SharpMaker Ultra Fine Rods or Leather Strop??

[JaseRicco]

I would also add that I only have one ultra fine stone and don't find it a hassle to move it from one slot to other depending on which side I'm sharpening.

*The 'wiggle' of the stones really shouldn't be an issue. Maybe try going slower and lighter see if that helps.

I thought about doing that, but figured since I use alternating strokes, this would be too much of a hassle. But beggars can’t be choosers, so if I dont want to spend $30 right now, and it is possible to move the rod from one side to the other with relative ease...I may just have to try it.

Good advice, ill try to be sure that I am not using too much pressure.

:) :spyder:

[Bloke]

Stropping is OK for quick touchups in field etc, but there are drawbacks as every time you use that strop you will lose some edge retention every time you do it. So normally about 3 or 4 times using it then refresh the edge.

With the ceramics that's not a problem so I don't NORMALLY use a strop.

Why is that Jim? :)

[JaseRicco]

This is one of the best sharpening threads I have read on here. Thank you guys. My skills are still below avg, I can not whittle free hanging hairs, just shaving sharp, but I will give it another try. I think I focus too much on reprofiling to 30 degrees and forget to microbevel as often, so sharpening is viewed as a "chore" due to the time reprofiling takes.

I probably put too much pressure on the finishing strokes with the Fine rods... But, I do like my strops and it does give me a slightly sharper edge, but that is probably a technique issue.

That’s why I started the discussion. I am extremely new to sharpening with anything more that’s a crappy pull through, like couple weeks new. I also started a discussion about the SharpMaker itself, there’s some really good information within that thread about sharpening as well.

:) :spyder:

[Ankerson]

Stropping is OK for quick touchups in field etc, but there are drawbacks as every time you use that strop you will lose some edge retention every time you do it. So normally about 3 or 4 times using it then refresh the edge.

With the ceramics that's not a problem so I don't NORMALLY use a strop.

Why is that Jim? :)

The strop straightens out the edge rather than removes metal like a stone so the apex is weakened somewhat.

So you can only do it so many times before it doesn't make any difference or actually dulls the blade.

Now some use real abrasives on the strops like diamond compound so that would be delayed somewhat. You can use those like a stone depending on what is used.

[The Meat man]

JaseRicco, What blade steel are you working with?

[Bloke]

The strop straightens out the edge rather than removes metal like a stone so the apex is weakened somewhat.

So you can only do it so many times before it doesn't make any difference or actually dulls the blade.

Now some use real abrasives on the strops like diamond compound so that would be delayed somewhat. You can use those like a stone depending on what is used.

Like using a steel?

[JaseRicco]

JaseRicco, What blade steel are you working with?

I recently purchased the Persistence & Efficient. These come with the Chinese 8cR13

[Ankerson]

The strop straightens out the edge rather than removes metal like a stone so the apex is weakened somewhat.

So you can only do it so many times before it doesn't make any difference or actually dulls the blade.

Now some use real abrasives on the strops like diamond compound so that would be delayed somewhat. You can use those like a stone depending on what is used.

Like using a steel?

Same deal, just straightens the edge, will weaken it over time.

[Bloke]

Same deal, just straightens the edge, will weaken it over time.

I get it!

Thanks mate! :)

[JD Spydo]

Stropping is OK for quick touchups in field etc, but there are drawbacks as every time you use that strop you will lose some edge retention every time you do it. So normally about 3 or 4 times using it then refresh the edge.

With the ceramics that's not a problem so I don't NORMALLY use a strop.

You've really got my curiosity going now Ankerson :) Because you and Cliff Stamp both have made that case over the years and now I'm wondering why stropping would cause you to lose some of the "edge retention" :confused: Hey you and Cliff I think have both forgotten more than I've learned so far so I'm open to hear why you think that is?

Because I've been using 3 different strops with my M390 Military and I've been having great results. But maybe I should just go with stones only for a while to see if I could notice the difference

Also this coincides with some information that I've gotten from another website recently. I've heard that doing a final finish on an Arkansas Stone (novaculite) actually does better than stropping

Also another item of interest is that it has been mainly Barbers using strops on straight razors for years before I heard of the knife community using them for edge enhancement. Actually I do find all of this interesting. Maybe Surf can thumb his nose at me after all :D

[Ankerson]

Stropping is OK for quick touchups in field etc, but there are drawbacks as every time you use that strop you will lose some edge retention every time you do it. So normally about 3 or 4 times using it then refresh the edge.

With the ceramics that's not a problem so I don't NORMALLY use a strop.

You've really got my curiosity going now Ankerson :) Because you and Cliff Stamp both have made that case over the years and now I'm wondering why stropping would cause you to lose some of the "edge retention" :confused: Hey you and Cliff I think have both forgotten more than I've learned so far so I'm open to hear why you think that is?

Because I've been using 3 different strops with my M390 Military and I've been having great results. But maybe I should just go with stones only for a while to see if I could notice the difference

Also this coincides with some information that I've gotten from another website recently. I've heard that doing a final finish on an Arkansas Stone (novaculite) actually does better than stropping

Also another item of interest is that it has been mainly Barbers using strops on straight razors for years before I heard of the knife community using them for edge enhancement. Actually I do find all of this interesting. Maybe Surf can thumb his nose at me after all :D

Well I will try and make it simple. :)

When a knife is used to cut stuff the apex gets worn, rolls or gets damaged, ths happens with ANY steel on ANY knife.

Now when that happens the apex is larger than before (thicker).

Stropping straightens the edge.... This is the same edge as above now, the one with the thicker apex.

Given the strop staightens the edge and that also bends the steel back into place (weakening the edge) kinda like bending a paperclip back and forth.

Now what we have after stropping is a thicker, weakened, damaged apex.

So each time the strop is used take the above and multiply it again and add a certian percentge as it will be worse each time.

[JD Spydo]

Hey all of that is very interesting Ankerson and I don't disagree with your analysis in most instances but there is something else in play here that didn't use to be a factor in years past. What about all these new strops that they have on the market now that are impregnated with all these types of compounds, polishes and even diamond dust for that matter??? Wouldn't the diamond dust for instance actually work to make a more refined apex whereas the plain leather ( or whatever material you use) do what you stated earlier. I've actually had some most interesting results with some of this stropping compound that I got from Garrett Wade Co. >> and I would love to try to use a strop with a powdered version of novaculite which is supposed to have some polishing properties to it.

Also I've wondered about this newer concept called Power Stropping? And I'm wondering why stropping has become considerably more popular than let's say ten years ago?

[Ankerson]

Hey all of that is very interesting Ankerson and I don't disagree with your analysis in most instances but there is something else in play here that didn't use to be a factor in years past. What about all these new strops that they have on the market now that are impregnated with all these types of compounds, polishes and even diamond dust for that matter??? Wouldn't the diamond dust for instance actually work to make a more refined apex whereas the plain leather ( or whatever material you use) do what you stated earlier. I've actually had some most interesting results with some of this stropping compound that I got from Garrett Wade Co. >> and I would love to try to use a strop with a powdered version of novaculite which is supposed to have some polishing properties to it.

Also I've wondered about this newer concept called Power Stropping? And I'm wondering why stropping has become considerably more popular than let's say ten years ago?

Like I posted out before some use compounds on smooth leather like diamond or Silicon carbide.

Now what that does is actually cut the steel some while straightening the edge so you get both negatives and positives.

What that does is delay what I posted above by a percentage, but over time that will stop working just as using a plain strop does. The apex will still be thicker each time, that is unavoidable.

So you can only do it so many times before the edge will need to be refreshed on stones so the apex will be clean and new.

[Strider]

Neither. Diamond or cbn rods are going to prove much more important for maintaining extremely sharp edges. It is a simple matter to make any steel sharp enough to whittle free hanging hairs with just the regular fine rods. How much sharper than that do you want your edges? If you aren’t able to get those types of results yet then you are better off practicing your technique than trying to chase sharpness through higher refinement. Just my 2 cents.

All that said, I bought the UF rods years ago and had fun with them for awhile and still use them on rare occasions. There’s nothing wrong with owning them, it’s just that the diamond rods are a vastly more important addition to the Sharpmaker.

I need to work on my technique big time! I can get hair shaving sharp, but I've yet to whittle hair. Any suggestions?

Start with a freshly sharpened 30 degree edge with a very clean and sharp apex. From there, start adding a 40 degree microbevel with very light pressure. Go very slow and pay close attention to keeping your angles as precise as possible. Within 10-20 very light passes you will be near hair whittling. Keep going progressively lighter and lighter until you are barely even using the weight of the knife as pressure against the stone. You'll get there.

ETA - obviously, you can accomplish this with other angles... a 20 degree edge with a 30 degree microbevel for example. I just said 30 and 40 degrees because that's what the sharpmaker allows and I know it will work. :)

In this situation, which stones would you use?

[Surfingringo]

Neither. Diamond or cbn rods are going to prove much more important for maintaining extremely sharp edges. It is a simple matter to make any steel sharp enough to whittle free hanging hairs with just the regular fine rods. How much sharper than that do you want your edges? If you aren’t able to get those types of results yet then you are better off practicing your technique than trying to chase sharpness through higher refinement. Just my 2 cents.

All that said, I bought the UF rods years ago and had fun with them for awhile and still use them on rare occasions. There’s nothing wrong with owning them, it’s just that the diamond rods are a vastly more important addition to the Sharpmaker.

I need to work on my technique big time! I can get hair shaving sharp, but I've yet to whittle hair. Any suggestions?

Start with a freshly sharpened 30 degree edge with a very clean and sharp apex. From there, start adding a 40 degree microbevel with very light pressure. Go very slow and pay close attention to keeping your angles as precise as possible. Within 10-20 very light passes you will be near hair whittling. Keep going progressively lighter and lighter until you are barely even using the weight of the knife as pressure against the stone. You'll get there.

ETA - obviously, you can accomplish this with other angles... a 20 degree edge with a 30 degree microbevel for example. I just said 30 and 40 degrees because that's what the sharpmaker allows and I know it will work. :)

In this situation, which stones would you use?

Hi Strider, if I’m trying to create a hair whittling edge with the Sharpmaker (which I rarely bother with) I will reprofile at 30 degrees with the diamond rods then move on through the medium and fine rods at 30 degrees. Once I have a very clean and refined apex at 30 then I switch to 40 degrees and go straight to the fine rods. Your microbevel can take you to hair whittling in as few as a dozen light passes. Precise angle and super light pressure are the keys at that stage.

[Strider]

Since this was the best sharpening thread I've found I will ask these two questions here:
What angle am I supposed to touch up serrated blades on?

Are there situations where diamond rods are better than CBN or vice versa? Or is it just personal preference between the two?

[ZrowsN1s]

Since this was the best sharpening thread I've found I will ask these two questions here:
What angle am I supposed to touch up serrated blades on?

Are there situations where diamond rods are better than CBN or vice versa? Or is it just personal preference between the two?

I just sharpened a few of my SE spydies and for all of them I used the 40 degree slots on the Sharpmaker. (I only sharpen one side, and lightly sharpen the burr off the other side)

Ive not confirmed this, but I've been told the cbn is coarser than the diamond.

[Sharp Guy]

Ive not confirmed this, but I've been told the cbn is coarser than the diamond.

See the thread below. Sal stated that..."Both our diamonds and CBN are 400 mesh."

http://www.spyderco.com/forumII/viewtop ... 58#p986858

I have the CBN and just gave a friend a Sharpmaker that came with new Diamond rods. I didn't do a side-by-side test but I used the diamond rods at my friend's house and they seemed very similar to the CBN to me.

[ZrowsN1s]

...

See the thread below. Sal stated that..."Both our diamonds and CBN are 400 mesh."

....

Thanks for the info, I was incorrect.

[vivi]

Since this was the best sharpening thread I've found I will ask these two questions here:
What angle am I supposed to touch up serrated blades on?

Are there situations where diamond rods are better than CBN or vice versa? Or is it just personal preference between the two?

Either angle is fine. All of my SE Spydercos came ground at 15 degrees and I've maintained that angle. I like how SE cuts after being taken to an ultrafine polish. It shows very good push cutting ability for a serrated knife sharpened that way.

Try the sharpie trick and if 15 degrees doesn't hit the edge, use 20.