Red Loctite - An Official Statement from Spyderco

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
Michael Janich
Member
Posts: 1409
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
Location: Longmont, CO USA
Contact:

Red Loctite - An Official Statement from Spyderco

Postby Michael Janich » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:50 am

To All:

In recent months, there has been a lot of discussion concerning Spyderco’s use of red “high-strength” Loctite® on the screws of our knives. Unfortunately, this has also resulted in some misunderstandings with regard to our choice of this threadlocking product and our warranty policies. This official statement is intended to clarify the issue and announce several important changes to our policies and practices.

First of all, please know that we do, in fact, listen to our customers. We always have, and we always will. Our staff has closely followed your comments on this topic and our Management and Warranty Repair teams have discussed and researched this issue very thoroughly.
Spyderco’s use of high-strength Loctite on our US-made products actually dates back more than a decade. We chose this threadlocking compound after extensive in-house testing and an in-depth review of the knives that were returned to us for warranty repair. That research showed that the use of medium-strength Loctite resulted in more frequent loss of individual screws from knives and a higher percentage of knives being returned for issues related to screw tension.

High-strength Loctite was also chosen because it allowed us to achieve a much higher degree of consistency in the manufacturing process. Loctite’s strength is measured at two levels: Its “break” strength is its initial resistance to torque after it cures, while its “prevail” strength is its resistance to torque after the initial bond has been broken. Since medium-strength Loctite offers a much lower “prevail’ strength than the high-strength formula, we chose the latter. This choice was critically important because of the special two-step process we use in our US factory to adjust our blade pivots. After the initial assembly and adjustment of each knife, the Loctite is allowed to cure overnight before the knife is rechecked and readjusted to ensure optimal blade tension. A higher “prevail’ strength also allows screws to retain their tension much better if they are adjusted by end users.

High-strength Loctite was also our preferred choice because we use stainless steel assembly screws in our knives instead of the oxide-coated carbon steel screws used by many of our competitors. Although the oxide coating works better with medium-strength Loctite, the screws themselves are vulnerable to corrosion. High-strength Loctite provides vastly superior threadlocking performance on our stainless steel screws.
For the vast majority of our customers, our decision to use high-strength Loctite had no real impact, since they do not disassemble their knives. However, as aftermarket parts for our knives (replacement scales, backspacers, etc.) became increasingly popular, more and more people had the desire to disassemble their Spyderco knives. Most used proper tools and technique and were successful; however, a number of them did experience challenges and frustration. Our Warranty Repair technicians frequently resolved these problems by having the owner return the knife to us and loosening the screws at the customer’s specific request. However, as this topic escalated and became of greater concern to our customers, we knew we needed a better solution.

To address this issue properly, Spyderco has done an extensive review of our Warranty Repair records, as well as in-depth research on the aftermarket parts industry. We have also read and reread our customers’ forum and social media posts on all aspects of the “red Loctite” issue. After careful consideration, we have decided to change our internal practices effective immediately to use medium-strength Loctite in the assembly of all our US-made knives. We hope that this change will make our knives easier for our customers to maintain and customize.

Please note that our factories in Taiwan, Japan, Italy, and China use different, locally sourced threadlocking compounds on the knives they manufacture. We are currently researching those compounds and other available choices to achieve consistent threadlocking standards across our entire product line.

Concurrent with our change to medium-strength Loctite, we are also amending our warranty policy, which has unfortunately been misunderstood as it applies to this topic and the disassembly of our knives in general. Currently, our policy states “Spyderco’s warranty does not cover damage caused by abuse, misuse, loss, improper handling, alterations, accident, neglect, disassembly, or improper sharpening.” Please note that it specifies “…damage caused by…disassembly.” This aspect of our warranty has been widely misinterpreted to infer that disassembly of a Spyderco knife automatically voids its warranty. This is not the case.

Spyderco stands behind the original materials and workmanship of our products. If a customer disassembles one of our knives and reassembles properly so its adjustment and operation are consistent with original factory specifications, the knife’s warranty remains in effect. If, however, a knife is disassembled and reassembled improperly, the proper operation of the knife and its component parts could easily be compromised. That would void the knife’s warranty.

Similarly, any alterations to a Spyderco knife or replacement of parts with non-Spyderco components could adversely affect the proper functioning of the knife and void the warranty. As always, we will try to give every Spyderco customer the benefit of the doubt when considering warranty claims; however, the determination as to whether a knife was “properly” reassembled is at our sole discretion and will be made on a case-by-case basis. If a knife has been customized through the addition of non-mechanical parts (such as aftermarket scales), Spyderco may still choose to warrant the materials and workmanship of the original Spyderco components of the knife, provided the alteration and reassembly did not compromise their proper function.

We are currently in the process of refining the official wording of our warranty to make it clearer and address changes in the industry like aftermarket accessories. Our complete warranty policy, as expressed on our web site, will always remain the official reference for the most up-to-date terms of our warranty coverage.

Finally, if you currently own a Spyderco knife with screw-together construction that you would like to disassemble and are having difficulty removing the screws, please see the how-to tips listed below for the method our Warranty Repair technicians use to remove Loctite-secured screws. You can also return your knife to us with a return-shipping fee of $5.00 and we will loosen the screws for you. We will not, however, completely disassemble knives for our customers.

We hope this announcement addresses all our customers’ concerns on this topic and that you’re pleased with our decision. Spyderco works very hard at listening to our customers. Listening is easy; making the right choices to implement smart changes takes more time. Thank you for your patience with our efforts to do things right.

Stay safe,

Mike

How to Remove Stubborn Screws from a Knife

According to the manufacturers of Loctite 263, the red Loctite used on Spyderco’s US-made knives, screws treated with it can be removed by applying heat. However, its specifications state that a temperature of more than 360 degrees Fahrenheit must be reached for it to soften. Such temperatures could easily damage the scales and other components of your knife. Instead, we recommend the following process:

1) Ensure that you have the proper size Torx® driver for your screws and that the driver head is in good condition. A single-piece, screwdriver-style driver works best.
2) Place your knife on a workbench or other hard surface. Use a paper towel or rag to protect the handle from scratches.
3) Insert the tip of the Torx driver into the screw head and ensure that it fits properly.
4) Tap the handle of the driver several times with a hammer to “shock” the screw and break the Loctite bond.
5) Maintain a firm, constant, downward pressure on the Torx driver as you rotate it to remove the screw.
6) If this method is not successful on the first try, repeat as necessary or return your knife to Spyderco with $5.00 for return shipping. We will loosen your knife’s screws upon request.

Taypo
Member
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 7:03 am

Re: Red Loctite - An Official Statement from Spyderco

Postby Taypo » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:09 am

I'd say that pretty much covers that issue. Thank you.

akaAK
Member
Posts: 830
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:41 pm
Location: TO Canada

Re: Red Loctite - An Official Statement from Spyderco

Postby akaAK » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:09 am

Much appreciated. As always a reasonable and fair approach. This is why Spyderco keeps getting my disposable knife income

User avatar
Bloke
Member
Posts: 452
Joined: Fri May 13, 2016 12:43 am
Location: Sydney, Australia.

Re: Red Loctite - An Official Statement from Spyderco

Postby Bloke » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:22 am

Wonderful outcome! :)

Bravo Zulu Spyderco! :cool:

Katahdin
Member
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:50 am

Re: Red Loctite - An Official Statement from Spyderco

Postby Katahdin » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:36 am

You are probably familiar with this product, but on the off chance you are not, I will pass it along. I have used the VC-3 in other applications and been pleased with its performance.

https://www.vibra-tite.com/product-cate ... adlockers/

User avatar
elena86
Member
Posts: 1468
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2010 6:59 am
Location: Somewhere in Europe

Re: Red Loctite - An Official Statement from Spyderco

Postby elena86 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:37 am

Well done Spyderco.Wise decision :spyder:

Marius

User avatar
Spydergirl88
Member
Posts: 2482
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:42 pm
Location: Texas

Re: Red Loctite - An Official Statement from Spyderco

Postby Spydergirl88 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:40 am

Thanks
:spyder: My Spydie-Sense is tingling! :eek: :D :spyder:
Waiting on the Chap FRN, Rhino, H1 Manbug, Manix2 Backlock, Swayback :cool:
https://www.instagram.com/spydergirl88insta/

Bodog
Member
Posts: 1029
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:03 am

Re: Red Loctite - An Official Statement from Spyderco

Postby Bodog » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:41 am

That's awesome

Tim_B_Riding
Member
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:08 am

Re: Red Loctite - An Official Statement from Spyderco

Postby Tim_B_Riding » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:55 am

Thank you very much. This is awesome! It re-affirms my loyalty to Spyderco.

User avatar
Evil D
Member
Posts: 14713
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:48 pm
Location: Northern KY

Re: Red Loctite - An Official Statement from Spyderco

Postby Evil D » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:57 am

Sweet. Now I await for the half hour long apology videos from some You Tube soap boxers out there. Eat those words boys. :D
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

User avatar
The Deacon
Member
Posts: 23583
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
Location: Upstate SC, USA
Contact:

Re: Red Loctite - An Official Statement from Spyderco

Postby The Deacon » Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:02 am

Michael Janich wrote:Concurrent with our change to medium-strength Loctite, we are also amending our warranty policy, which has unfortunately been misunderstood as it applies to this topic and the disassembly of our knives in general. Currently, our policy states “Spyderco’s warranty does not cover damage caused by abuse, misuse, loss, improper handling, alterations, accident, neglect, disassembly, or improper sharpening.” Please note that it specifies “…damage caused by…disassembly.” This aspect of our warranty has been widely misinterpreted to infer that disassembly of a Spyderco knife automatically voids its warranty. This is not the case.

In fairness, Michael, the statement that you are now labeling as a "misinterpretation" of Spyderco policy was the direct result of the post below in this thread started by Kristi on this Forum. Kristi's statement seemed crystal clear at the time, and this is the first time it's being contradicted.

TazKristi wrote:Hey ya'll. Reading through a few different threads this morning and a couple of things popped out at me that I think need to be clarified.

1st - Disassembling a Spyderco voids the warranty. Period. There was a question about this being a "myth". It is not a myth. It does not matter if you don't break anything when you do it. If we can tell that a knife has been disassembled (whether it's a FrankenSpyder or not) the warranty is technically void. We manufacture knives with all screw construction not because we want you to take them apart. We do so, so our Crew can take them apart for maintenance and repair. I'm sure there might be some other questions, but bottom line, if you take your knife apart, the warranty is void.

Every item that is sent in to W&R is evaluated individually and on a case by case basis. Every situation is different. We will always handle W&R issues in a fair and proper way. But it's important to understand the warranty as we state it, not as it's interpreted by others. There are a lot of great, knowledgeable, helpful people on our Forum. However, they cannot make a judgment on a Warranty issue. Only we can and we can only do that by having the knife in question in our hands.


2nd - Lightweight Manix2 Country of Origin is the U.S.A. The Lightweight Manix2 will be made using FRCP, Fiberglass Reinforced Co-Polymer. Not FRN. It will be produced right here in Golden, CO by our amazing Crew.
Paul
My Personal Website ---- Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting ---- Spydiewiki
Deplorable :p
WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!

User avatar
Larry_Mott
Member
Posts: 687
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:00 am
Location: Sweden

Re: Red Loctite - An Official Statement from Spyderco

Postby Larry_Mott » Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:21 am

Happy to see a "happy ending" of this (for me personally, non)issue. Also thanks for the clarifiaction regarding disassembly!
Keep up the good work!

User avatar
wrdwrght
Member
Posts: 1375
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:35 am
Location: New Hampshire

Re: Red Loctite - An Official Statement from Spyderco

Postby wrdwrght » Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:26 am

Classy, but where's the surprise?
Marc

RECENT ARRIVAL: 2008 Manix sprint (C95GPFG). ON RADAR: Police4; PE leaf Caribbean; 52100 PM2 sprint. IN DREAMS: LC200N or Maxamet Manix2 Backlock; Maxamet Para3; Slysz Swayback; Native Shaman; Native Chief.

daknight
Member
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 7:23 am
Location: Germany

Re: Red Loctite - An Official Statement from Spyderco

Postby daknight » Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:30 am

Sounds good to me!
Dragonfly G-10, Blurple PM2, Para3, Jani-Song, Dragonfly2 ZDP-189

User avatar
D-Roc
Member
Posts: 417
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 10:31 am
Location: Bohica
Contact:

Re: Red Loctite - An Official Statement from Spyderco

Postby D-Roc » Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:44 am

Très clair....
Great news. Glad to hear my C36 BG-42 that I disassembled once is still under warranty.
Odd that is rusted so much that one time, and not since. Probably something I was doing wrong. I'm pretty careful with my maintenance, usually.
Great explanation, very clear, great news.
Last edited by D-Roc on Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
:spyder: MEMBRE DE L'ORDRE INTERNATIONALE SPYDEREDGE :spyder:

User avatar
Haste
Member
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2017 1:26 pm

Re: Red Loctite - An Official Statement from Spyderco

Postby Haste » Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:44 am

I've been following this from afar.
Taking no notice of The Deacon's post - I'm very pleased with this outcome.

Thanks Spyderco!

AwayFromMySpydieHole
Member
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:20 pm

Re: Red Loctite - An Official Statement from Spyderco

Postby AwayFromMySpydieHole » Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:56 am

Haste wrote:I've been following this from afar.
Taking no notice of The Deacon's post - I'm very pleased with this outcome.

Thanks Spyderco!



Taking no notice of The Deacons post......why? Because you'd rather have your head in the sand and not accept that your favorite brand might have said/done anything even slightly head scratching?


The deacon raised a fair point, and it should be addressed as to what the EXACT policy regarding the warranty is, because it seems like there is some confusion even within spyderco.

And don't call me a hater, I own literally hundreds of spyderco knives.

User avatar
NickShabazz
Member
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2016 8:48 am
Contact:

Re: Red Loctite - An Official Statement from Spyderco

Postby NickShabazz » Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:03 am

Spectacular. There goes my money. :) Thanks, Spyderco!
Last edited by NickShabazz on Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Loving the Slysz and the rest of Spyderco's gems. Check out my reviews at https://www.youtube.com/c/nickshabazz!

adamlau
Member
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:04 am

Re: Red Loctite - An Official Statement from Spyderco

Postby adamlau » Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:09 am

Awesome. I shall celebrate by buying another Spyderco!

AwayFromMySpydieHole
Member
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:20 pm

Re: Red Loctite - An Official Statement from Spyderco

Postby AwayFromMySpydieHole » Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:17 am

adamlau wrote:Awesome. I shall celebrate by buying another Spyderco!



Buying another Spyderco isn't a celebration.


It's just called Thursday.


:D


Return to “Spyderco General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ankerson, Baidu [Spider], Bing [Bot], Bodog, Capt'n Boatsalot, Hgwxx7, John E, npad69, pete bogman, Sharp Guy, Slumblor, The Deacon and 28 guests