very fine niche tools out there but none that i can see that fills the tool role while simultaneously filling the zombie apocalypse need at the same time.
anything that was or is available should and would be consider mass produced.
Have a zero tolerance hawk/rescue tool in my vehicle right now. Can't remember exactly what I paid for it. But, pretty sure it was more than $300. Hogue is pretty sweet. Has interchangeable tools depending on your needs. RMJ gonna cost a pretty penny as well. Just naming a few of my personal collection. So, not to feed a troll and as much as I hate using the term and really would like to think that you're not considering you have in your mind a legitimate concern and opinion. I can understand spending $175 and not getting a show piece and what not. For some throwing down that amount of $ is quite considerable.
Ask yourself this. What do you intend to use the hatchet for?
Will it perform as it should in doing so?

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Crux
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Re: Spyderco Hatchet

Postby Crux » Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:59 pm

I do like it but I was hoping for a slightly larger head.
Attachments
HatchetHawk_.jpg
Can you find it and can it cut? :eek:

SF Native
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Re: Spyderco Hatchet

Postby SF Native » Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:04 am

Bodog, I’m sorry you got a mangled hatchet. That sucks after waiting for it for a long time. But I think you need to be more reasonable on some of this stuff. I looked up the gransfor bruk and Vaughan axes you mentioned. Vaughan doesn’t seem to publish anything about the steel used or the hardness if heat treat. Gransfors has a 40 page book, which is quite impressive and it does say that it’s heat treated to rc57. But it doesn’t say what kind of steel it is other than it’s forged. That book comes with all of their axes no matter what model. If it’s a splitting ax or a carpentry ax, it’s made the same acccording to this book. Seems silly to not heat treat a little different for different models, but there you go.
Shouldn’t we hold Sal and Co to the same standard? Sal at least states what kind of steel it is.

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Ookami
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Re: Spyderco Hatchet

Postby Ookami » Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:22 am

Bodog wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:34 pm

I would agree completely with you Sal, if basic questions were answered. We don't really even know where the hatchet was made [...] I didn't say anything functional was off. There's no way i could have known that. I said the finishing was messed up. Who messed that up is unknown. I agree, the design is very much in line with what i want. Has been from the first pictures Mr. Blonde posted.

[...] If you couldn't get any straight answer about even if the hammer poll was hardened at all [...]

I put my money where my mouth is and bought a USA made spyderco product and can't get a solid answer about things that should be known. [...]

PS: I very much did not want to do this publicly.
I am quite troubled by your 'vocal' postings, I have to say. Nevertheless, I'll adhere to the shiny footprints policy on the forums. Since you are a fan of basic questions, I'll put some basic questions to you, that you may answer only to yourself as you are not big on going public.

1) How many companies do you know (or even patronize) whose CEO takes time out of his busy day to communicate personally with his customers? On a related note, do you think that a few hours (over the weekend of all things) is a realistic response time to an email considering that a CEO might get more than a few emails every day?

2) Should a maker feel compelled to answer any and all questions regarding his product? Does Spyderco usually give out heat treatment information on all of their knives? Do people refrain from buying from W.R. Case & Sons, because they use a proprietary steel designation with unknown HRC values? Considering that your life may actually depend on it, do you know the heat treatment on the axle of your car? Would the maker be willing to tell?

3) Have not all of the questions been addressed in the thread to some degree? Have you not received the information that edge and hammer poll are hardened? Have you not read testimony of people who have tested the product quite extensively? Do you really not know where it is made when it says "Waccamaw" on the side of the head? Have you not yourself spelled out the name of the axe maker (as well as the steel, I might add) in this very thread?

4) Wouldn't it have been more prudent to give the dealer or the Spyderco warranty department a chance of returning a flawless product before making a fuss on the forum? Wouldn't it have been more in line with your willingness to not go public to give at least 3-5 working days for Sal to respond to your email? How is Sal supposed to reply if you put him on the spot like that? Should he have entered a heated exchange on the forums with a customer instead of expressing his regret?

Just asking.

Ookami

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Re: Spyderco Hatchet

Postby Bodog » Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:40 am

Ookami wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:22 am
Bodog wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:34 pm

I would agree completely with you Sal, if basic questions were answered. We don't really even know where the hatchet was made [...] I didn't say anything functional was off. There's no way i could have known that. I said the finishing was messed up. Who messed that up is unknown. I agree, the design is very much in line with what i want. Has been from the first pictures Mr. Blonde posted.

[...] If you couldn't get any straight answer about even if the hammer poll was hardened at all [...]

I put my money where my mouth is and bought a USA made spyderco product and can't get a solid answer about things that should be known. [...]

PS: I very much did not want to do this publicly.
I am quite troubled by your 'vocal' postings, I have to say. Nevertheless, I'll adhere to the shiny footprints policy on the forums. Since you are a fan of basic questions, I'll put some basic questions to you, that you may answer only to yourself as you are not big on going public.

1) How many companies do you know (or even patronize) whose CEO takes time out of his busy day to communicate personally with his customers? On a related note, do you think that a few hours (over the weekend of all things) is a realistic response time to an email considering that a CEO might get more than a few emails every day?

2) Should a maker feel compelled to answer any and all questions regarding his product? Does Spyderco usually give out heat treatment information on all of their knives? Do people refrain from buying from W.R. Case & Sons, because they use a proprietary steel designation with unknown HRC values? Considering that your life may actually depend on it, do you know the heat treatment on the axle of your car? Would the maker be willing to tell?

3) Have not all of the questions been addressed in the thread to some degree? Have you not received the information that edge and hammer poll are hardened? Have you not read testimony of people who have tested the product quite extensively? Do you really not know where it is made when it says "Waccamaw" on the side of the head? Have you not yourself spelled out the name of the axe maker (as well as the steel, I might add) in this very thread?

4) Wouldn't it have been more prudent to give the dealer or the Spyderco warranty department a chance of returning a flawless product before making a fuss on the forum? Wouldn't it have been more in line with your willingness to not go public to give at least 3-5 working days for Sal to respond to your email? How is Sal supposed to reply if you put him on the spot like that? Should he have entered a heated exchange on the forums with a customer instead of expressing his regret?

Just asking.

Ookami
Ookami
Very fair questions. No offense taken at all and i have to say i very much like your design.

1) How many companies do you know (or even patronize) whose CEO takes time out of his busy day to communicate personally with his customers? On a related note, do you think that a few hours (over the weekend of all things) is a realistic response time to an email considering that a CEO might get more than a few emails every day?

None. That's why i know Sal cares enough to hear this. He answered specifically in public after i said I'd sent an email about this.

2) Should a maker feel compelled to answer any and all questions regarding his product?

No, unless he wants customers to understand why his product is better. Ford talks about bigger and stronger frame bolts. Dodge talks about their hemi. It's on display for anyone who wants to check.


Does Spyderco usually give out heat treatment information on all of their knives?

Sometimes. They've even been called to the mat several times and had to redo what they produced, such as the cruwear mule team blade.

Do people refrain from buying from W.R. Case & Sons, because they use a proprietary steel designation with unknown HRC values?

Don't know if that helps or hurts them. Many companies say why their product is better and even showd their testing for whatever that's worth.

Considering that your life may actually depend on it, do you know the heat treatment on the axle of your car?

No, but you can bet there'a going to be a lot of people suing them if they got it wrong. Not to mention there are tons of regulations within auto manufacturing that likely dictate what quality assurance means and where materials are sourced from.

Would the maker be willing to tell?

To people with legal authority to check, yes. And many companies do share what makes their product better, auto manufacturer or not.

3) Have not all of the questions been addressed in the thread to some degree?

No.

Have you not received the information that edge and hammer poll are hardened?

No.

Have you not read testimony of people who have tested the product quite extensively?

Saying they've been tested extensively and showing what was tested and how are different things entirely.

Do you really not know where it is made when it says "Waccamaw" on the side of the head?

Mine does not clearly show that as shown in my pictures.

Have you not yourself spelled out the name of the axe maker (as well as the steel, I might add) in this very thread?

I've assumed but it hasn't been confirmed by anyone. Nor has it been confirmed who heat treated the head, what the goal was, who put it to the grinder, or who fit the axe together.

4) Wouldn't it have been more prudent to give the dealer or the Spyderco warranty department a chance of returning a flawless product before making a fuss on the forum?

I tried but at least one person strongly insinuated that i wasn't being wholly forthcoming. I really just wanted some answers to advertise on behalf of spyderco.

Wouldn't it have been more in line with your willingness to not go public to give at least 3-5 working days for Sal to respond to your email?

Yes. I tried. When the owner of Spyderco started responding in a public forum even after he was made awarw that the concerned party wanted to handle it privately, then the concerned party obliged.

How is Sal supposed to reply if you put him on the spot like that?

Gotta ask Sal that.

Should he have entered a heated exchange on the forums with a customer instead of expressing his regret?

Can't answer that either. He answered as a man of class. I hope i asked with as much class as his answers contained. I doubt i did but i tried.
Last edited by Bodog on Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:57 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Ookami
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Re: Spyderco Hatchet

Postby Ookami » Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:47 am

Ookami wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:55 pm
The poll is definitely hardened.
Just for the record.


Ookami

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Crux
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Re: Spyderco Hatchet

Postby Crux » Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:24 am

After reviewing the pictures you posted I suspect, but don't know, that you received a counterfeit hatchet. I've only been a Spyderco junkie for 2 years or so but I've never seen anything shipped from Spyderco (or their dealers) that has even come close to what those pictures show.

I also know for a fact that Spyderco will make things right if they are at fault. It's the reason that Spyderco is ranked #1 knife company in the world for many years. It's also the reason I abandoned all others for Spyderco.

Have faith.
Can you find it and can it cut? :eek:

BornIn1500
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Re: Spyderco Hatchet

Postby BornIn1500 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:56 am

Crux wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:24 am
After reviewing the pictures you posted I suspect, but don't know, that you received a counterfeit hatchet.

The hatchet is on the cusp of being delivered for the very first time. Surely no counterfeit hatchets exist for this.

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sal
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Re: Spyderco Hatchet

Postby sal » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:43 am

Hi Bodog,

I said I was sorry for your disappointment, and I am. I am also working a show right now (on-the-road) and still bothered to try to communicate with you. I generally don't give out heat treat info. I will sometimes give Rc, but not method. I didn't say we bought many hatchets, we built many hatchets and I assure you that they each cost much more than you would think. The designer ( Ookami ) has worked with us patiently for a long time.
The maker has had a hard time getting the finish like our knives. They just haven't had to deal with that on their normal products and we've come long way since beginning. It was especially hard for them to make the handle which they've never done in FRN.

I don't know if your hatchet was better or worse than the rest as I haven't had a chance to see it. I do know that the finish is not like our knives and we'll work with the maker to improve it as we can. We could have made the hatchet in China and it would have come to the market sooner and would have been much less expensive, but I wanted to make the model in the US. I don't think that I made it public. I responded to your public comments. I got your email and planned to have this conversation that way, but it seems I took too long. ( I believe I got your email yesterday, but the show takes up about 12 hours a day of my time. ) It doesn't matter to me. I would not say anything to you personally or privately that I wouldn't say in public.

And If we cannot please you with a model, I can certainly understand your going elsewhere to get what you want.

Frankly, I don't know what you would like for me to do?

sal

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Re: Spyderco Hatchet

Postby Bodog » Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:06 am

sal wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:43 am
Hi Bodog,

Frankly, I don't know what you would like for me to do?

sal
Please, enjoy the show. I really didn't mean for this to become anything major.


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