Spyderco’s Polestar & Alcyone should not be in the “VALUE LINEUP”

[SG89]

The recent x steels in x models got me interested in trying more of what spyderco had to offer. So I didn't have a cts-bd1 blade so I looked at what was available. I ended up with what I believe is the best option at the ukpk drop point in cts-bd1. It's us made and still right around $50. Prior to that search I was going to get the polestar but the ukpk being us made at that price changed my mind.

What made you choose the ukpk over the manix 2 lw for US made models with cts-bd1? price, size, or cbbl lock vs slipjoint?

[Sjucaveman]

The recent x steels in x models got me interested in trying more of what spyderco had to offer. So I didn't have a cts-bd1 blade so I looked at what was available. I ended up with what I believe is the best option at the ukpk drop point in cts-bd1. It's us made and still right around $50. Prior to that search I was going to get the polestar but the ukpk being us made at that price changed my mind.

What made you choose the ukpk over the manix 2 lw for US made models with cts-bd1? price, size, or cbbl lock vs slipjoint?

I have a manix LW in maxamet and if feels so flimsy without lines like the g10 version. Plus I was aiming to get a model I didn't have in a steel I didn't have. Expanding my spyderco horizons.

Edited to add its also a unique blade shape.

[SG89]

Nice.

[dcunited08]

Have these knives picked up in sales? I am looking to get a Spyderco and thought about the Alcyone.

[Bmikead]

I was going to buy the alcyone today but being in Canada with the new import laws is no fun. Ordered a Raven 2 instead but would have preferred the Alcyone pretty much solely because of the esthetics. Here in Canada the price difference between a Tenacious and a Alcyone is much more pronounced. I will be glad to pay the extra for something that will hopefully make it through a work day without becoming a chore to use but still comes in just under $100 here.

And even though it is anecdotal, from the retention testing videos I've seen on steels, bd1 can outperform 8cr13mov, d2, vg-10, sandvik by a huge margin in some cases with 8cr13mov being by far one of the worst preforming. Aside from one competitor's d2 anyway which I think is more of a blade shape thing. But again, that all probably comes down to heat treatment and blade geometry. Pretty excited to see how this Raven stacks up.

One day I'll pull the trigger on that maxamet or something of the like. Maybe. Probably not though seeing as I enjoy sharpening as well.

Also between the 8cr13mov knives and the bos treated 420hc knives I have the bos holds an edge noticably longer and actually usually come in way cheaper here. I could just be fooling myself but sure feels that way. *Hint hint nudge nudge* budget friendly good american steel *cough cough*

[lonerider1013]

To be fair I thought they were "overpriced" too compared to the others because I didn't notice the diff steel. I just assumed they cost more because they were new!

it would certainly be less of a standout than if it were Cruwear and USA made.

What is Cruwear? It sounds like a line of hip hop clothing. Just curious.

lonerider

[steelcity16]

Hi JaseRicco,

"Overpriced" is a value judgement that generally means the the product is not worth the price being charged, in the opinion of the speaker.

Probably some history and "edge-u-cation" might help? We've been making the Tenacious for some time. We use a Chinese steel (8Cr13MoV) in the Tenacious family. For years forumites have been asking for a Tenacious type model, but with a better steel, preferably a US steel.

I designed the Polestar and the Alcyone to be affordable folders, primarily for the Scout market. The Scouts have been enjoying our affordable Chinese made knives. I spent a long time in product development of the designs with many models and prototypes before I was satisfied that the design was as good as it could be given the parameters. I personally enjoy carrying both. The Polestar is a mini Military model with all of the some features (less the finger choil, giving better edge/handle interface) and the Alcyone a smaller version of that. The Polestar also has a a shorter blade than the Military which makes it legal in many areas where the Millie is too long.

Due to the requests on steel, I decided to use a USA made steel that at least one of the makers had the equipment to properly heat treat. That steel was Carpenter's CTS-BD1, which is a refinement of Hitcahi's Gingami I. The added costs is the use of the USA made steel and the makers investment in equipment. I must admit that Eric felt the market would not appreciate the cost difference and it appears as though he was correct. Sales are slow on the 2 models and I have been studying the models to determine the next direction. I thought the gray G-10 might be a detractor, I decided that it is nice subtle color with reasonable texture that is not black.

I'm carrying a Polestar today.

Options:

1) Make the models in China with 8Cr13MoV and black G-10 Which will put it into direct competition with the Tenacious and Efficient.
2) Make the models in Taiwan with a higher grade steel and some other colored G-10. This will make it more expensive, take it out of the affordable range, but produce a **** fine design (IMO) that is highly refined at a very good quality.
3) Make the models in Golden with a special steel like CPM Cruwear and an off color G-10, knowing this would more than double the current price.
4) Try to educate the consumer as to the real value of the knife as is.

Your thoughts?

sal

I'm now planning on picking up a Polestar and Alcyone ASAP as I LOVE my Tenacious and I think BD-1 is a solid steel for my uses. For G10 and BD-1 they are a GREAT value for what you get. I just bought a BD-1 Manix LW the other day for way more than these cost.

The Tenacious is really a phenomenal knife with the perfect ergos, size, blade length, blade shape, etc for my EDC use. The build quality is fantastic for a Chinese made knife I couldn't find a flaw in mine. It is one of Spydercos best designs of all time and I am now very eager to try the Polestar and Alcyone which I somehow kept forgetting about.

If I like them as much as my Tenacious, which I can't see why I wouldn't, then I would definitely love to see a higher end version as well.

I like option 2 and 3 here.

2) I don't know which steels can be used in Taiwan, but being that 4V and CTS-XHP have been used, I would be all about these models on those steels with a standard solid color Peel Ply G10.

3) Made in Golden with CPM-CRUWEAR and a special color Peel Ply G10??? Sal-E Baby! Now you are speaking my language!!! :D

X) This is my wildcard option. :) Made in Golden as Grey FRN Lightweight models with wire clips and DLC CPM-CRUWEAR.

[steelcity16]

I'm thinking that the Polestar's downfall was that the BD-1 steel though. I get that it is a USA steel and an upgrade from the 8Cr13Mov, and I actually like BD-1 in my Manix LW and plan on getting both the Polestar and Alcyone. BUT, I am not sure it was enough of an upgrade to justify a 41% price increase to most people.

I did some back of the napkin (ok, microsoft excel) math comparing relative upgrade costs between BD-1, S30V, CPM-CRUWEAR, and S110V across the Para 3, Manix LW, Polestar and Alcyone. By my math, a CRUWEAR Polestar would have been $77.95 at retail vs. $66.95 at retail for BD-1. The CRUWEAR Alycone would have been $74.17 at retail vs. $63.50 for the current BD-1 version.

Sub-$80 knives in CPM-CRUWEAR with G10, and seriously some of the best designs Spyderco has ever made. Tell me they wouldn't sell those by the container ship full! I'd probably have 5 of each stashed throughout my house, cars, toolboxes, etc.

[p_atrick]

I did some back of the napkin (ok, microsoft excel) math comparing relative upgrade costs...

Out of curiosity, did you have some kind of algorithm you used to calculate the price?

[steelcity16]

I did some back of the napkin (ok, microsoft excel) math comparing relative upgrade costs...

Out of curiosity, did you have some kind of algorithm you used to calculate the price?

Yeah, so basically I first looked at how much a CPM-CRUWEAR Para 3 was relative to an S110V Para 3. Then i took that ratio and applied it to the S110V Manix LW to arrive at assumed price of a Cruwear Manix LW. Now that I have that price I can find the ratio of Cruwear to BD1 using the price of the Manix LW in BD1 and the assumed cost of the Manix LW Cruwear. Then I can apply that ratio to the Map prices of the Polestar and Alcyone to get the assumed cost of of Made in China CRUWEAR Polestar and Alcyone

Another way of looking at it is if the steel itself is a straight dollar amount upgrade and you assume the same upgrade price across the 4 models I am looking at (might be slightly different in reality due to blade size).

So using this method the s110v of the Para 3 is a $45 upgrade from Cruwear (based on MSRP). On the Manix LW, S110V is a $60 upgrade from BD-1 (based on MSRP). So we can determine that Cruwear should then be a $15 upgrade (again, MSRP) from BD-1 if the upgrade costs are the same across these 4 models. So we can then determine the assumed MSRP of the a China Made Cruwear Polestar and Alcyone using the $15 upgrade cost for CRUWEAR vs. their base BD-1 steel. From there we take 65% of the assumed MSRP to get the MAP prices we see from dealers. Doing it this way actually yields an even less expensive upgrade to Cruwear than the first method. But moving to S110V using this method makes that steel a much more costly upgrade.

I have no idea which way they do it. I would really have to look at relative prices across the whole line of Para 3s, PM2, Military, Manix, Native and other models with large varieties of steels to compare relative upgrade costs.

Bottom line is that I would pay $80 or less for a Chinese made CPM-CRUWEAR Polestar and Alcyone (or Tenacious or Persistence) all day long. I don't have a Polestar or Alcyone yet (next on my list), but my Tenacious is really flawless and if it wasn't marked China you would have no idea it wasn't Made in Golden by just inspecting it. There would be nothing on the market even close to the value you would get from these knives. Not even remotely close.

[glutofknives]

I think a golden made polestar in grey g10 and cruwear would fly off the shelves. That or literally any golden knife in rex and burnt orange.

[Bellaru]

I just purchased my first Spyderco! I know right... what took so long! I bought the Alcyone after searching all the products available and over all size was the big factor in the end. I’m not a fan of big knives (7+”) over all. I thought they nailed it for something different in their line. The shape, different then black G-10 and mid level blade material should have knocked it out of the park. I agree the tenacious is a great knife with a great price but I prefer a better edc metal. As for other popular knives out there, I also can’t but think Frn just feels too much like plastic to me. This knife should have had a better presence and sales. I feel the price is fair for what it is and in comparison to similar knives above and below it. Even with having a hard time finding a lot of information on the Alcyone I chose it and love it. Great job guys and I hope it has some better light shone on it.