Hey Sal, any plans for CTS BD1N?

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TomAiello
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Re: Hey Sal, any plans for CTS BD1N?

Postby TomAiello » Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:43 pm

I've been using a BD1N knife in the kitchen recently, to get a feel for the steel.

Honestly, I'm less impressed than I wanted to be. I like it better than MBS-26, but not really any more than VG-10.

I may just have a comparison issue though. Two of my all time favorite knives (Phil Wilson custom B&T in Elmax and TRC K.O. in M390) see _a lot_ of kitchen use, and I think think it would be hard to really wow me when I'm used to using them.

Still, if the price point compares to 8CR13MOV, it's going to be a pretty good upgrade for the budget line.

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Re: Hey Sal, any plans for CTS BD1N?

Postby Deadboxhero » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:36 pm

TomAiello wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:43 pm
I've been using a BD1N knife in the kitchen recently, to get a feel for the steel.

Honestly, I'm less impressed than I wanted to be. I like it better than MBS-26, but not really any more than VG-10.

I may just have a comparison issue though. Two of my all time favorite knives (Phil Wilson custom B&T in Elmax and TRC K.O. in M390) see _a lot_ of kitchen use, and I think think it would be hard to really wow me when I'm used to using them.

Still, if the price point compares to 8CR13MOV, it's going to be a pretty good upgrade for the budget line.
What angles? What grit finish? What stones? Whatcha cutting? :)
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Re: Hey Sal, any plans for CTS BD1N?

Postby awa54 » Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:17 am

Deadboxhero wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 12:32 am


It would be facinating to see a s30v modification with nitrogen added.


You mean in addition to S35VN?
-David

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Re: Hey Sal, any plans for CTS BD1N?

Postby sal » Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:22 am

Hi Tom,

The price difference between CTS-BD1 and 8Cr13MoV is great enough that we believe it's hurting sales of the Polestar and Alcyone.

sal

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Re: Hey Sal, any plans for CTS BD1N?

Postby tvenuto » Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:33 am

awa54 wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:17 am
Deadboxhero wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 12:32 am


It would be facinating to see a s30v modification with nitrogen added.


You mean in addition to S35VN?
The "N" in S35VN refers to Noibium, not nitrogen.
CPM S35VN is a martensitic stainless steel designed to offer improved toughness over CPM S30V. It is also easier to machine and polish than CPM S30V. Its chemistry has been rebalanced so that it forms some niobium carbides along with vanadium and chromium carbides. Substituting niobium carbides for some of the vanadium carbides makes CPM S35VN about 15-20% tougher than CPM S30V without any loss of wear resistance. CPM S35VN’s improved toughness gives it better resistance to edge chipping. Because both vanadium and niobium car bides are harder and more effective than chromium carbides in providing wear resistance, the CPM stainless blade steels offer improved edge retention over conventional high chromium steels such as 440C and D2.

The CPM process produces very homogeneous, high quality steel characterized by superior dimensional stability, grindability, and toughness compared to steels produced by conventional melting practices.

The typical applications include: Long-wearing specialty cutlery, plastic injection and extrusion feed screws and dies, non-return valve components, pelletizing equipment, and wear components for food and chemical processing.
Source: https://www.hudsontoolsteel.com/technic ... elCPMS35VN

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Re: Hey Sal, any plans for CTS BD1N?

Postby TomAiello » Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:51 am

sal wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:22 am
Hi Tom,

The price difference between CTS-BD1 and 8Cr13MoV is great enough that we believe it's hurting sales of the Polestar and Alcyone.

sal

Hmmm. Bummer.

Is it expensive to get BD1N to China? Is it cheaper to use it in Golden models?

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Re: Hey Sal, any plans for CTS BD1N?

Postby sal » Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:01 pm

Carpenter will stock BD1 in China, which is great, because Bringing steel into China is a PITA. It's expensive and there are annual fees as long as it stays in China. So the Chinese maker that can work with it complains that the cost is very high compared to Chinese made steels.

I thought that the use of a USA steel in China would be a plus. Eric thought the higher price would hurt sales. It looks like he was right. Customers that are very cost conscious and are attracted to the "Budget" models, which are made in China, will not see the value in the higher price. I believe Dave expressed this opinion some time ago.

sal

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Re: Hey Sal, any plans for CTS BD1N?

Postby Vivi » Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:33 pm

That and I'd wager someone willing to pay a premium for made in USA, wants as much of the work done in the states as possible.
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Re: Hey Sal, any plans for CTS BD1N?

Postby awa54 » Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:46 pm

tvenuto wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:33 am

The "N" in S35VN refers to Noibium, not nitrogen.

yep, got that wrong.... it's CPM S30V that already has nitrogen!


sal wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:01 pm
Carpenter will stock BD1 in China, which is great, because Bringing steel into China is a PITA. It's expensive and there are annual fees as long as it stays in China. So the Chinese maker that can work with it complains that the cost is very high compared to Chinese made steels.

I thought that the use of a USA steel in China would be a plus. Eric thought the higher price would hurt sales. It looks like he was right. Customers that are very cost conscious and are attracted to the "Budget" models, which are made in China, will not see the value in the higher price. I believe Dave expressed this opinion some time ago.

sal

Has Spyderco ever considered using D2 as an "upgrade" steel for the Chinese made product line? It seems like other makers are doing it for just a few bucks more per unit than basic stainless versions.
Last edited by awa54 on Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hey Sal, any plans for CTS BD1N?

Postby Eli Chaps » Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:58 pm

While I only have one knife in BD1N at the moment, I freaking love the stuff so far. So receptive to sharpening but holds it's edge well and my experience is it can get pretty thin and stay tough.

I really want a translucent M2LW to go with other flavors I have but I've been holding out in hopes that BD1N comes along.

Sal, is there still plans for that?

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Re: Hey Sal, any plans for CTS BD1N?

Postby sal » Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:30 pm

Vivi wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:33 pm
That and I'd wager someone willing to pay a premium for made in USA, wants as much of the work done in the states as possible.
I tend to agree with you based on the demand for our Golden made models.

sal

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Re: Hey Sal, any plans for CTS BD1N?

Postby Deadboxhero » Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:49 pm

sal wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:01 pm
Carpenter will stock BD1 in China, which is great, because Bringing steel into China is a PITA. It's expensive and there are annual fees as long as it stays in China. So the Chinese maker that can work with it complains that the cost is very high compared to Chinese made steels.

I thought that the use of a USA steel in China would be a plus. Eric thought the higher price would hurt sales. It looks like he was right. Customers that are very cost conscious and are attracted to the "Budget" models, which are made in China, will not see the value in the higher price. I believe Dave expressed this opinion some time ago.

sal
Image

I've had all three for a while. I think the big problem is that there isn't a lot of information quantifing the differences between the Bd1 and the 8cr13mov. Most of the steel testers put it at the bottom so that hurts when people look up the steel for review to see if it's worth the extra cost and it's not very impressive

That's a shame, I like the Bd1 more then the 8cr13mov. It deburrs like a champ and takes a very nice edge. The 8cr13mov is horrible to deburr. The burr was very stubborn so I thought it was defective.

I bought another one to double check, Also similar, Perhaps its inherit to the steel, protocol or manufacturing?
I bought some other 8cr13mov knives from crkt, Kershaw and pulled out my schrade to double check my experience. Same thing.
Idk, it's still a good knife and a good steel, just splitting hairs about the nitty gritty details.



I like the tenacious design more then the polestar Design.

It Feels and looks more utilitarian and robust, but I like the blade shape and construction of the polestar, just not a fan of the Raven 2 style handle nor the grid pattern G10.

I can't speak for everyone, but I think the tenacious is just a more popular design.

You guys should do tenacious with Bd1.

In fact, just go bd1n. I hope you guys shoot for the 63hrc too, it's not brittle at that hardness and that's where it really shines, it's even recommend on the data sheet as a tempered working hardness.

I hope we see a golden Spyderco in bd1n. Your boys there seem to really deal in the fit and finish and heat treatment.
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Re: Hey Sal, any plans for CTS BD1N?

Postby ABX2011 » Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:23 am

Would be awesome to see the Tenacious with a steel upgrade as a sprint or dealer exclusive.

If the steel has to be Chinese, why not use 9Cr18 like WE on the new Civivi line.

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Re: Hey Sal, any plans for CTS BD1N?

Postby p_atrick » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:47 am

If BD1 or BD1N makes more sense on a Golden model, which one?

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Re: Hey Sal, any plans for CTS BD1N?

Postby BornIn1500 » Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:17 pm

sal wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:01 pm
Customers that are very cost conscious and are attracted to the "Budget" models, which are made in China, will not see the value in the higher price.


Funny you say that, but I did choose the Polestar over the Tenacious because I saw the Polestar as a perfect compromise between the affordability of being made in China while still incorporating good US steel. I can see how not many normal customers will realize the difference in steel, though, let alone care. At least some of us newcomers appreciated what you were doing.

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Re: Hey Sal, any plans for CTS BD1N?

Postby sal » Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:02 pm

Hi ABX,

The maker of the Tenacious doesn't like to work with other steels than 8Cr.....at least at this time.

Thanx BornIn,

I carry the Polestar quite a bit. In my opinion, it's one of my better designs. But it seems the market doesn't agree. :o

sal

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Re: Hey Sal, any plans for CTS BD1N?

Postby Eli Chaps » Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:32 am

sal wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:02 pm
Hi ABX,

The maker of the Tenacious doesn't like to work with other steels than 8Cr.....at least at this time.

Thanx BornIn,

I carry the Polestar quite a bit. In my opinion, it's one of my better designs. But it seems the market doesn't agree. :o

sal
Sal, don't I remember you saying the Polestar was designed with Boyscouts in mind or was that a different model? I know a young scout who is wanting a "real knife" and have been asked for recommendations and thought would make a nice connection.

Sorry for the brief hijack. :)

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Re: Hey Sal, any plans for CTS BD1N?

Postby sal » Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:58 am

Hi Eli,

Yes, that's true of both the Polestar and the Alcyone. I would recommend either to any scout.

sal

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Re: Hey Sal, any plans for CTS BD1N?

Postby Eli Chaps » Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:11 am

sal wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:58 am
Hi Eli,

Yes, that's true of both the Polestar and the Alcyone. I would recommend either to any scout.

sal
Thank you sir.


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