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Re: Mantra Bearing Race

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:19 am
by Evil D
Brock O Lee wrote:
Evil D wrote:
SuckSqueezeBangBlow wrote:I was waiting for the magic CQI wand to be waved over this model before buying one
That may well happen, but the fix I just did put this knife right along side my smoothest opening knives. If you really want one now I think it's a safe bet.

I also think this whole thing has been blown way out of proportion lol
The suspense is killing me... Are we there yet?

Sorry dude we're at the mercy of my slow You Tube upload speeds :(

Re: Mantra Bearing Race

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:51 am
by Brock O Lee
Evil D wrote:
Brock O Lee wrote:
Evil D wrote:
SuckSqueezeBangBlow wrote:I was waiting for the magic CQI wand to be waved over this model before buying one
That may well happen, but the fix I just did put this knife right along side my smoothest opening knives. If you really want one now I think it's a safe bet.

I also think this whole thing has been blown way out of proportion lol
The suspense is killing me... Are we there yet?

Sorry dude we're at the mercy of my slow You Tube upload speeds :(
Hehe, no prob... The Mantra bearing notchiness (if that is even a word) is one of two things that is holding me back with this model. The other is the stop pin cutout in the blade, but for a light use knife in a tougher steel it is probably a non-issue.

If there is an easy solution to the bearing I might have a reason to go shopping again in the near future. :)

Re: Mantra Bearing Race

Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 9:08 pm
by 4life
If you take a look in david (evil d's) thread, you can see how damaged one of my washers are from flattening them back out (metals can only stretch so far before snapping) and it is still one of my smoothest spyderco knives. I have it at absolutely no blade play at all and if the lock bar is held opened the blade swings freely.
Without the lock bar held opened, it falls shut but with a little wiggle. (To overcome the tension the lock bar places on it)

To start with before flattening out the washers, it was a big struggle to flip it open if you didn't have correct technique. Now anyone who tries it gets it opened. It's a great flipper, can either press down on the tab, or pull back on it. Either way now works perfectly.

Re: Mantra Bearing Race

Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:27 am
by mike1808
I had the same issue with my Domino. Washers got flattened a bit and it doesn't flip so smoothly as it was before. So I thought to replace my washers and bearings. I've measured the bearings and found this set of bearings and washers http://usaknifemaker.com/folding-knife- ... 4-10m.html However, the washers are too thick for Domino. Did anyone tried to replace them?

I want to add that I have Kizer Splinter knife which has ceramic bearings (in the plastic cage, like in Spyderco), but with washers like in the link below and it's very smooth knife, smooth as butter. So I hope, this kind of washer will help my Domino as smooth as it was before.

My two cents... ok maybe five cents.

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:33 am
by bigddy263
I got my mantra and couldnt help myself, took it apart. My washers were luckily not dimpled like the OP's. However they are super thin. So thin that they were dished where the bearing balls run on them. So when i reassembled with a little fresh frog lube, I flipped them over creating a little spring. A couple of weeks later I opened it again mostly just to check it out, but also to clean and see if i could get it even quicker to flip ( it wasnt bad by any means). The washers were again cupped around the bearings. This time I used a little nano lube 10 wt and it might be a little quicker. On both reassemblys I was extremely careful not to over torque the pivot to avoid smashing the washers. I believe the washers are so thin that they are being reshaped by the balls like an english wheel shapes metal to make a fender. The OP's washers look like the dents are a little harsher on one side of the circle than on the other, probably from a heavy side load, not overtorquing IMHO. I wish i had a stack of phosphor bronze washers that were the exact thickness of the bearings, Im pretty sure this pivot would be just as quick and smooth with those and would resist grit better. Either way I really like this knife. It just seems that they tried to go too small with the bearing balls and too thin with the washers on the mantra. Sometimes the old way is better. Also be careful if you are thinking ceramic balls, they will wear on your metal parts much faster than metal balls with very minimal advantage in this application. Ceramic is much harder than metal, and not all of the forces are rolling forces, there is some twisting and sliding done in there also( very small amounts). Done , thanks.

Re: My two cents... ok maybe five cents.

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:46 pm
by Bodog
bigddy263 wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:33 am
.
The original mantra is one of my favorite designs with one of my favorite steels. The bearings killed the knife for me. I wish they'd CQI the original design and re-release it. I really liked it and I'm not really a fan of smaller knives but that one was an exception. I'd buy one in a heartbeat as long as it just used PB washers that fit right. Actually, I'd love to see them use rex 45 instead of rex M4. Rex 45 sounds like an absolute beast of a steel. And stonewash the blade...

Re: My two cents... ok maybe five cents.

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:06 pm
by vilePossum
Bodog wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:46 pm
bigddy263 wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:33 am
.
The original mantra is one of my favorite designs with one of my favorite steels. The bearings killed the knife for me. I wish they'd CQI the original design and re-release it. I really liked it and I'm not really a fan of smaller knives but that one was an exception. I'd buy one in a heartbeat as long as it just used PB washers that fit right. Actually, I'd love to see them use rex 45 instead of rex M4. Rex 45 sounds like an absolute beast of a steel. And stonewash the blade...
This.
Wish I could get a mantra on washers or with a cqi...

Re: Mantra Bearing Race

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:29 pm
by bigddy263
Well, I ordered some washers. Here are the sizes I came up with. Please note that my caliper is cheap so i checked, cheked, and rechecked everything, but YMMV. For the washers( bearing races) I got .005in. For the thickness of the ball bearings, I got .041in. for a total of 46 thou. per side. Outside dia I got .35 (measured the recess in the handle), and pivot dia I got .175in. I ordered PB washers from knifemakers and ordered 6 ea .015 x 3/16id x .317od . I intend to put 3 washers per side to get to 45 thou. Hopefully that will be thick enough to make it work. I figure lube will take up a tiny bit of space also. Im a bit new to this so feel free to tell me what I did wrong. When they show up, I will post results. I received my blurple PM2 today and its super smooth and free with washers, I can only hope that my Mantra will end up that good.

Re: Mantra Bearing Race

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:39 pm
by BrianMcCord
I have not purchased a Spyderco since the Mantra debacle. It was really unfair to the customers, in my opinion...I think a trade in for a CQI model should have been offered. It may have been an expensive fix, but would have been the right thing to do, in my opinion.

In such a competitive field (cutlery), a hiccup like that is all it takes for me to lose brand loyalty.

I find myself wanting to comment everytime this topic comes up...guess I'm pretty butt-hurt over it.

Re: Mantra Bearing Race

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:06 pm
by Daveho
BrianMcCord wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:39 pm
I have not purchased a Spyderco since the Mantra debacle. It was really unfair to the customers, in my opinion...I think a trade in for a CQI model should have been offered. It may have been an expensive fix, but would have been the right thing to do, in my opinion.

In such a competitive field (cutlery), a hiccup like that is all it takes for me to lose brand loyalty.

I find myself wanting to comment everytime this topic comes up...guess I'm pretty butt-hurt over it.
I was and am still really disappointed by it, honestly for me it removes any incentive to buy new from a dealer- no support when I needed it.
I know people disagree but with a premium product you do expect a bit of service..
I haven’t paid new prices since and won’t again, what’s the point

Re: Mantra Bearing Race

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:16 pm
by BrianMcCord
Daveho wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:06 pm
BrianMcCord wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:39 pm
I have not purchased a Spyderco since the Mantra debacle. It was really unfair to the customers, in my opinion...I think a trade in for a CQI model should have been offered. It may have been an expensive fix, but would have been the right thing to do, in my opinion.

In such a competitive field (cutlery), a hiccup like that is all it takes for me to lose brand loyalty.

I find myself wanting to comment everytime this topic comes up...guess I'm pretty butt-hurt over it.
I was and am still really disappointed by it, honestly for me it removes any incentive to buy new from a dealer- no support when I needed it.
I know people disagree but with a premium product you do expect a bit of service..
I haven’t paid new prices since and won’t again, what’s the point
+1

Re: Mantra Bearing Race

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:22 pm
by dj moonbat
So, are any and all pre-Mantra 3 Mantras going to be afflicted with this issue? I had briefly been considering a Mantra 2, which seemed like a pretty sweet deal. But anything that involves me sizing up shims with a micrometer sounds like a bit much.

Re: Mantra Bearing Race

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:47 pm
by Evil D
dj moonbat wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:22 pm
So, are any and all pre-Mantra 3 Mantras going to be afflicted with this issue? I had briefly been considering a Mantra 2, which seemed like a pretty sweet deal. But anything that involves me sizing up shims with a micrometer sounds like a bit much.

It depends on who you ask :rolleyes:

Re: Mantra Bearing Race

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:50 pm
by dj moonbat
Evil D wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:47 pm
dj moonbat wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:22 pm
So, are any and all pre-Mantra 3 Mantras going to be afflicted with this issue? I had briefly been considering a Mantra 2, which seemed like a pretty sweet deal. But anything that involves me sizing up shims with a micrometer sounds like a bit much.

It depends on who you ask :rolleyes:
Well, OK. But, like, I vaguely remember there were some pivot issues with the Advocate, and then I think something was done about it. Was there ever a change in the first two generations of Mantra?

Re: Mantra Bearing Race

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:55 pm
by Evil D
dj moonbat wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:50 pm
Evil D wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:47 pm
dj moonbat wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:22 pm
So, are any and all pre-Mantra 3 Mantras going to be afflicted with this issue? I had briefly been considering a Mantra 2, which seemed like a pretty sweet deal. But anything that involves me sizing up shims with a micrometer sounds like a bit much.

It depends on who you ask :rolleyes:
Well, OK. But, like, I vaguely remember there were some pivot issues with the Advocate, and then I think something was done about it. Was there ever a change in the first two generations of Mantra?
Not that I'm aware of. But, despite reports of perfectly smooth examples from both users and Sal/Spyderco, it seems the negative have out weighed the positive so I guess it's a gamble. I love mine but apparently I won the pivot lottery.

Re: Mantra Bearing Race

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:44 pm
by Sharp Guy
dj moonbat wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:22 pm
So, are any and all pre-Mantra 3 Mantras going to be afflicted with this issue? I had briefly been considering a Mantra 2, which seemed like a pretty sweet deal. But anything that involves me sizing up shims with a micrometer sounds like a bit much.
I've had my Mantra for over two years and the pivot is as smooth as it was when it was new. I'd be willing to bet there are way more Mantras out there without issues than there are with them.

Re: Mantra Bearing Race

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:26 am
by bigddy263
Just to be clear, mine is one of the good ones. But, I still think the washers will give more support than the tiny points from the bearing balls, and the steel washer is continually being formed by the balls. It may take 100yrs, but the steel washers will eventually wear out. I don't think PB washers will wear out in several lifetimes unless abused. Also the PB washers should be more grit resistant. I do have a few knives with ball bearings that I feel are improved by them, mostly ZT's. I just think the Mantra pivot is too small to see any improvement from bearings. I have a Benchmade presidio that has PB washers that probably would have been better with bearings. It has a large pivot.

Re: Mantra Bearing Race

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:06 am
by BrianMcCord
My Mantra came off center...and what is the most obvious fix (to me)...? Tighten the pivot. That somehow has been labeled as abnormal abuse, therefor putting the buyer on the hook for a poor design. If Spyderco has become a "quality lottery" with little backup from customer service, then I can't justify the cost of money, time and patience.

This is a Mantra that will not be repeated.

Re: Mantra Bearing Race

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:32 am
by awa54
bigddy263 wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:29 pm
Well, I ordered some washers. Here are the sizes I came up with. Please note that my caliper is cheap so i checked, cheked, and rechecked everything, but YMMV. For the washers( bearing races) I got .005in. For the thickness of the ball bearings, I got .041in. for a total of 46 thou. per side. Outside dia I got .35 (measured the recess in the handle), and pivot dia I got .175in. I ordered PB washers from knifemakers and ordered 6 ea .015 x 3/16id x .317od . I intend to put 3 washers per side to get to 45 thou. Hopefully that will be thick enough to make it work. I figure lube will take up a tiny bit of space also. Im a bit new to this so feel free to tell me what I did wrong. When they show up, I will post results. I received my blurple PM2 today and its super smooth and free with washers, I can only hope that my Mantra will end up that good.

I've been waiting two years for someone to do this! Please keep us up to date on your project.

Re: Mantra Bearing Race

Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:55 am
by vilePossum
awa54 wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:32 am
bigddy263 wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:29 pm
Well, I ordered some washers. Here are the sizes I came up with. Please note that my caliper is cheap so i checked, cheked, and rechecked everything, but YMMV. For the washers( bearing races) I got .005in. For the thickness of the ball bearings, I got .041in. for a total of 46 thou. per side. Outside dia I got .35 (measured the recess in the handle), and pivot dia I got .175in. I ordered PB washers from knifemakers and ordered 6 ea .015 x 3/16id x .317od . I intend to put 3 washers per side to get to 45 thou. Hopefully that will be thick enough to make it work. I figure lube will take up a tiny bit of space also. Im a bit new to this so feel free to tell me what I did wrong. When they show up, I will post results. I received my blurple PM2 today and its super smooth and free with washers, I can only hope that my Mantra will end up that good.

I've been waiting two years for someone to do this! Please keep us up to date on your project.
Me too...
And if you guys think you are having a tough time with warranty, try as an international customer. Replacement clips and screws, no problem, but something like this... Just sell the knife and move on.

That's the reason why the only spyderco I own anymore is a delica and nothing else.