Red Loctite - An Official Statement from Spyderco

[dezoe]

Great news. This is how you handle customer complaints/feedback :)

[soundshaman]

At this point, there's little sense dragging them over the coals for past statements and policies. What's important is that they've just defined one clear policy from here, going forward. And, at least to my sensibilities, it's the right one.

I was just thinking of saying the same thing. I've been taking knives apart too and haven't sent anything back for warranty. My knives work great.

[dezoe]

At this point, there's little sense dragging them over the coals for past statements and policies. What's important is that they've just defined one clear policy from here, going forward. And, at least to my sensibilities, it's the right one.

Exactly. This is a good manufacturer that is trying to better them selves. It is good news!

[SG89]

At this point, there's little sense dragging them over the coals for past statements and policies. What's important is that they've just defined one clear policy from here, going forward. And, at least to my sensibilities, it's the right one.

Is it weird that I read this comment in your YouTube video voice...

[PayneTrain]

Wow. Thank you MJ for taking the time to address us so thoroughly, and of course to the entire crew for addressing the issue itself. Who's better than you guys?!

Though as we are talking about user-created damage, I thought one thing should probably be made overly clear because just based on the sheer number of owners, you know it's going to happen.

How to Remove Stubborn Screws from a Knife

According to the manufacturers of Loctite 263, the red Loctite used on Spyderco’s US-made knives, screws treated with it can be removed by applying heat. However, its specifications state that a temperature of more than 360 degrees Fahrenheit must be reached for it to soften. Such temperatures could easily damage the scales and other components of your knife. Instead, we recommend the following process:

1) Ensure that you have the proper size Torx® driver for your screws and that the driver head is in good condition. A single-piece, screwdriver-style driver works best.
2) Place your knife on a workbench or other hard surface. Use a paper towel or rag to protect the handle from scratches.
3) Insert the tip of the Torx driver into the screw head and ensure that it fits properly.
4) Tap the handle of the driver several times with a hammer to “shock” the screw and break the Loctite bond.
5) Maintain a firm, constant, downward pressure on the Torx driver as you rotate it to remove the screw.
6) If this method is not successful on the first try, repeat as necessary or return your knife to Spyderco with $5.00 for return shipping. We will loosen your knife’s screws upon request.

This does mean to tap DOWNWARD on the end of the handle, correct? Not sideways in a turning motion, as if to create your own little impact driver. I can see it now, especially for people who have L-shaped Torx wrenches like me where it's even easier to misconstrue the meaning of that instruction and very quickly and efficiently strip the head, especially with a low quality bit.

[nyy1176]

This is a great change of policy. I thank you as a fairly new fan & user!

[Joris Mo]

Nice to see this stuff getting sorted, never been much of an issue for me but then again living in EU warranty can be nice but quite expensive if you have to pay the international shipping fees and risk getting import taxes for your own knife when it gets returned.
Have only had great experiences dealing with Spyderco direct for getting screws or extra clips and the like.

[Slumblor]

Spyderco stands behind the original materials and workmanship of our products. If a customer disassembles one of our knives and reassembles properly so its adjustment and operation are consistent with original factory specifications, the knife’s warranty remains in effect. If, however, a knife is disassembled and reassembled improperly, the proper operation of the knife and its component parts could easily be compromised. That would void the knife’s warranty.

Truth be told, our Warranty Repair technicians receive knives that have been disassembled all the time. In most cases, the knives have been reassembled with proper attention to detail so as not to compromise the proper mechanical function of the knife. If that's the case and one of the parts fails because of a defect in materials or workmanship, they exercise their discretion to repair or replace it at no charge as if the warranty were still in full force. Because the warranty is technically void, they are not OBLIGATED to honor it, but CHOOSE to.

After reading the original post i was pleased to see the clarification of the warranty policy as I've always wondered about the interpretation or misinterpretation. My interpretation would be that as long as there was no damage caused by disassembly the warranty would still be valid. But after Deacon pointed out Taz's post from 2010, the response seems to contradict the original. Does the warranty remain in effect or are you choosing to honor it?

[TALON52]

At this point, there's little sense dragging them over the coals for past statements and policies. What's important is that they've just defined one clear policy from here, going forward. And, at least to my sensibilities, it's the right one.

I agree with Nick, let's move on. :)

[Sharp Guy]

Great news! I think this thread, or at least Mike's first post, should be stickied at the top of the forum.

At this point, there's little sense dragging them over the coals for past statements and policies. What's important is that they've just defined one clear policy from here, going forward. And, at least to my sensibilities, it's the right one.

I agree with Nick, let's move on. :)

Yep! Let's just move forward from here!

Is it weird that I read this comment in your YouTube video voice...

Ha! Me too!

[Mic1]

Moving on!

[abbazaba]

At this point, there's little sense dragging them over the coals for past statements and policies. What's important is that they've just defined one clear policy from here, going forward. And, at least to my sensibilities, it's the right one.

+1. Thanks Spyderco!

[Cabbiechad]

:) Thank you Spyderco for listening and caring.

[jalcon]

After reading the original post i was pleased to see the clarification of the warranty policy as I've always wondered about the interpretation or misinterpretation. My interpretation would be that as long as there was no damage caused by disassembly the warranty would still be valid. But after Deacon pointed out Taz's post from 2010, the response seems to contradict the original. Does the warranty remain in effect or are you choosing to honor it?

My God, make it stop..

[murphjd25]

Thank you to everyone at Spyderco! Now let's move on there's more spydies to buy!!

[Nate]

To All:

...
Spyderco’s use of high-strength Loctite on our US-made products actually dates back more than a decade. We chose this threadlocking compound after extensive in-house testing and an in-depth review of the knives that were returned to us for warranty repair. That research showed that the use of medium-strength Loctite resulted in more frequent loss of individual screws from knives and a higher percentage of knives being returned for issues related to screw tension.

High-strength Loctite was also chosen because it allowed us to achieve a much higher degree of consistency in the manufacturing process. Loctite’s strength is measured at two levels: Its “break” strength is its initial resistance to torque after it cures, while its “prevail” strength is its resistance to torque after the initial bond has been broken. Since medium-strength Loctite offers a much lower “prevail’ strength than the high-strength formula, we chose the latter. This choice was critically important because of the special two-step process we use in our US factory to adjust our blade pivots. After the initial assembly and adjustment of each knife, the Loctite is allowed to cure overnight before the knife is rechecked and readjusted to ensure optimal blade tension. A higher “prevail’ strength also allows screws to retain their tension much better if they are adjusted by end users.

High-strength Loctite was also our preferred choice because we use stainless steel assembly screws in our knives instead of the oxide-coated carbon steel screws used by many of our competitors. Although the oxide coating works better with medium-strength Loctite, the screws themselves are vulnerable to corrosion. High-strength Loctite provides vastly superior threadlocking performance on our stainless steel screws....

I may be alone in the wilderness here, but to me it sounds like Spyderco is being forced to roll back on CQI and efficiency. Awesome? Can everyone cheering the change promise not to whine about the occasional loose or lost screw? Or the rusted screws if they have to go back to the carbon/oxide ones?

I guess it's the right move given the position they're in and I don't expect to see much impact personally, but the whole thing has been sort of disturbing to watch. This stuff isn't some insurmountable barrier to anyone who wants to tinker or do some extreme cleaning and maintenance. I hope people are happy and that this works out positively for Spyderco though.

On the warranty, I don't think there's much point in dwelling on statements made 6-7 yrs ago, but I really appreciate the perspective Michael shared. Sending Spyderco a bag of parts and asking them to re-assemble the knife it isn't a warranty claim! I can only imagine what must have being going on back then. In the end, it turns out the warranty is what I always thought it was.

[Bodog]

It's obvious where they stand now and its clear they will honor the warranty as it's stood for a long time and they're wiping away all of the stuff that's clearly been expressed or implied for as long as I've been watching knife forums. All of the inaccurate information passed around and allowed by spyderco reps for whatever reason was just stopped. That's good. Anyone that's followed Spyderco for any length of time knows that the reps pushed the idea that the stated policy was not going to be followed as a matter of policy but more as a favor. People who knew better knew that was bs didn't question it that much because the written policy overrides written statements by reps over the years.

Regardless, it's crystal clear now and I'm sure a couple of spyderco's reps are tucking their tails a little bit because what they said was clearly wrong. It doesn't matter in the slightest. The wrong has been made right and us spyderco fans can rest easy knowing our favorite large scale maker listens, clarifies, and rights wrongs. Most of us knew that anyway but were waiting for spyderco to reinforce it.

Let them save some face, it's no skin off any of our backs. It's not the first nor probably the last that Kristi or Charlynn or whoever will take a stance that Sal repudiates. Look at the bearing issue. Totally different stances between W/R and Sal's public statements.


Now with this clarified as soon as the bearing issue is fixed I'll be the first in line for an advocate 2. Or at least I hope they differentiate between the first run and subsequent runs. I'm sure there don't be a lot buying the first run if the second run has better action.

[anagarika]

I live far away and warranty is practically out for me. Charlynn has been very helpful with some clip screws when it stripped out in my Cara Cara 2. At that time I didn't know about the trick as shared by Mike. It definitely will reduce problems.

Last night I just took my Stretch apart and found the liner rusting a bit (the side attached to scale). I found that with my sweat, this often happens and without taking apart, it can become more serious, compromising the structural strength of the liner if the rust goes deeper & wider. A good autosol rub and reapply oil is what I do. I live in tropical area and have particularly acidic sweat. Can't help it.
Now I know the warranty isn't voided help to make me feel a bit better, so thanks Spyderco .

I'd like to share my respect & appreciation to the listening, deliberation and finally decision.

The humility to admit what was said before, the explanation to the circumstances that triggered the stronger statements were given are qualities that will keep Spyderco being on the highest scale respectable company.

In my line of work, I also have to make decisions based on the policy and occasionally rewrite the policy. All that transpired (FFG color E4, Kristi and Mike older statements) totally makes sense. I've since learnt to ask questions (rather thn accusations) about other people's policy and decisions. The blue vs red loctite change is definitely a compromise, but one taken considering many factors.

I hope these qualities kept being embodied as it's getting rare these days.
Kudos :cool: :spyder:

[ejames13]

Am I the only one still confused about the warranty policy?? I thought the stated policy was pretty clear "DAMAGE caused by disassembly" voids the warranty. Disassembly does not. But then the past quotes from Michael and Kristi seem to contradict that. So which is it?

As Michael Janich stated in post #1:

"We are currently in the process of refining the official wording of our warranty to make it clearer and address changes in the industry like aftermarket accessories. Our complete warranty policy, as expressed on our web site, will always remain the official reference for the most up-to-date terms of our warranty coverage."

OK. But then after his original post there are quotes from him and Kristi saying the disassembly voids your warranty. PERIOD. :confused:

Wow Holy reading comprehension! Go back to see that these were older posts.

First, you don't have to be rude.

Second, I realize they were older posts. I'm not trying to rake them over the coals, just trying to clarify because I found Michael's second post somewhat contradictory.

[paladin]

Is this a retroactive policy change that would include old models under the new warranty umbrella...like, say, a Kukri or Barong?

And would stripped pivot screws and frame screws on the older, discontinued models be covered effective today?