Maxamet - the ultimate Mule steel

[Mike157]

Interesting and entertaining videos Cliff. Keep it up. Thank you. That is some thick stock, I'm looking forward to the seeing the process you use to finish those blades. I'm guessing Spyderco would use 1/8" or similar stock for the Mule Team and have the advantage of production equipment such a laser or water jet to cut out the blade profiles - otherwise, it seems there would be no reasonable way to make a production run. It will be interesting to see how the grinding goes. Yes, patiently awaiting the Mule Team run. Mike

[dbcad]

Delightful and informative thread :D Video of the die grinder cutting is particularly informative :eek: Looks like very tough stuff to work. grinding will take a long, long time.

Thanks Cliff, Nice experiment :D I guess laser or plasma would be more effective parting this stuff??

[Cliff Stamp]

I'm guessing Spyderco would use 1/8" or similar stock for the Mule Team and have the advantage of production equipment such a laser or water jet to cut out the blade profiles - otherwise, it seems there would be no reasonable way to make a production run.

Yes, 1/8" or thinner, and WJ to cut them out.

This also isn't a steel suitable for impacts or prying so it should be ground very thin as you don't want to make the first thing someone has to do a regrind of the blade to make it easy to jig sharpen on a set angle.


To be very clear, the maker (Jeremy McCullen) is aware of the steel, these are just experiments and he is intentionally trying different things to explore the limits of this blade material.

[Laethageal]

Any news about the progress in making the mule? I'm really eager to see what it can do!

[Philo Beddoe]

Any news about the progress in making the mule? I'm really eager to see what it can do!

I read somewhere that Spyderco has the material for the next 2 or 3 MT's so it will probably be awhile before we see a Maxamet Mule..figure on at least a year or more..fine by me because even the possibility of a Maxamet Mule makes it worth the wait..

How does Maxamet do in the rust resistance category?

Carbon 2.15%
Sulfur 0.070%
Chromium 4.75%
Vanadium 6.00%
Manganese 0.30%
Silicon 0.25%
Cobalt 10.00%
Tungsten 13.00%
Iron Balance

[Laethageal]

I was talking about the Cliff T0.1M mule project btw, not spyderco mule

[Cliff Stamp]

A number of makers have committed to make blades and some are in progress, not all of them will be the exact mule, but most will be. There can be some changes based on steel size and availability as some of the less common steels are not practical to make that exact design.

[sal]

Looking forward to hear what you come up with. We have 3 Mule Teams ahead of it and possibly a 4th depending on delivery.

sal

[Cliff Stamp]

These are ready to be hardened. I just want to confirm with Carpenter their recommendation for a cycle which achieves :

-maximum strength/wear resistance
-high toughness/chip resistance

as you can't do both at the same time so it would be interesting to compare them.

[xceptnl]

These are ready to be hardened. I just want to confirm with Carpenter their recommendation for a cycle which achieves :

-maximum strength/wear resistance
-high toughness/chip resistance

as you can't do both at the same time so it would be interesting to compare them.

Cliff, are you planning a blind (or double blind) comparison or do you plan to HT them all the same?

[Cliff Stamp]

It depends on the result I get from Carpenter, if there is something worth looking at I will alter the HT.

The results will be blinded but I would not call it strictly a double blind as I will be controlling how many blades get what HT and of course the person doing the HT also knows, but the influence of bias there is extremely low as they are not a maker/manufacturer and have no reason for bias.

[toomzz]

Sounds good Cliff, cool, make the mule!

[Laethageal]

Think we are gonna see a picture of it soon? I'm still pretty interested in the project for the sake of testing and I'm ready to give a sweat testing it if you need!

[Cliff Stamp]

I have some data from Carpenter, just need to talk to Peter's to see what they can do.

There are video's in this thread where you can see the knives in progress, for example :

[video=youtube;GTyYZY3no9E]https://youtu.be/GTyYZY3no9E[/video]

[Strong-Dog]

I have some data from Carpenter, just need to talk to Peter's to see what they can do.

There are video's in this thread where you can see the knives in progress, for example :

[video=youtube;GTyYZY3no9E]https://youtu.be/GTyYZY3no9E[/video]

Are you going to sell those?

[Cliff Stamp]

Are you going to sell those?

No, I don't sell knives as a general rule.

These are for the T0.1M Mule/Library which means you can borrow them just like a library book. There are just two conditions :

1) don't be an idjit

2) be willing to submit to peer review

There are no time limits/usage restrictions (within reason), so if you wanted to use one for an entire hunting season that would be perfectly fine, and you can do things with them that you would not do to other blades due to fear of damage/excessive wear. This is where rule (1) comes into play. For example if you wanted to use it for shingling then that would be perfectly sensible and educational. However exposing it to triflic acid would not be due to the amount of information produced to the amount of material consumed. Unless you had access to a lab and were going to actually produce detailed metallurgical information, in which case then by all means do so (carefully).

The second rule just means that you have to be willing to discuss your results in an open and critical format, and within reason (again see (1)) accomodate sensible requests.

[Strong-Dog]

No, I don't sell knives as a general rule.

These are for the T0.1M Mule/Library which means you can borrow them just like a library book. There are just two conditions :

1) don't be an idjit

2) be willing to submit to peer review

There are no time limits/usage restrictions (within reason), so if you wanted to use one for an entire hunting season that would be perfectly fine, and you can do things with them that you would not do to other blades due to fear of damage/excessive wear. This is where rule (1) comes into play. For example if you wanted to use it for shingling then that would be perfectly sensible and educational. However exposing it to triflic acid would not be due to the amount of information produced to the amount of material consumed. Unless you had access to a lab and were going to actually produce detailed metallurgical information, in which case then by all means do so (carefully).

The second rule just means that you have to be willing to discuss your results in an open and critical format, and within reason (again see (1)) accomodate sensible requests.

Wow, that's a nice thing to do. I don't have a means to actually test these, so I guess I'll wait for Spyderco to release a mule in this. Excited to see results though!

[Cliff Stamp]

I don't have a means to actually test these...

Sure you do, science isn't dependent on equipment, only on method. Here are some simple experiments you could do :

-request two mules, for example VG-10 and ZDP-189

(they come unmarked, you don't know which is which)

You carry and use the two for a week and see if there is a consistent difference in :

-ease of sharpening
-ultimate sharpness
-edge retention
-durability
-corrosion resistance

etc. .

If you are willing, then you repeat that for another three weeks, to see if the results are consistent. If they are then you have a decent argument (not conclusive, but decent) that there is a difference in whatever area you find. You posts you results in whatever detail you want.

Now imagine if 100 people did that and I tabulate the results and then I do the statistics to see if certain patterns hold and in what cases (certain types of work favor one steel other the other). Don't you think that kind of information would be of value, I certainly do.

Yes there will be direct materials data (they will be CATRA tested, etc.) and some people might do things in very controlled ways and that will be added to. But don't you think something as simple as what I just described would also be useful?

[Ankerson]

Long term EDC use and or daily use would be interesting to see how well it did in a variety of situations.

For those who can carry fixed blades that is.

[Cliff Stamp]

For those interested, these are starting to be completed :

[video=youtube;DvsQittsIC0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvsQittsIC0[/video]

There are two HT protocols, one is to maximize hardness/wear and one is to maximize toughness.