Paramiltary 2 sticking lock

[ShelterMe]

Hi Folks,

THANKS for all the help! Yes, after watching a great comparison video on YouTube by edgedweapon88, the knife is in fact an original Paramilitary and not a Paramilitary 2 or Para 3. This may even have been part of the first initial run of the Para 1. Bear with me it has been a long time since I've even taken the knife out of the knife roll. I'm sorry for the confusion, but this is why I asked my question here because you folks know what you're talking about.

Ok so at least I know now that I'm not the only one who had this issue with their Para 1. I basically just wanted to know if it was in fact a bona-fide issue that people have experienced other than with just my knife. I don't have a "lock release screw," I've tweaked the pivots, disassembled and lubed, done everything I could, and like I said, it's just metal-on-metal, no groove, no ball detent or anything else to alleviate the friction.

I was just wondering if the subsequent Para 2's had any sort of revision for this problem and I wanted to ask if they worked better than the Para 1's, because in no way shape or form does the "spydie-flick" work with this knife lol. In all honesty, I don't have any other Spydercos because I was unimpressed with this one and just never bought another one. Either way from now on I will most likely shy away from the Spyderco compression lock because of the way it hinders the blade opening/closing-- unless you folks can tell me either that they have done something to improve the mechanism, or that this is the way it was designed to work and the friction created is part of the design element and has to be put up with.

Again, thank you all for any info you can give on this, remember again this is my only Spyderco, and my only experience with a Spyderco compression lock, so I have no frame of reference for understanding or comparison. I've been watching videos on the Sage *1,* and I think I'd like to take another look at Spyderco to see what all the hype is about, because this knife really kind of drove me to Benchmade years and years ago and I honestly just never looked back.

Very kind regards,

-Shel

[Evil D]

I got curious and dug mine out just to compare to some newer compression lock knives I have. It's a pretty interesting trip back in time..

1. Man, I really loved this knife. It was "the one" for me for several years. Ultimately I believe I moved on to the Para 2 but I remember being very resistant to the P2 when it first came out.

2. It definitely doesn't have a detent ball. That never really occurred to me until now. It used a notch in the side of the tang that the lock bar seated into to hold the blade closed. It also feels to me like the lock bar itself has much more tension on it than the newer locks do. Those two things combined will definitely mean a harder to open blade. There's just more metal to metal friction happening. This is not an "issue" or defect, this is just how the knife was designed.

3. I still think it's the best iteration of a "mini Military". The ergonomics actually feel like I'm holding a Military, while the P2/P3 are completely different models altogether.

I was just wondering if the subsequent Para 2's had any sort of revision for this problem and I wanted to ask if they worked better than the Para 1's, because in no way shape or form does the "spydie-flick" work with this knife lol. In all honesty, I don't have any other Spydercos because I was unimpressed with this one and just never bought another one. Either way from now on I will most likely shy away from the Spyderco compression lock because of the way it hinders the blade opening/closing-- unless you folks can tell me either that they have done something to improve the mechanism, or that this is the way it was designed to work and the friction created is part of the design element and has to be put up with.

The action is absolutely different between the Para 1 and 2, they may as well be different locks. The addition of a detent ball drastically reduces the friction felt during opening. The opening and lock are a couple of the main reasons the Para 2 is such a popular knife. You're sort of seeing Spyderco and this lock from a very very far off and narrow perspective...you need to handle some newer models for sure.

[SG89]

Please don't judge spyderco over a knife that was only in production for 6 years. The Paramilitary 2 is an improvement over the original on all levels

[Nate]

Yeah, the original Para Military and the PM2 are completely different models.

I also was just reminded that the first Para Military was initially released way back in 2004. It's 2018 now man, buy a new knife!! :eek:

Spyderco also does a heck of a lot more than just compression locks, btw. :)

[JonLeBlanc]

My Knifeworks M4 PM2 CF came with a little lock stick right out of the box, as does my 52100 PM2 after disassembly for cleaning, but it doesn’t affect the performance or function so I don’t let it bother me. And I have rotated the stop pin and put a little graphite where it counts on both pieces but that didn’t change anything. Like I said it doesn’t affect anything so I’m good; if anything it provides a little “haptic feedback” when I’m disengaging the lock!

[Evil D]

My Knifeworks M4 PM2 CF came with a little lock stick right out of the box, as does my 52100 PM2 after disassembly for cleaning, but it doesn’t affect the performance or function so I don’t let it bother me. And I have rotated the stop pin and put a little graphite where it counts on both pieces but that didn’t change anything. Like I said it doesn’t affect anything so I’m good; if anything it provides a little “haptic feedback” when I’m disengaging the lock!

I actually like a small amount of lock stick, as crazy as that sounds. To me it suggests that the lock is more stable especially if it's a liner lock. My Rock Lobster has an audible click when unlocking it and it takes deliberate force to press the lock bar. That tells me the lock is definitely seated. I don't wanna have to use two thumbs to press a lock but I see sticking as something of a feature instead of a flaw.

[bearfacedkiller]

My Para1 may be the smoothest Spydie I own. Certainly rivals my Sage3 and Bradley2 for that title.

Agreed, it is truly a mini Military. Am I crazy in wishing for another sprint run of this knife?



Here it is next to a Para2 of the same color. Makes for a good comparison. I don't have a pic to show it but it pretty much splits the difference in size between the Para2 and Para3.

[JonLeBlanc]

My Knifeworks M4 PM2 CF came with a little lock stick right out of the box, as does my 52100 PM2 after disassembly for cleaning, but it doesn’t affect the performance or function so I don’t let it bother me. And I have rotated the stop pin and put a little graphite where it counts on both pieces but that didn’t change anything. Like I said it doesn’t affect anything so I’m good; if anything it provides a little “haptic feedback” when I’m disengaging the lock!

I actually like a small amount of lock stick, as crazy as that sounds. To me it suggests that the lock is more stable especially if it's a liner lock. My Rock Lobster has an audible click when unlocking it and it takes deliberate force to press the lock bar. That tells me the lock is definitely seated. I don't wanna have to use two thumbs to press a lock but I see sticking as something of a feature instead of a flaw.

Yeah I hear you, it doesn’t bother me nearly as much as it does some others, which is fine, if one prefers no stickiness that’s understandable too. I’m just not gonna go to great lengths to eliminate it. Now, one thing that does sort of make me pause is that the KW M4 PM2 does have a number of noticeable imperfections in the blade, again nothing to impact the knife’s function, but visible nonetheless. As I understand it, M4 can have some slight warping at I think the heat treat phase (?) and maybe that affects the finish, I don’t know, but there are several imperfections in the finish. If I could post pics I would but I’ve given up trying to figure out pic hosting, but at any rate, there are irregular machining marks and tiny “stipples” along the spine and around the thumb hole that give a sort of cloudy appearance. Oh well, I ain’t gonna fret :cool:

[bearfacedkiller]

I love the feeling of a rock solid lock with zero stick like my Bradley Folder but I have zero issues with my K2 which has an audible click as it unlocks. It gives me the same reassurement that we are talking about and gives me confidence to use it hard.

We all like knives for different reasons and I am not knocking those who value them for other reasons but I am firmly in the knives are tools and not toys group. If fidgeting is your jam then I get why lock stick would be undesirable but as a tool it is not an issue.

[awa54]

Anybody have an answer to this or should I just go ahead and throw it away? Is there supposed to be some sort of ball detent on the compression lock (have they improved on the lock since version one) or is it supposed to be metal liner rubbing on metal blade? I have no idea how you guys do this whole "spydie flick" with your middle fingers... I can't even get this thing to flick open more than a third of the way using my thumb! Somebody throw me a bone here. I just disassembled and oiled it again and nothing but friction from the lock tab on the blade. Seems like a gen1 design flaw? This knife might as well not even have bushings because the lock is just creating too much friction for any other parts to matter. If this was meant to swing open using only the compression lock, why even put a thumb hole in the blade? Someone with a gen1 PM2 please tell me if it's supposed to be like this or not. Thanks.

The PM2 *does* have a detent ball which can have exactly the same issues as a liner lock detent ball.

Ensuring that the ball is still in place, hasn't worn flat and is clean (including the recess it sits in on the blade tang) ought to give you the fix to this issue... Polishing or replacing a worn ball is sometimes required to get smooth action, as is polishing the tang where the ball tracks. All current PM2s also have a small ramp for the detent ball where it has to transition up onto the tang, if there isn't one on your knife you might want to look at a knife that has this feature and add one to your problem knife. I've also had to chamfer and polish the edges of the detent hole with this type of action to keep the ball from being damaged or worn excessively.

I have several PM2s and the worst action was on the BHQ M4, when it was new it didn't flick, wouldn't fall shut and had moderate lock stick... after loosening all the screws and re-tightening with the blade centered, it was better and now that it's fully broken in it has typical PM2 action, so adjustment and patience may well pay off.

[Evil D]

The PM2 *does* have a detent ball which can have exactly the same issues as a liner lock detent ball.

....

I think we've established that he has a Para 1, which did not have a detent ball.

[PMBohol]

I think posting a picture here will be of great help.

[bearfacedkiller]

Para1 detent.

[awa54]

The PM2 *does* have a detent ball which can have exactly the same issues as a liner lock detent ball.

....

I think we've established that he has a Para 1, which did not have a detent ball.

Yep, my bad for not reading the last page before posting...

Gotta admit it was good advice if the OP actually had a PM2 though


Is the Vesuvius lock similar to the PM1, with no detent ball? if so that would help explain the lackluster blade action on mine, though it wouldn't be the cause of the lock stick

[awa54]

... the lock release screw ...

I don’t think my PM2 has one. :confused:

Then you do NOT have a Spyderco Paramilitary 2, so no worries. May be you have a Paramilitary which I have feint knowledge of.

OK, I'll bite... I own a bunch of PM2s and have no clue what this adjustable "lock release screw" you're talking about is.

Please enlighten me!!

[Evil D]

Is the Vesuvius lock similar to the PM1, with no detent ball? if so that would help explain the lackluster blade action on mine, though it wouldn't be the cause of the lock stick

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the Vesuvius the first knife to feature the compression lock or was it the Salsa? At any rate I would expect it not to have a detent ball either. It's all the more reason that a new version of the Vesuvius needs to happen, with updated lock and pivot designs but retaining the same classic shape.

[bearfacedkiller]

... the lock release screw ...

I don’t think my PM2 has one. :confused:

Then you do NOT have a Spyderco Paramilitary 2, so no worries. May be you have a Paramilitary which I have feint knowledge of.

OK, I'll bite... I own a bunch of PM2s and have no clue what this adjustable "lock release screw" you're talking about is.

Please enlighten me!!

Having owned and disassembled the Paramilitary, Paramilitary2 and Paramilitary3 as well as the Military I cannot possibly see him referring to anything other than the stop pin.

It does sometimes help to loosen the stop pin and rotate it a little and tighten it up. Also sometimes helps to not torque the stop pin all the way down. Strange and incorrect terminology but somewhere in that misinformation may be some useful advice. Maybe...

I thinks he has feint knowledge of the parts of a Para2 or at least of their names. Maybe he should send it to somebody who could appreciate it.

[Frozenspyder]

Thanks. I was wondering about that lock release screw as well but was too embarrassed to ask.

[Daveho]

... the lock release screw ...

I don’t think my PM2 has one. :confused:

I’m with you- no idea what this could allude too.

[Bloke]

... the lock release screw ...

I don’t think my PM2 has one. :confused:

I’m with you- no idea what this could allude too.

Killer nailed it and in all honesty I too knew what he meant but can't see how it would release the lock.

Unless I'm missing something even with the stop pin removed altogether the knife would still lock to some extent when opened.