Shipping of internal parts

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
Squawk
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Re: Shipping of internal parts

Postby Squawk » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:10 am

Larry_Mott wrote:
Squawk wrote:Interesting discussion. As an overseas-customer i'm all for new options of course, although i don't think that it would be necessary for Spyderco to provide internal parts. I maintain and take apart my knives myself and fully understand the consequences. I also try to use the right knife for the right job ( that's why we have so many anyway, right? :D ), so until now i never had the need for internal parts. What i do sometimes need are new screws, because over time they tend to wear out ever so slightly and once i even got a probably returned knife with a very worn pivot screw. Glad to say that yet Spyderco always took care of me although they did not necessarily have to (thanx again Charlynn).
However, i think it would be nice to have specs for screws and maybe washers available.
No disrespect, but what you described is what i'd call "overzealous, unnecessary maintenance" Now, the knife i have carried the longest and used hardest, hands down is the 1993 Delica Clipit. It served as daily user for more than 12 years. Got dropped in mud puddles, forgotten on a trailer stabbed in a sideboard and made a 930 miles round trip :) etc etc. Granted, it couldn't be disassembled due to the construction, but i wouldn't have done it regardless since it is not necessary! It makes as much sense to me as to loosen an engine from its mounts at regular service and clean the contact surfaces.
Just my opinion, but in my case it holds water.
Don't worry, i'm not feeling disrespected in any way and actually i totally agree with you. In most cases i absolutely don't feel it to be necessary to disassemble a knife to maintain it. To clean it, you don't have to do this at all in my opinion. That being said, when i buy a knife, it is mine and i'd like to tinker, modify or just polish it whatever way that i see fit. Heck, i even take apart my Opinels :D
There have been times when i disassembled and reassembled a knife because it wasn't done properly from the factory. Of course, you should send it back to the dealer, but i'm a practical guy that tries to take care of his own problems as far as he can and if the only thing i sometimes need is 1 or 2 screws, i don't see the problem. That's why i said, specs would be nice so guys like me can get the screws on their own without having to bother Spyderco customer service. Especially when you happen to get one of those "returned knives" as i mentioned earlier. Besides, i never whine about stuff that i broke and when i first contacted Spyderco and told them that i am well aware that what i'm doing is voiding the warranty (as it did at that time), i didn't expect anything and was even more surprised that they still cared about me as a customer. For me it is just a different approach i guess. I hold my stuff in great value and try to take care of it so it lasts as long as it could possibly do. I also disassemble my bicycles, computers, car (partly) and many other things that i am confident my abilities can handle just for cleaning and changing stuff that needs to be changed on a regular basis. And sure, as of now, my abilities don't allow to strip down my cars engine, but if i am able to rebuild my racing or mountain bike, i'm not feeling overwhelmed by a folding pocket knife.
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polyhexamethyl
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Re: Shipping of internal parts

Postby polyhexamethyl » Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:28 am

That's why i said, specs would be nice so guys like me can get the screws on their own without having to bother Spyderco customer service. Especially when you happen to get one of those "returned knives" as i mentioned earlier. Besides, i never whine about stuff that i broke and when i first contacted Spyderco and told them that i am well aware that what i'm doing is voiding the warranty (as it did at that time), i didn't expect anything and was even more surprised that they still cared about me as a customer. For me it is just a different approach i guess. I hold my stuff in great value and try to take care of it so it lasts as long as it could possibly do. I also disassemble my bicycles, computers, car (partly) and many other things that i am confident my abilities can handle just for cleaning and changing stuff that needs to be changed on a regular basis. And sure, as of now, my abilities don't allow to strip down my cars engine, but if i am able to rebuild my racing or mountain bike, i'm not feeling overwhelmed by a folding pocket knife.
2nd that attitude!

i tinker with most of my stuff depending on the skillset needed.
over the years i lost a couple of screws and broke a few clips (mostly wireclips), lost a detent ball which was replaced by a ceramic substitute and managed to kill one backspacer of a C36 military - i asked W/R for a replacement unfortunately at the time this wasn`t an option. Sending in the knife was no option for me because of the cost and the risk of loss.
so i opted for the forum for ideas and a nice fellow european forumite chimed in and sent me a backspacer and a couple of screws he had lying around - eventually the backspacer didn't exactly fit my military so i made one myself (fortunately i've a cnc milling machine)

so in total the most sought for parts for me were screws and clips - i can understand if there is a problem selling parts like backspacers and such.
But where would be a line drawn? what would be possible to buy?
I got most of my screws from W/R also the Clips always were provided

Even if I didn't need Replacement parts services a lot the single fact of it beeing possible to get replacements even as a european customer is reassuring and makes it a little easier to swallow the massive pill of a higer price to pay compared to US Customers
honestly with the MAP changes and the way higher service costs for european customers me and a couple friends lowered our "Knife Intake" a lot and considered buying other Companies products.
since if there's not an easy/cheap way to get your stuff fixed why should we pay premium dollar products when there's no or just a very expensive way to get your knives fixed -
don't get me wrong i absolutely love Spydercos products and appreciate the Philosphy and want to support Spyderco and satisfy my addiction - but at current prices f.E. a 270,- € (thats currently 325,-$) military in s30v just isn't worth it for me anymore (that's a regular price from a german distributer) especially without a premium service of warranty and repair.

as a sidestory: i just had a 15 Year old leatherman serviced at their facillity in Germany - I sent it there on my expenses they fixed everything and refurbished the whole thing at no charge and sent i back to me also without charge -

thats nothing i demand from spyderco, to fix something without charging me - but it really hit me in a positive way that there's an easy way to get your stuff without a long time waiting and directly in at least your continent.

I assume that Leatherman is a way bigger company than spyderco, but they also outsource the Austrian division to a third party to get their products to their Service department in Germany.
maybe there is a similar possibility for spyderco maybe Maniago in Italy or something similar?

enough of my whining

As for Identification of CQI Versions is the poduction date engraved on every blade or just on the Golden Models?
Last edited by polyhexamethyl on Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Hailon
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Re: Shipping of internal parts

Postby Hailon » Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:31 am

I think replacement parts should be available. But i rekon the user should pay shipping as a minimum.

I live in the uk and if i needed an internal washer or bearing i would be more than willing to buy it if i needed it to make my knife how i want it.

But on the flip i fully understand that organising such a system is probably more time consuming than its worth!

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standy99
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Re: Shipping of internal parts

Postby standy99 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:38 am

I may get a bit for this but here goes two things :D

1) Include a spare set of washers and bearing with every flipper and charge a extra few dollars.
(Buy a lot of fishing gear (reels) and nearly all reels used to have a spare set of drag washers.)

2) Just pick 4 of your biggest online distribution customers in the US and 2 in the EU and give them access to parts
They would stock them as a chance of buying another knife whilst browsing parts
( Knifecentre has to be one of them, because I use them because Australia is as dear as poison )
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Squawk
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Re: Shipping of internal parts

Postby Squawk » Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:58 am

standy99 wrote: 1) Include a spare set of washers and bearing with every flipper and charge a extra few dollars.
(Buy a lot of fishing gear (reels) and nearly all reels used to have a spare set of drag washers.)
IMO that would be a little over the top and unnecessary because i still think that the majority of knives sold just works and gets used. This whole question about replacement parts is probably only interesting for a small percentage of customers anyway so packing replacement parts right away into the box sends the wrong signals i think.
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standy99
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Re: Shipping of internal parts

Postby standy99 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:35 am

Squawk - Most of the noise comes from flipper washers and bearings ;)

Butcher by trade and live in Northern Australia and been around knives for 40+ years and pains me to hear so much chatter on the forums about everything but blades. 11 pages about pulling knives apart and probably 20 about access to parts.

May be older than a lot here but the three things I care about are

The Blade
The Steel (sharpening steel)
The stone
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Re: Shipping of internal parts

Postby RLDubbya » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:11 am

Here's an idea - it's not mine. Other small knife companies (WE, Reate) are starting to do it. There's much to recommend it: a lot of the issues with internal parts tracking fall away.

What is total cost today (including admin, production, purchasing, etc) of (let's start with): a pivot bushing, a scale screw, a clip screw?

Identify the common parts you get a call for; now with every knife off the line, put one or two of each part in a cheap plastic bag, and place in the knife box underneath the knife.

Boom. No inventory issue. No trying to figure out what parts you need. Management just got a lot easier.

Without knowing numbers, I'm almost willing to bet that it would be less expensive to just start doing this, with no price increase, than it would be to continue doing what is being done today.

Think of the good will it generates as well.

EDIT: this might have been proposed in some form already. I admit I didn't read the thread, no time at the moment!

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Surfingringo
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Re: Shipping of internal parts

Postby Surfingringo » Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:51 am

I guess I'll leave my thoughts on this. As someone who lives outside of the United States, I feel like I can relate to those overseas customers. I, however, have developed a different point of view on the subject. After a year or two of living in Costa Rica, I realized that it was going to be VERY difficult to deal with warranty issues on items manufactured outside the country. And here, almost everything we use is manufactured outside the country. The way I have handled this is instead of having expectations of companies that are rarely going to be met and will only leave me frustrated, I have simply modified my buying habits.

I have accepted that a warranty, no matter how good, is of little use to me here. The cost of shipping an item to the USA and paying shipping and customs costs to have it returned is so high as to make the warranty nearly worthless. When I am shopping brands of any item, I never look for the best warranty, I look for the best product. I don't want something that will be repaired by the company if it breaks, I want something that will not break. This has a huge impact on my buying habits.

So, warranty means very little to me, but access to parts is a crucial consideration when purchasing. An example is my choice of fishing reels. My reels live a hard life because of the constant spray and occasional saltwater dunking on the kayak. They need to be disassembled and cleaned and serviced several times a year just to keep them working. I would love to be able to mail them off for free service that some companies offer but its just not an option for me here. Because of that though, I will only buy reels that I can find parts for here. To do otherwise is a recipe for frustration.

I suppose I can see folks having the same feelings about pocket knives, but honestly, as many knives as I own and as hard as I use them, I have never had issues with a knife that required new parts. It might happen one day and I agree it would be nice to be able to buy what I need but because I have never had any need for it, its not even on my radar as an important consideration when purchasing a knife. If and when that does happen, I will do what I always do. I will be patient and wait for someone who is traveling to the US to carry the knife back for me or to bring me the parts I need here. Sure, that's not as convenient as it would be if I lived in the States but here's the thing...I don't live in the States so I accept the situation for what it is.

I guess my point is that parts availability absolutely affects my buying decisions on many items (though not on pocket knives I must admit). That said, it would never occur to me to go on the internet and pitch a fit because a company wasn't doing business the way I would like them to. I think it's perfectly acceptable to offer an opinion (much like our new member Daveho did) so that the company can weight the costs and benefits of changing their policy in and attempt to earn more business but the over entitled rants and demands that we see here from time to time seem pretty silly to me. I find it's much less painful to change my expectations than to try to change how the rest of the world behaves.

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Re: Shipping of internal parts

Postby mattman » Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:56 am

The biggest issue I see for the "size database" is the problem with the fakes. It has been mentioned that this is one of the few ways Spyderco can stem the tide, so to speak, by not making that info to easily available. I'm sure the thread pitch and head style are easy enough to identify, but, as I mentioned elsewhere, the length of each screw is quite critical, as well... I don't know that an internet record of all this data will be the answer?

I don't want to get off topic, but my guess is the borg cloners are going to figure that stuff out one way or the other, but I'm not privy to how effective limiting this info is, to that end.

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Re: Shipping of internal parts

Postby RLDubbya » Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:44 am

mattman wrote:The biggest issue I see for the "size database" is the problem with the fakes. It has been mentioned that this is one of the few ways Spyderco can stem the tide, so to speak, by not making that info to easily available. I'm sure the thread pitch and head style are easy enough to identify, but, as I mentioned elsewhere, the length of each screw is quite critical, as well... I don't know that an internet record of all this data will be the answer?

I don't want to get off topic, but my guess is the borg cloners are going to figure that stuff out one way or the other, but I'm not privy to how effective limiting this info is, to that end.
Mattman - you raise an excellent point, although I'm going to go in a different direction. Perhaps including a small bag of parts is an answer to counterfeiting as well. That small bag of parts could have a card, with a code. Scan the code with your smartphone, get a coupon or something else for incentive, but enter name, address, etc. into db. Now Spyderco has a record of who bought a particular knife; sure it won't be 100% accurate forever, but it's a start. That database, tying model to person, opens the door to self-serve ordering of another bag of parts should the need arise. Obviously, Spyderco can change the codes periodically so that the counterfeiters have to keep guessing / working.

Put the onus on the dealer to check each Spyderco they ship to make sure that there is a bag of parts.

Since it's not changing hardware, it's relatively easy to pull off such changes. This might make counterfeiting a whole lot less attractive than it is today.

And FWIW: if Spyderco is using standard screws (and so far my experience backs that up), then for a given thread size and diameter, there are a very limited number of lengths which are made. For example: the smallest ANSI screw used is a 0-80. That comes in, IIRC, no more than 5 or 6 lengths, some of which are clearly incorrect. Consider, as well, that there are a quite limited number of screws with the correct diameter used in the knife world: for example, I have yet to see a folder with a 1" OD screw (although Ed Schempp would be the guy to build one, lol.)

So figuring out which screws to use is not a problem at all; I do it on a regular basis. As do other folks working on knives.

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Re: Shipping of internal parts

Postby Daveho » Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:49 pm

I’d like to see parts available as an extension of the current business, it’s not a charity and yes the user pays.
You get warranty by sending it in or you can buy the parts and sort it yourself.

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Hailon
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Re: Shipping of internal parts

Postby Hailon » Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:27 pm

Daveho wrote: You get warranty by sending it in or you can buy the parts and sort it yourself.
I rekon that is 100% the correct answer!

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RamZar
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Re: Shipping of internal parts

Postby RamZar » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:52 pm

Scale screws should be easier to stock specially for popular models like Delica, Endura, Native, ParaMilitary2, Para3, etc. and I think they should be free inlcuding free shipping to U.S. addresses.

Spacers, pivot screws, clips, caged bearings, etc. should also be stocked but shipped for a fee.

Ideally, replacement blades as well at some point for a fee.
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standy99
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Re: Shipping of internal parts

Postby standy99 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:13 pm

RamZar wrote:Scale screws should be easier to stock specially for popular models like Delica, Endura, Native, ParaMilitary2, Para3, etc. and I think they should be free inlcuding free shipping to U.S. addresses.

Spacers, pivot screws, clips, caged bearings, etc. should also be stocked but shipped for a fee.

Ideally, replacement blades as well at some point for a fee.
Who is going to pay the poor guy to monitor the emails get the parts put them in a post pack.
Who is going to pay the guy to make these free screws
Who is going to pay the guy to mine the metal
Who is going to pay the post man

Nothing in the world is free these days

Thanks for the free forum Sal :D
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RamZar
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Re: Shipping of internal parts

Postby RamZar » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:18 pm

standy99 wrote:
RamZar wrote:Scale screws should be easier to stock specially for popular models like Delica, Endura, Native, ParaMilitary2, Para3, etc. and I think they should be free inlcuding free shipping to U.S. addresses.

Spacers, pivot screws, clips, caged bearings, etc. should also be stocked but shipped for a fee.

Ideally, replacement blades as well at some point for a fee.
Who is going to pay the poor guy to monitor the emails get the parts put them in a post pack.
Who is going to pay the guy to make these free screws
Who is going to pay the guy to mine the metal
Who is going to pay the post man

Nothing in the world is free these days

Thanks for the free forum Sal :D
Benchmade and ZT/Kershaw ship some parts for free and they charge for other more expensive parts and blade replacement. Of course, shipping parts for free has potential for abuse.
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  • You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time. - Abraham Lincoln

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Re: Shipping of internal parts

Postby npad69 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:12 pm

RamZar wrote: Benchmade and ZT/Kershaw ship some parts for free and they charge for other more expensive parts and blade replacement. Of course, shipping parts for free has potential for abuse.
Shipping out parts for free has to be shouldered by someone somewhere.. definitely not the company else they'd go bankrupt. This why BM's and ZT's products are more expensive than spyderco's. A big NO for me if spyderco increases their prices just because people want screws shipped to them for free.
BTW, thank you very much sal for those free and gorgeous catalogs and brochures you ship to us for free too.

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MichaelScott
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Re: Shipping of internal parts

Postby MichaelScott » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:30 pm

If "standard" parts, like screws, bushings, etc. (nothing proprietary to Spyderco) was sought, why would it be incumbent on Spyderco to supply them? There are plenty of screw and bushing sellers to choose from who already have inventory and sales in place. All one needs are the specifications. Proper tools and internet search techniques will provide that. Spyderco might publicize those specs, but I don’t think it is necessary.

I see most of the "needs" here are really "wants" so that it will be easier to wrench a knife and recover from possible mistakes.
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polyhexamethyl
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Re: Shipping of internal parts

Postby polyhexamethyl » Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:36 am

If "standard" parts, like screws, bushings, etc. (nothing proprietary to Spyderco) was sought, why would it be incumbent on Spyderco to supply them? There are plenty of screw and bushing sellers to choose from who already have inventory and sales in place. All one needs are the specifications. Proper tools and internet search techniques will provide that. Spyderco might publicize those specs, but I don’t think it is necessary.

I see most of the "needs" here are really "wants" so that it will be easier to wrench a knife and recover from possible mistakes.
again, not living in the US and in a metric part of the world it's not that easy to get specific parts!
also all online retailers like albanyfasteners, knifekits, usaknifemaker etc. charge a very premium fee to ship to europe (between $30,- - 80,-)

I don't know about your Car preferences, but imagine a bmw 3 series isn't $45.000,- but $80.500,- and also you aren't able to buy spare parts without sending the car to germany for an evaluation. (shipping fees and risk of loss included) I don't want to be offensive, i just want to clarify our Standpoint overhere. (Australia, Europe, Asia and whatnot)

i've to admit that "needs" can sometime be "wants" too. but paying a premium price for a product qualifies that (for me at least)

the new PPT Sprint if i'm lucky to get one, will set me back about 2/3 of the price my motor Spindle of my CNC cost me and about 1 1/2 times as much as US Buyers have to pay - pretty much a precision item too but on another technical level. And a pricey piece of equipment for me.
but replacement and service parts are availale for the long run.

I'm very sure that my Spyderco Knives will outlive me, but the sheer number is a big reason for this! I own more knives than i need but i enjoy collecting them and also use them and for that i want to keep them in the best working order and shipping them to the states for repair isn't the smartest option - so I'm here - and a lot of other folks who are willing to pay for spareparts if needed, and advocate for a cause which would make a lot of our lives easier.

I've to say - and that is what I love about Spyderco - I'm very happy to have Sal and crew listening to all our Customers needs, and I'm sure they will figure something out we all can live with!

i hope this is understandable since english isn't my first language.

best regards from Austria
Last edited by polyhexamethyl on Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

husq2100
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Re: Shipping of internal parts

Postby husq2100 » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:52 am

how the hell should screws be free! they are a non moving, non wearing part. If you are having problems with them my bet is its on you...

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Re: Shipping of internal parts

Postby PayneTrain » Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:22 am

I don't think anything about this uncommon service should be free. I was quite surprised when my request to be sold some replacement clip screws resulted in an envelope in the mail before I could even think about finding my wallet! Spare parts should be sold and shipped at modest expense to the customer, because it's not something we should expect with our purchase.

Furthermore, the onus to request the correct part should be totally on the customer, and no warranty of any kind should be made as to whether or not the part sent will fit the customer's knife. That means no returns as well! You ask for the wrong part, eat it! It's only a couple bucks.

I think the real trick lies in discerning between a warranty issue and a spare part request. Warranty issues should still of course be free fixes, as it is assumed to be not our fault if something is a warranty issue. How does Spyderco tell whether someone is claiming a manufacturing defect or simply trying to get a spare part for free when they really shouldn't be entitled to it? At first I thought that perhaps this could be solved by only performing warranty service by having the knife sent in to HQ, but in reality some warranty services are clearly better dealt with by just mailing out a part, saving both parties time and money.

Warranty repairs, free. Spare parts, pay. Spyderco deciding which is which, that's where I see the problem in my proposed system. [pensive emoji]
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