Spyderco Forums

Seems like a manufacturing flaw to me.

That's unfortunate. Yeah, possibly overtightened initially or at some point, or saw a high lateral load in that position to dent the washers...

Bearing design like this does make me cringe just a little bit. Seeing threads like this make me use my Southard/Domino/Dice just a bit lighter everytime. And I already know I can't use it for cutting gritty materials or excessively dirty environment...
Makes me wonder when we may see a sealed cartridge bearing pivot, either ball or needle...

I recently purchased a Mantra 2 on ebay from a third party. This one is marked on the blade with the Collector Club number 005. The box and knife both appear to be genuine. The operation of the blade rotation mechanism seems to have two areas that feel like typical bearing contamination. The first is at 1/3 open and the other at nearly full open. I have not disassembled the knife and don't intend to pending an email from Spyderco. If I don't hear from them I will attempt to contact them.
I operated the knife maybe five times. Aside from that it has been stored in it's box in my den.
I'm not a mechanical engineer but have considerable experience in my working and hobby life with ball, roller and needle bearings.

The washers in my Southard are cupped like this and they have a groove worn in them by the washers, but there aren't any actual dents like those pics show. I actually tighten the pivot on this knife as tight as I can turn it, so I'm not sure if over tightening is the cause. The good news is new washers should fix the problem.

A caged ball bearing would be a solution.After seeing theese pics I became quite reluctant purchasing a Mantra.I wonder how often does this washer deformation occur and if Spydercrew is aware of the problem and willing to provide new washers on ocassions.

elena86 wrote:A caged ball bearing would be a solution.After seeing theese pics I became quite reluctant purchasing a Mantra.I wonder how often this washer deformation occur and if Spydercrew is aware of the problem and willing to provide new washers on ocassions.

My personal solution is to move the Mantra down on the shopping list :)
Hopefully it is a batch/teething problem that will pass soon.

it seems like the elastic range of titanium handle scales is wider than that of the washers, either a thicker washer or one that has a harder alloy, or heat treat might fix this?

either way the only flipper that grabs my interest is the Positron.

Dear Abbazaba:

I'm very sorry to hear about the issue you're experiencing with your Mantra. After seeing your post, I discussed it with our warranty repair department. The best course of action is for you to return your knife to us so we can take a closer look at it. Please reference the fact that you are the one who posted the issue on the forum and provide all your contact and return shipping information.

Since the Mantras are new products, we do not have a long track record with them yet. As always, we will do our best to be as fair as possible and get a properly functioning knife in your hands as soon as we can.

Thank you for your understanding and for bringing this to our attention.

Stay safe,

Mike

If this has been said before, I apologize. I just don't understand the need for bearings on a knife. It makes things unnecessarily complicated. Big fat phosphor bronze washers can be really smooth. No need to make things complicated just to do it. Go back to exposed stop-pins, and PB washers please.

I just don't get it. I have some Benchmade's as well as some Kershaw's that are some of the smoothest knives I've ever felt and they have washers. Bearing knives get gritty after a while and need cleaned more than PB washer knives. Sebenza's are on washers.

The more Spydies that get put on bearings the less I buy.

Go back to exposed stop-pins, and PB washers please.

David Lowry wrote:If this has been said before, I apologize. I just don't understand the need for bearings on a knife. It makes things unnecessarily complicated. Big fat phosphor bronze washers can be really smooth. No need to make things complicated just to do it. Go back to exposed stop-pins, and PB washers please.

I just don't get it. I have some Benchmade's as well as some Kershaw's that are some of the smoothest knives I've ever felt and they have washers. Bearing knives get gritty after a while and need cleaned more than PB washer knives. Sebenza's are on washers.

The more Spydies that get put on bearings the less I buy.

Go back to exposed stop-pins, and PB washers please.

^
Yup!

If this had washers and an external stop pin I would have bought it by now.

I've noticed my Domino isn't very smooth anymore and has that "speed bump" feeling as it rotates in its arc. I should probably send it to W&R as well.

It seems all Spyderco flippers with bearings have the same or similar washers. In my southard I experienced an issue in difficulty flipping it. THe bearing washers get grooves worn into them. Imagine the tires of a car riding on the road versus riding in ruts; the latter has more friction. I don't know how other bearing configuration are done or if one is better than another. But some knives flip very smooth. I cleaned and fiddled with my southard and for now can live with it. Here is the response I got from Spyderco regarding this.

"Sorry due to constant quality improvement and the circulation of knock offs we do not ship internal parts. We do not stock most repair parts for the knives that are not made here in Golden as damage from disassembling the knife voids the warranty and if a knife has a warranty issue the knives are generally replaced not repaired. The washers in the Southard after assembled are not flat because of the bearing washers. You can send your knife in for repair if you’d like."

I don't get it.Is this washers issue a manufacturing flaw or not ? We deserve at least a feedback from Spyderco

First it's the Positron, then Mantra that I was going to buy and then :eek: .
The Mantra is new, but not the bearings pivot(Southard, Domino, Dice)

I appreciate the engineering and manufacturing effort that goes into these flippers with bearings etc, but I value simplicity and long term reliability more. If I lived in the US it might have been a different story, but if I can I want to avoid shipping a knife halfway around the world and back to solve a warrantee claim.

I had the exact same issue with my brown Southard flipper. I could never get it to flip open completely, without flicking it downward with my wrist. I got to the point I was going to sell it. But I hated to because I love the ergonomics of the knife. So recently I took mine apart and found the washers looked exactly like the ones in your photos. My solution was to flip the washers over. Then I applied some Chris Reeve fluorinated grease around the washers. After re-assembling I flipped it to see if it helped. I could not believe how easy, and with authority, the blade flipped open. I may see if I can find replacement washers and swap them out one day.

This makes me hesitant to pick up a Mantra... Hopefully Spyderco addresses this issue with their flippers. I am confident they will.

Larry_Mott wrote:

elena86 wrote:A caged ball bearing would be a solution.After seeing theese pics I became quite reluctant purchasing a Mantra.I wonder how often this washer deformation occur and if Spydercrew is aware of the problem and willing to provide new washers on ocassions.

My personal solution is to move the Mantra down on the shopping list :)
Hopefully it is a batch/teething problem that will pass soon.

+1

Detdaddy wrote:I had the exact same issue with my brown Southard flipper. I could never get it to flip open completely, without flicking it downward with my wrist. I got to the point I was going to sell it. But I hated to because I love the ergonomics of the knife. So recently I took mine apart and found the washers looked exactly like the ones in your photos. My solution was to flip the washers over. Then I applied some Chris Reeve fluorinated grease around the washers. After re-assembling I flipped it to see if it helped. I could not believe how easy, and with authority, the blade flipped open. I may see if I can find replacement washers and swap them out one day.

This makes me hesitant to pick up a Mantra... Hopefully Spyderco addresses this issue with their flippers. I am confident they will.

That's exactly what I ended up doing... flipped the washers and added fluoro grease.

If someone had already taken the Mantra apart and confirmed the problem, I may have sent it to Spyderco. However, I do have an issue sending my brand new knife in for repair at an extra cost to myself. This really warranted a recall IMHO. Either way, I'd really just like some new washers, which I will have to source myself because they wont ship parts.

Will Spyderco repair or replace the washers in my Domino? I've never had to use their warranty before.

Does the southard model have this issue too? I was interested in getting one but now I'm not sure