Spyderco Ouroboros

[SpeedHoles]

[SolidState]

This knife even chased the Introvert out of my pocket this month. It is a design treasure, and has a lot to teach about the compression lock. Smart internal pin Paul, smart internal pin!

[NickShabazz]

The design of this knife really is something else, Solidstate, I agree. Every time I carry it, the smart-ness of the design jumps out at me.

I really hope Paul does some other collaborations with Spyderco, maybe even a slightly large Ouroboros, and I'd love to see some Golden or Taichung Sprint Runs of the Ouro in better steels and materials. And I'm still hoping to source some real washers which fit the knife to let the existing model reach excellence.

My full review will go live tomorrow morning, fwiw.

[swigert]

The design of this knife really is something else, Solidstate, I agree. Every time I carry it, the smart-ness of the design jumps out at me.

I really hope Paul does some other collaborations with Spyderco, maybe even a slightly large Ouroboros, and I'd love to see some Golden or Taichung Sprint Runs of the Ouro in better steels and materials. And I'm still hoping to source some real washers which fit the knife to let the existing model reach excellence.

My full review will go live tomorrow morning, fwiw.

Ouro XL ftw?

[SpeedHoles]

The design of this knife really is something else, Solidstate, I agree. Every time I carry it, the smart-ness of the design jumps out at me.

I really hope Paul does some other collaborations with Spyderco, maybe even a slightly large Ouroboros, and I'd love to see some Golden or Taichung Sprint Runs of the Ouro in better steels and materials. And I'm still hoping to source some real washers which fit the knife to let the existing model reach excellence.

My full review will go live tomorrow morning, fwiw.

How did the return to Spyderco work out, for the torn spacer?

[NickShabazz]

Ouro XL ftw?

That'd be incredible. I really hope that we see more work from Paul and Spyderco in the future, as it really is a unique and excellent design.

How did the return to Spyderco work out, for the torn spacer?

They were absolutely classy and trouble-free. Mailed them the Ouriginal ( :D ), then two weeks later, had a brand new in box knife on my doorstep with a kind letter. They handled it as well as can be expected. Not happy the issue was there, but very happy with how it was handled.

If anybody's curious, my full review of the knife is now online: https://youtu.be/pVtlIBfaiH0 . In short, an absolutely stellar design, but let down a bit by the implementation and achilles washers, which in turn make the price hard to swallow. But with a bit of CQI on the washer front, or a second revision down the road, or perhaps even some DIY phosphor bronze, it could be a hit-out-of-the-park.

[ChrisinHove]

Ouro XL ftw?

That'd be incredible. I really hope that we see more work from Paul and Spyderco in the future, as it really is a unique and excellent design.

How did the return to Spyderco work out, for the torn spacer?

They were absolutely classy and trouble-free. Mailed them the Ouriginal ( :D ), then two weeks later, had a brand new in box knife on my doorstep with a kind letter. They handled it as well as can be expected. Not happy the issue was there, but very happy with how it was handled.

If anybody's curious, my full review of the knife is now online: https://youtu.be/pVtlIBfaiH0 . In short, an absolutely stellar design, but let down a bit by the implementation and achilles washers, which in turn make the price hard to swallow. But with a bit of CQI on the washer front, or a second revision down the road, or perhaps even some DIY phosphor bronze, it could be a hit-out-of-the-park.

Great review. Dynamic and detailed.

The Ouroboros is the equivalent of US$300 from its only stockist here in the U.K. :eek:

[dsvirsky]

I have an Ouroboros on its way to my mailbox. What sold me on this knife is the dropped edge, which offers some nice advantages in terms of both safety and utility. I only have two other folders in my collection that offer this feature and both are customs.

Is the price a little high for the materials? Maybe, but I trust there's an underlying manufacturing reason for this. Is VG-10 the latest, greatest steel? No, but it's perfectly adequate and, in normal use, the difference in performance between VG-10 and anything except the super steels is meaningless to me. Teflon washers? I don't understand the fuss: the Dodo was manufactured with Teflon washers and mine has seen a fair amount of use -- much harder use than the Ouroboros is likely to see -- over the last dozen years with no problems.

[SpeedHoles]

I have an Ouroboros on its way to my mailbox. What sold me on this knife is the dropped edge, which offers some nice advantages in terms of both safety and utility. I only have two other folders in my collection that offer this feature and both are customs.

Is the price a little high for the materials? Maybe, but I trust there's a underlying manufacturing reason for this. Is VG-10 the latest, greatest steel? No, but it's perfectly adequate and, in normal use, the difference in performance between VG-10 and anything except the super steels is meaningless to me. Teflon washers? I don't understand the fuss: the Dodo was manufactured with Teflon washers and mine has seen a fair amount of use -- much harder use than the Ouroboros is likely to see -- over the last dozen years with no problems.

That's where I'm at with this.
Have carried this knife the most out of any of mine in the past month. It is quickly becoming part of my hand. I like it just about as much as my Caly, and with a quicker release to close with the Comp-lock.

Unfortunately for me, I just jumped out of my truck way too fast, and snagged the clip (in my back pocket) into the opening in the seat edge where the seat belt attaches and bent the clip straight outward! My fault, and wasn't the first time doing it either.
Now I'll have to unscrew the clip and see if I can bend it back, or maybe just order another. (Is this the same clip as the Dragonfly, anybody know off hand?)

[NickShabazz]

Is this the same clip as the Dragonfly, anybody know off hand?)

I haven't cross-tested, but they look identical. Also, I'd appreciate a trigger warning with clip unbending gore.

[paulwa]

Is this the same clip as the Dragonfly, anybody know off hand?

That's what I requested, but haven't verified it is 100% identical.

[bwunger]

If only they had used HAP40 and phosphor bronze washers... sprint run maybe?

[paulwa]

... or perhaps even some DIY phosphor bronze, it could be a hit-out-of-the-park.

I've been looking for an "off the shelf" swap out, myself, but couldn't find an exact fit. Been working on resizing some washers in various ways and finally found a process that works very well (got a set running in my Ouroboros now, and the action is exactly how I like it, just a hair north of self-dropping at disengagement of the lock, and without any play).

PM me Nick, and I'll share more details on the parts and process.

- Paul

[NickShabazz]

... or perhaps even some DIY phosphor bronze, it could be a hit-out-of-the-park.

I've been looking for an "off the shelf" swap out, myself, but couldn't find an exact fit. Been working on resizing some washers in various ways and finally found a process that works very well (got a set running in my Ouroboros now, and the action is exactly how I like it, just a hair north of self-dropping at disengagement of the lock, and without any play).

PM me Nick, and I'll share more details on the parts and process.

- Paul

Hah. That's spectacular. I've got a set that fit fine, but they're about 0.2mm too thick. They work OK, but I'm slowly sanding down a set which might do better. Had to make a few tiny tweaks though. I'll shoot you a message.

[paulwa]

Because I got a couple requests, here's my washer swap approach.

I haven't been able to find any washers that fit perfectly, but any 5/32nds inner diameter washer is a good start. All the ones I’ve found need some modification. Most are too thick, being 0.020” thick, and we’re shooting for 0.010”. So, you can sand these down (I’ve tried this, but didn't get the greatest results, it was just so much material to remove I could never get a set that was perfectly flat at the end). Plus, some are also a just a hair too big in the outer diameter and require additional modification.
So I settled on this tack… order a set of 5/32nds washers for a butterfly knife, like these:
http://butterflyknifekits.com/index.php ... tail&p=351
And stack them (each is only 0.005 thick). You put two on the non-locking side without any modification, then you need to grind down the outer diameter of the other 2 from the 9.5mm they start out at, down to around 8.2mm outer diameter. Put those smaller 2 on the lock side and you are good to go.
Keeping the ground outer edge concentric with the center is tough, I put the washer on a dremel tool mandrel made to hold cut-off wheels, fire up the Drexel and grind down the circumference. Then debur the edge and it's finished. I do them one at a time, it seems to keep the washers flatter.
FYI: It might be worth buying a couple sets of washers, because you need all 4, and it's pretty easy to over grind or bend one.

You can do the swap without fully disassembling the knife, just removing the pivot. But for fair warning, I think this modification definitely VOIDS THE MANUFACTURER WARRANTY.
So undertake this at your own risk…

- Paul

[jmh8300]

Surely it's time for Spyderco to upgrade the knife's production to include BP washers. How embarrassing is it that the knife designer has to advocate warranty voiding hacks to get the Ouroboros to where it should have been from the start?

[paulwa]

For the record, I use and love many knives with Teflon washers, it's just that after Nick's experience, I started toying around with the idea of swapping to phosphor bronze on my "experimental" Ouroboros. I still run Teflon in my carry Ouroboros. They mainly give a different feel to opening and closing the knife, the Teflon may be a bit more prone to cracking, but their extra compliance can be a bit more forgiving when tuning the action. I like the bronze for "flickability", if that's your deployment means of choice. It all eventually comes down to personal preference, just thought I'd help with the option for a swap since there was so much discussion online. I personally do not think Teflon washers denote "cheap" construction, but I'm also for making as many mods as needed for someone to be happy with their purchase, hopefully this will help some on that front.

Thanks everyone,
-Paul

[dsvirsky]

Surely it's time for Spyderco to upgrade the knife's production to include BP washers. How embarrassing is it that the knife designer has to advocate warranty voiding hacks to get the Ouroboros to where it should have been from the start?

Seems like a lot of work to fix something that isn't broken. Then again, I'm more concerned with how the knife functions when cutting, than with "flickability" (or with taking my knife apart). Seems to me, folks have lost track of the function and purpose of a knife and it isn't flicking open and closed.

Open question: how many of y'all (besides Nick) have ever experienced failure of a teflon washer in a knife that hadn't been disassembled?

[NickShabazz]

So I settled on this tack… order a set of 5/32nds washers for a butterfly knife, like these:
http://butterflyknifekits.com/index.php ... tail&p=351
And stack them (each is only 0.005 thick). You put two on the non-locking side without any modification, then you need to grind down the outer diameter of the other 2 from the 9.5mm they start out at, down to around 8.2mm outer diameter. Put those smaller 2 on the lock side and you are good to go.
Keeping the ground outer edge concentric with the center is tough, I put the washer on a dremel tool mandrel made to hold cut-off wheels, fire up the Drexel and grind down the circumference. Then debur the edge and it's finished. I do them one at a time, it seems to keep the washers flatter.

Paul: Thanks for sharing this. I too have had trouble finding thin enough properly sized washers, and the thicker washers aren't working ideally. It's amazing how much of a pain sanding washers to thickness can be. The Dremel mandrel idea is gold. Unless I find a more efficient way of sanding these guys down, I'll almost certainly give it a shot.

And for what it's worth, I do rather suspect that my set of teflons was the exception here, and, for sure, Spyderco made it right with smooth warranty service. I think my first unit might have had a mis-sized washer, because the original had a sort of "clicky" feeling when disengaging the lock, which makes me think that the edge of the lockbar was contacting the washer, which could definitely shred it out. The new one shows no sign of it, luckily.

That said, I still appreciate Paul's help here, as I'd still rather have washers which don't have that failure mode at all, particularly on a higher end knife.

[bearfacedkiller]