Mantra Bearing Race

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
User avatar
Evil D
Member
Posts: 18929
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:48 pm
Location: Northern KY

Re: Mantra Bearing Race

Postby Evil D » Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:19 am

Brock O Lee wrote:
Evil D wrote:
SuckSqueezeBangBlow wrote:I was waiting for the magic CQI wand to be waved over this model before buying one
That may well happen, but the fix I just did put this knife right along side my smoothest opening knives. If you really want one now I think it's a safe bet.

I also think this whole thing has been blown way out of proportion lol
The suspense is killing me... Are we there yet?

Sorry dude we're at the mercy of my slow You Tube upload speeds :(
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

User avatar
Brock O Lee
Member
Posts: 2118
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:34 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Mantra Bearing Race

Postby Brock O Lee » Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:51 am

Evil D wrote:
Brock O Lee wrote:
Evil D wrote:
SuckSqueezeBangBlow wrote:I was waiting for the magic CQI wand to be waved over this model before buying one
That may well happen, but the fix I just did put this knife right along side my smoothest opening knives. If you really want one now I think it's a safe bet.

I also think this whole thing has been blown way out of proportion lol
The suspense is killing me... Are we there yet?

Sorry dude we're at the mercy of my slow You Tube upload speeds :(
Hehe, no prob... The Mantra bearing notchiness (if that is even a word) is one of two things that is holding me back with this model. The other is the stop pin cutout in the blade, but for a light use knife in a tougher steel it is probably a non-issue.

If there is an easy solution to the bearing I might have a reason to go shopping again in the near future. :)
Hans
Favourites at the moment: Military Ti/G10 M4, Sage 2, Caly 3 CF, Pits, Chaparral Ti

4life
Member
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2016 2:39 pm

Re: Mantra Bearing Race

Postby 4life » Sun Oct 30, 2016 9:08 pm

If you take a look in david (evil d's) thread, you can see how damaged one of my washers are from flattening them back out (metals can only stretch so far before snapping) and it is still one of my smoothest spyderco knives. I have it at absolutely no blade play at all and if the lock bar is held opened the blade swings freely.
Without the lock bar held opened, it falls shut but with a little wiggle. (To overcome the tension the lock bar places on it)

To start with before flattening out the washers, it was a big struggle to flip it open if you didn't have correct technique. Now anyone who tries it gets it opened. It's a great flipper, can either press down on the tab, or pull back on it. Either way now works perfectly.

mike1808
Member
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:20 am

Re: Mantra Bearing Race

Postby mike1808 » Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:27 am

I had the same issue with my Domino. Washers got flattened a bit and it doesn't flip so smoothly as it was before. So I thought to replace my washers and bearings. I've measured the bearings and found this set of bearings and washers http://usaknifemaker.com/folding-knife- ... 4-10m.html However, the washers are too thick for Domino. Did anyone tried to replace them?

I want to add that I have Kizer Splinter knife which has ceramic bearings (in the plastic cage, like in Spyderco), but with washers like in the link below and it's very smooth knife, smooth as butter. So I hope, this kind of washer will help my Domino as smooth as it was before.

bigddy263
Member
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:06 am

My two cents... ok maybe five cents.

Postby bigddy263 » Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:33 am

I got my mantra and couldnt help myself, took it apart. My washers were luckily not dimpled like the OP's. However they are super thin. So thin that they were dished where the bearing balls run on them. So when i reassembled with a little fresh frog lube, I flipped them over creating a little spring. A couple of weeks later I opened it again mostly just to check it out, but also to clean and see if i could get it even quicker to flip ( it wasnt bad by any means). The washers were again cupped around the bearings. This time I used a little nano lube 10 wt and it might be a little quicker. On both reassemblys I was extremely careful not to over torque the pivot to avoid smashing the washers. I believe the washers are so thin that they are being reshaped by the balls like an english wheel shapes metal to make a fender. The OP's washers look like the dents are a little harsher on one side of the circle than on the other, probably from a heavy side load, not overtorquing IMHO. I wish i had a stack of phosphor bronze washers that were the exact thickness of the bearings, Im pretty sure this pivot would be just as quick and smooth with those and would resist grit better. Either way I really like this knife. It just seems that they tried to go too small with the bearing balls and too thin with the washers on the mantra. Sometimes the old way is better. Also be careful if you are thinking ceramic balls, they will wear on your metal parts much faster than metal balls with very minimal advantage in this application. Ceramic is much harder than metal, and not all of the forces are rolling forces, there is some twisting and sliding done in there also( very small amounts). Done , thanks.

Bodog
Member
Posts: 1698
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:03 am
Location: Tierra del Sol, USA Earth

Re: My two cents... ok maybe five cents.

Postby Bodog » Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:46 pm

bigddy263 wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:33 am
.
The original mantra is one of my favorite designs with one of my favorite steels. The bearings killed the knife for me. I wish they'd CQI the original design and re-release it. I really liked it and I'm not really a fan of smaller knives but that one was an exception. I'd buy one in a heartbeat as long as it just used PB washers that fit right. Actually, I'd love to see them use rex 45 instead of rex M4. Rex 45 sounds like an absolute beast of a steel. And stonewash the blade...
They who dance are thought mad by those who do not hear the music.

vilePossum
Member
Posts: 206
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:03 am

Re: My two cents... ok maybe five cents.

Postby vilePossum » Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:06 pm

Bodog wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:46 pm
bigddy263 wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:33 am
.
The original mantra is one of my favorite designs with one of my favorite steels. The bearings killed the knife for me. I wish they'd CQI the original design and re-release it. I really liked it and I'm not really a fan of smaller knives but that one was an exception. I'd buy one in a heartbeat as long as it just used PB washers that fit right. Actually, I'd love to see them use rex 45 instead of rex M4. Rex 45 sounds like an absolute beast of a steel. And stonewash the blade...
This.
Wish I could get a mantra on washers or with a cqi...

bigddy263
Member
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:06 am

Re: Mantra Bearing Race

Postby bigddy263 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:29 pm

Well, I ordered some washers. Here are the sizes I came up with. Please note that my caliper is cheap so i checked, cheked, and rechecked everything, but YMMV. For the washers( bearing races) I got .005in. For the thickness of the ball bearings, I got .041in. for a total of 46 thou. per side. Outside dia I got .35 (measured the recess in the handle), and pivot dia I got .175in. I ordered PB washers from knifemakers and ordered 6 ea .015 x 3/16id x .317od . I intend to put 3 washers per side to get to 45 thou. Hopefully that will be thick enough to make it work. I figure lube will take up a tiny bit of space also. Im a bit new to this so feel free to tell me what I did wrong. When they show up, I will post results. I received my blurple PM2 today and its super smooth and free with washers, I can only hope that my Mantra will end up that good.

User avatar
BrianMcCord
Member
Posts: 491
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:29 pm
Location: Upstate NY USA

Re: Mantra Bearing Race

Postby BrianMcCord » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:39 pm

I have not purchased a Spyderco since the Mantra debacle. It was really unfair to the customers, in my opinion...I think a trade in for a CQI model should have been offered. It may have been an expensive fix, but would have been the right thing to do, in my opinion.

In such a competitive field (cutlery), a hiccup like that is all it takes for me to lose brand loyalty.

I find myself wanting to comment everytime this topic comes up...guess I'm pretty butt-hurt over it.
-Brian


Son's Collection: H1 Rescue Manbug, Tenacious

Rescue 79mm Orange, Cat BD-1, Effecient, Pingo Orange FRN, T-Mag, Urban K390, Lil' Native, Sliverax, Para 3 S110V, Caly 3 HAP 40, R Nishijin, Mantra, Manix 2 LW S110V, Manix 2 Black, Delica 4 Black, PM2 Digi, PM2 Black, Yojimbo 2, Native 5 LW, Dragonfly 2, Military 204P, Wolfspyder, Techno, HAP 40 Ladybug, H1 Hawkbill Ladybug, Blue Persistence, Bradley 2, UKPK SE Gin-1


Looking for an Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring Freedom Native. :spyder:

Daveho
Member
Posts: 908
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:19 pm

Re: Mantra Bearing Race

Postby Daveho » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:06 pm

BrianMcCord wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:39 pm
I have not purchased a Spyderco since the Mantra debacle. It was really unfair to the customers, in my opinion...I think a trade in for a CQI model should have been offered. It may have been an expensive fix, but would have been the right thing to do, in my opinion.

In such a competitive field (cutlery), a hiccup like that is all it takes for me to lose brand loyalty.

I find myself wanting to comment everytime this topic comes up...guess I'm pretty butt-hurt over it.
I was and am still really disappointed by it, honestly for me it removes any incentive to buy new from a dealer- no support when I needed it.
I know people disagree but with a premium product you do expect a bit of service..
I haven’t paid new prices since and won’t again, what’s the point

User avatar
BrianMcCord
Member
Posts: 491
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:29 pm
Location: Upstate NY USA

Re: Mantra Bearing Race

Postby BrianMcCord » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:16 pm

Daveho wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:06 pm
BrianMcCord wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:39 pm
I have not purchased a Spyderco since the Mantra debacle. It was really unfair to the customers, in my opinion...I think a trade in for a CQI model should have been offered. It may have been an expensive fix, but would have been the right thing to do, in my opinion.

In such a competitive field (cutlery), a hiccup like that is all it takes for me to lose brand loyalty.

I find myself wanting to comment everytime this topic comes up...guess I'm pretty butt-hurt over it.
I was and am still really disappointed by it, honestly for me it removes any incentive to buy new from a dealer- no support when I needed it.
I know people disagree but with a premium product you do expect a bit of service..
I haven’t paid new prices since and won’t again, what’s the point
+1
-Brian


Son's Collection: H1 Rescue Manbug, Tenacious

Rescue 79mm Orange, Cat BD-1, Effecient, Pingo Orange FRN, T-Mag, Urban K390, Lil' Native, Sliverax, Para 3 S110V, Caly 3 HAP 40, R Nishijin, Mantra, Manix 2 LW S110V, Manix 2 Black, Delica 4 Black, PM2 Digi, PM2 Black, Yojimbo 2, Native 5 LW, Dragonfly 2, Military 204P, Wolfspyder, Techno, HAP 40 Ladybug, H1 Hawkbill Ladybug, Blue Persistence, Bradley 2, UKPK SE Gin-1


Looking for an Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring Freedom Native. :spyder:

User avatar
dj moonbat
Member
Posts: 1068
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:58 am
Location: Sunny SoCal

Re: Mantra Bearing Race

Postby dj moonbat » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:22 pm

So, are any and all pre-Mantra 3 Mantras going to be afflicted with this issue? I had briefly been considering a Mantra 2, which seemed like a pretty sweet deal. But anything that involves me sizing up shims with a micrometer sounds like a bit much.

User avatar
Evil D
Member
Posts: 18929
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:48 pm
Location: Northern KY

Re: Mantra Bearing Race

Postby Evil D » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:47 pm

dj moonbat wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:22 pm
So, are any and all pre-Mantra 3 Mantras going to be afflicted with this issue? I had briefly been considering a Mantra 2, which seemed like a pretty sweet deal. But anything that involves me sizing up shims with a micrometer sounds like a bit much.

It depends on who you ask :rolleyes:
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

User avatar
dj moonbat
Member
Posts: 1068
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:58 am
Location: Sunny SoCal

Re: Mantra Bearing Race

Postby dj moonbat » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:50 pm

Evil D wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:47 pm
dj moonbat wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:22 pm
So, are any and all pre-Mantra 3 Mantras going to be afflicted with this issue? I had briefly been considering a Mantra 2, which seemed like a pretty sweet deal. But anything that involves me sizing up shims with a micrometer sounds like a bit much.

It depends on who you ask :rolleyes:
Well, OK. But, like, I vaguely remember there were some pivot issues with the Advocate, and then I think something was done about it. Was there ever a change in the first two generations of Mantra?

User avatar
Evil D
Member
Posts: 18929
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:48 pm
Location: Northern KY

Re: Mantra Bearing Race

Postby Evil D » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:55 pm

dj moonbat wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:50 pm
Evil D wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:47 pm
dj moonbat wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:22 pm
So, are any and all pre-Mantra 3 Mantras going to be afflicted with this issue? I had briefly been considering a Mantra 2, which seemed like a pretty sweet deal. But anything that involves me sizing up shims with a micrometer sounds like a bit much.

It depends on who you ask :rolleyes:
Well, OK. But, like, I vaguely remember there were some pivot issues with the Advocate, and then I think something was done about it. Was there ever a change in the first two generations of Mantra?
Not that I'm aware of. But, despite reports of perfectly smooth examples from both users and Sal/Spyderco, it seems the negative have out weighed the positive so I guess it's a gamble. I love mine but apparently I won the pivot lottery.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

User avatar
Sharp Guy
Member
Posts: 3880
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:19 pm
Location: Over here!

Re: Mantra Bearing Race

Postby Sharp Guy » Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:44 pm

dj moonbat wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:22 pm
So, are any and all pre-Mantra 3 Mantras going to be afflicted with this issue? I had briefly been considering a Mantra 2, which seemed like a pretty sweet deal. But anything that involves me sizing up shims with a micrometer sounds like a bit much.
I've had my Mantra for over two years and the pivot is as smooth as it was when it was new. I'd be willing to bet there are way more Mantras out there without issues than there are with them.
Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most!

bigddy263
Member
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:06 am

Re: Mantra Bearing Race

Postby bigddy263 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:26 am

Just to be clear, mine is one of the good ones. But, I still think the washers will give more support than the tiny points from the bearing balls, and the steel washer is continually being formed by the balls. It may take 100yrs, but the steel washers will eventually wear out. I don't think PB washers will wear out in several lifetimes unless abused. Also the PB washers should be more grit resistant. I do have a few knives with ball bearings that I feel are improved by them, mostly ZT's. I just think the Mantra pivot is too small to see any improvement from bearings. I have a Benchmade presidio that has PB washers that probably would have been better with bearings. It has a large pivot.

User avatar
BrianMcCord
Member
Posts: 491
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:29 pm
Location: Upstate NY USA

Re: Mantra Bearing Race

Postby BrianMcCord » Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:06 am

My Mantra came off center...and what is the most obvious fix (to me)...? Tighten the pivot. That somehow has been labeled as abnormal abuse, therefor putting the buyer on the hook for a poor design. If Spyderco has become a "quality lottery" with little backup from customer service, then I can't justify the cost of money, time and patience.

This is a Mantra that will not be repeated.
-Brian


Son's Collection: H1 Rescue Manbug, Tenacious

Rescue 79mm Orange, Cat BD-1, Effecient, Pingo Orange FRN, T-Mag, Urban K390, Lil' Native, Sliverax, Para 3 S110V, Caly 3 HAP 40, R Nishijin, Mantra, Manix 2 LW S110V, Manix 2 Black, Delica 4 Black, PM2 Digi, PM2 Black, Yojimbo 2, Native 5 LW, Dragonfly 2, Military 204P, Wolfspyder, Techno, HAP 40 Ladybug, H1 Hawkbill Ladybug, Blue Persistence, Bradley 2, UKPK SE Gin-1


Looking for an Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring Freedom Native. :spyder:

User avatar
awa54
Member
Posts: 1998
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:54 am
Location: Vermont, USA
Contact:

Re: Mantra Bearing Race

Postby awa54 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:32 am

bigddy263 wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:29 pm
Well, I ordered some washers. Here are the sizes I came up with. Please note that my caliper is cheap so i checked, cheked, and rechecked everything, but YMMV. For the washers( bearing races) I got .005in. For the thickness of the ball bearings, I got .041in. for a total of 46 thou. per side. Outside dia I got .35 (measured the recess in the handle), and pivot dia I got .175in. I ordered PB washers from knifemakers and ordered 6 ea .015 x 3/16id x .317od . I intend to put 3 washers per side to get to 45 thou. Hopefully that will be thick enough to make it work. I figure lube will take up a tiny bit of space also. Im a bit new to this so feel free to tell me what I did wrong. When they show up, I will post results. I received my blurple PM2 today and its super smooth and free with washers, I can only hope that my Mantra will end up that good.

I've been waiting two years for someone to do this! Please keep us up to date on your project.
-David

still more knives than sharpening stones...

vilePossum
Member
Posts: 206
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:03 am

Re: Mantra Bearing Race

Postby vilePossum » Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:55 am

awa54 wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:32 am
bigddy263 wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:29 pm
Well, I ordered some washers. Here are the sizes I came up with. Please note that my caliper is cheap so i checked, cheked, and rechecked everything, but YMMV. For the washers( bearing races) I got .005in. For the thickness of the ball bearings, I got .041in. for a total of 46 thou. per side. Outside dia I got .35 (measured the recess in the handle), and pivot dia I got .175in. I ordered PB washers from knifemakers and ordered 6 ea .015 x 3/16id x .317od . I intend to put 3 washers per side to get to 45 thou. Hopefully that will be thick enough to make it work. I figure lube will take up a tiny bit of space also. Im a bit new to this so feel free to tell me what I did wrong. When they show up, I will post results. I received my blurple PM2 today and its super smooth and free with washers, I can only hope that my Mantra will end up that good.

I've been waiting two years for someone to do this! Please keep us up to date on your project.
Me too...
And if you guys think you are having a tough time with warranty, try as an international customer. Replacement clips and screws, no problem, but something like this... Just sell the knife and move on.

That's the reason why the only spyderco I own anymore is a delica and nothing else.


Return to “Spyderco General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], DougC-3, Google [Bot], ladybug93 and 65 guests