Shipping of internal parts

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sal
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Shipping of internal parts

Postby sal » Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:40 pm

Shipping of internal parts

There has been some discussion and fair amount of frustration on the question of Spyderco choosing not to ship internal parts. The subject is far more complicated than it might appear on the surface. Some of the questions that come up probably need to be explored and as usual, I would like your input on this policy.

Trying to inventory all parts for the hundreds of models and variations that we make is a daunting task. Without actually having the knife in our hands, even part selection is challenging. I will stay involved in this discussion and will try to share thoughts.

Some relevant questions:
What model do you have?
What variation do you have?
Do you have a counterfeit?
Collecting and shipping parts overseas is expensive. Will you pay for that service?

sal

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jpm2
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Re: Shipping of internal parts

Postby jpm2 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:49 pm

Model # should be on the box.
Is the variation identified on the box?
Counterfeit shouldn't matter? if the customer is paying for the parts?
It would be unreasonable to not pay for the service and parts, imo.

Order the parts as needed, no inventory. If it takes 2 months, so be it.
Last edited by jpm2 on Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Hugaso
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Re: Shipping of internal parts

Postby Hugaso » Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:49 pm

Wow.

Personally, I have no interest in ever purchasing replacement parts. I completely understand Spyderco's existing policy.

However, I think it's very admirable of you sal to open this topic to discussion/consideration. You and Eric keeping doing what you do, because you folks are the best.
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Re: Shipping of internal parts

Postby curlyhairedboy » Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:53 pm

applauding this effort!
Suggestions:

1. focus on USA-made models first, as they (may) have the most parts at hand in Golden.
2. focus on Taichung flippers, as they have the most "noise" in the knife community surrounding them.
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Re: Shipping of internal parts

Postby TriggerThumb » Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:55 pm

I posted once, but it dissappeared. In summary; Is it possible to some extent standardize parts? Why is it so hard to obtain hardware for a typical person? There must be places that sell them. Does spyderco custom fabricate everything they use?
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sal
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Re: Shipping of internal parts

Postby sal » Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:58 pm

Hi Hugaso,

Welcome to our forum and thanx much for the kind words.

sal

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anycal
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Re: Shipping of internal parts

Postby anycal » Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:00 pm

Which models do we have? Which models do you make? ;) Maybe instead of noting which knives we have, a better information could be which knives we use?

I think the Golden knives parts would be the easiest to get out there. My collection is mainly comprised of these. And since the flippers got so much press, those would be good candidates.

I will add that even as I pretty much take all my knives apart, I haven't had any problems. Even in the olden days with stronger lock-tite, This will be nice to have, but not a necessity for me.
Last edited by anycal on Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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NoFair
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Re: Shipping of internal parts

Postby NoFair » Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:03 pm

sal wrote:Shipping of internal parts

There has been some discussion and fair amount of frustration on the question of Spyderco choosing not to ship internal parts. The subject is far more complicated than it might appear on the surface. Some of the questions that come up probably need to be explored and as usual, I would like your input on this policy.

Trying to inventory all parts for the hundreds of models and variations that we make is a daunting task. Without actually having the knife in our hands, even part selection is challenging. I will stay involved in this discussion and will try to share thoughts.

Some relevant questions:
What model do you have?
What variation do you have?
Do you have a counterfeit?
Collecting and shipping parts overseas is expensive. Will you pay for that service?

sal
I've gotten parts for discoed models (thx Charlynn) without paying for them and clips for current models (where I paid for shipping and clips)

I did get replacement clip screws as well. With CQI I see the problem with having a stock of parts and getting the correct ones out to customers.

One small thing that could be improved on is the huge number of slightly different screws where some standardization would be great (clip screws?)

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Re: Shipping of internal parts

Postby Spydergirl88 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:04 pm

I agree with Hugaso. I stripped some PM2 screws once out of my own stupidity and it never once crossed my mind to order/ask spyderco for replacement screws and it never crossed my mind to send in my knife to spyderco either. I measured the screws and found some that were almost identical and countersunk the g10 a tiny amount to accommodate new screws.
It's my opinion that customers can contact spyderco directly through phone and or email (not the forum) to request internal parts sent to them for a fee and if SFO does not have that part in stock, sorry no dice. I believe any other solution would cause undue cost on spyderco and then the costs would be passed down to all customers. if the customer feels that spyderco is responsible for their knife being faulty they can ship it to SFO on the customer's own dime for warranty evaluation.
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Re: Shipping of internal parts

Postby Spydergirl88 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:05 pm

jpm2 wrote: Counterfeit shouldn't matter? if the customer is paying for the parts?
what do you mean by this?
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Re: Shipping of internal parts

Postby The Deacon » Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:07 pm

Not a problem for me, as I "know my limitations" and don't take my knives apart.
jpm2 wrote:Model # should be on the box.
Yes, but a lot of folks are going to have thrown the box out long before they take their knife apart and mess things up. Others will have bought it second hand on eBay or elsewhere without the box.
jpm2 wrote:Is the variation identified on the box?
Yes, even the date it was boxed, but again moot point if they never had the box or threw it out.
jpm2 wrote:Counterfeit shouldn't matter? if the customer is paying for the parts?
Nonsense, why would Spyderco want to improve someone's counterfeit.
jpm2 wrote:it would be unreasonable to not pay for the service and parts, imo.
Agree, the real question is whether overseas customers will be willing to pay for it, or whether it will just change the whine from "I can't believe I can't get parts" to "I can't believe they want $NN to ship a part that weighs so little and costs so little".
jpm2 wrote:Order the parts as needed, no inventory. If it takes 2 months, so be it.
And some will whine about that.
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Re: Shipping of internal parts

Postby buccilli15 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:14 pm

I echo Hugaso's statement; in all my years of colleting and using knives, not once have I needed an internal part. Your current policy seems very fair to me.

The rare exception might be a well-documented "issue" and a foreign customer. From the other thread...I totally understand the customer's frustration. Instances like this could be case-case where Spyderco will send out a spare part considering the circumstances.

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Re: Shipping of internal parts

Postby jpm2 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:16 pm

Spydergirl88 wrote:I agree with Hugaso. I stripped some PM2 screws once out of my own stupidity and it never once crossed my mind to order/ask spyderco for replacement screws and it never crossed my mind to send in my knife to spyderco either. I measured the screws and found some that were almost identical and countersunk the g10 a tiny amount to accommodate new screws.
That is plan B for me if I can not source the exact part from Spyderco.
Spydergirl88 wrote:It's my opinion that customers can contact spyderco directly through phone and or email (not the forum) to request internal parts sent to them for a fee and if SFO does not have that part in stock, sorry no dice. I believe any other solution would cause undue cost on spyderco and then the costs would be passed down to all customers. if the customer feels that spyderco is responsible for their knife being faulty they can ship it to SFO on the customer's own dime for warranty evaluation.
I can't imagine anyone not expecting to pay the full cost involved to get a part that they were responsible for damaging.

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Re: Shipping of internal parts

Postby Spydergirl88 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:22 pm

The Deacon wrote:
jpm2 wrote:Counterfeit shouldn't matter? if the customer is paying for the parts?
Nonsense, why would Spyderco want to improve someone's counterfeit.
jpm2 wrote:it would be unreasonable to not pay for the service and parts, imo.
Agree, the real question is whether overseas customers will be willing to pay for it, or whether it will just change the whine from "I can't believe I can't get parts" to "I can't believe they want $NN to ship a part that weighs so little and costs so little".
jpm2 wrote:Order the parts as needed, no inventory. If it takes 2 months, so be it.
And some will whine about that.
this.
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Re: Shipping of internal parts

Postby jpm2 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:24 pm

Spydergirl88 wrote:
jpm2 wrote: Counterfeit shouldn't matter? if the customer is paying for the parts?
what do you mean by this?
I see what you mean, if the parts fit.
From what I've heard, they don't. If that's the case, they're stuck with parts they can't use. Maybe it'll alert them to the fact they have a counterfeit.
I don't see any skin off Spydercos' nose unless the parts do fit, then it's a problem.

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Re: Shipping of internal parts

Postby ZrowsN1s » Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:26 pm

I wouldn't mind if you started shipping internals (I might even buy some), as long as the cost is shouldered exclusively by the people buying replacement parts. I wouldn't be for it if it means the price of the average knife will increase as a direct result.
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Re: Shipping of internal parts

Postby foofie » Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:29 pm

I am a huge fan of CQI - but I think one downside (that I readily accept) is the availability of parts. Need a new stop pin for your miltary? Sure - but is that before or after CQI? What about all the other incremental changes along the way? Will the current part be completely backwards compatible? No way to know without the knife in hand.

I do feel for some of our non-US forumites. Perhaps parts could be shipped internationally at customer's expense and risk?

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Re: Shipping of internal parts

Postby jpm2 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:33 pm

The Deacon wrote:Not a problem for me, as I "know my limitations" and don't take my knives apart..
Me too, and I do take mine apart when I feel it's necessary.
jpm2 wrote:Model # should be on the box.
The Deacon wrote:Yes, but a lot of folks are going to have thrown the box out long before they take their knife apart and mess things up. Others will have bought it second hand on eBay or elsewhere without the box. .
No box, or other way of verifying the exact model and variation, no parts, unless the customer wants to take complete responsibility for the order with no chance of return.
jpm2 wrote:Is the variation identified on the box?
The Deacon wrote:Yes, even the date it was boxed, but again moot point if they never had the box or threw it out..
same as above.
jpm2 wrote:Counterfeit shouldn't matter? if the customer is paying for the parts?
The Deacon wrote:Nonsense, why would Spyderco want to improve someone's counterfeit..
From what I've read, they don't take the same parts, see my reply to Spydergirl88. If that's not correct, then yes it's a problem.
jpm2 wrote:it would be unreasonable to not pay for the service and parts, imo.
The Deacon wrote:Agree, the real question is whether overseas customers will be willing to pay for it, or whether it will just change the whine from "I can't believe I can't get parts" to "I can't believe they want $NN to ship a part that weighs so little and costs so little"..
Glad we agree on one thing.
jpm2 wrote:Order the parts as needed, no inventory. If it takes 2 months, so be it.
The Deacon wrote:And some will whine about that.
Of course, but better than now?

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Re: Shipping of internal parts

Postby MichaelScott » Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:45 pm

I think the first question that needs to be answered is, what is the magnitude of the problem? I don’t know the data of course but it seems possible that this statistically is not a significant issue. If there are hundreds of models in circulation having been manufactured by five different “plants” around the world, stocking, inventorying, finding and shipping a few small parts would be an enormous resource drain. Additionally, what percentage of requests regarding knife issues are requests for the parts? 1%? I’d bet less than that. So, I have to ask, is it at all feasible to establish an inventory of internal parts in five different global locations that would be relevant for all of the models ever made in those locations, or to concentrate that inventory in one location, hire the people necessary to manage that along with picking and shipping, and build or buy the software and infrastructure necessary to support a parts supply house in order to fix a small number of parts requests? Especially, as some have pointed out there, the parts in question are available from existing vendors. May take a bit of research to find what is needed but that isn’t rocket science.

It seems simple enough. You’ve buggered up your knife by taking it apart for some reason that seemed good to you at the time. You want someone at Spyderco to grab a couple of screws or washers off a shelf and pop them in an envelope to you after you send in your $5 (to include shipping and handling). Easy, right? Not so much. You’ve voided the warranty by buggering the knife up but you don’t want to send it in and pay to have it fixed right. This is more onerous when you don’t live in the US, or can’t use a local seller or distributor. Paying a bunch of money to ship it, maybe pay customs, maybe have it stolen isn’t a problem you want to have. I don’t blame you. But, harsh as it may seem, you shouldn’t blame Spyderco for not solving your own problem at the cost you would like to pay.

Sourcing, stocking, inventorying, managing and shipping small parts to knife mechanics is not a sound business idea.
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Re: Shipping of internal parts

Postby jpm2 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:54 pm

foofie wrote:I am a huge fan of CQI - but I think one downside (that I readily accept) is the availability of parts. Need a new stop pin for your miltary? Sure - but is that before or after CQI? What about all the other incremental changes along the way? Will the current part be completely backwards compatible? No way to know without the knife in hand.

I do feel for some of our non-US forumites. Perhaps parts could be shipped internationally at customer's expense and risk?
I only have the new version military, the stop pin that doesn't use screws. Does the old one use them? If so, that's easily identified.
Again, the customer takes full responsibility for providing the correct information.

I'm sure certain parts like blades and locking mechanisms that are mated parts would be off the table. This should only apply to simple drop in items like screws, spacers, clips, springs, stops, washers, bearings, etc.


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