Thick vs Thin handles

[sal]

For discussion purposes.



I have always designed knives to be carried (or worn) on a regular daily basis. That is the main reason for choosing, even striving to make them thin. Thin is easier to wear. Easier to wear means more often carried. More often carried means you have it when you need it.



Too thin becomes uncomfortable to use and too thin can cost strength (not good in a using knife IMO). Too thick becomes uncomfortable to carry.



Ergonomics is one of the prime directives in my designs, again, for using.



What thickness in inches, thousandths or mm to you think is ideal for a daily using knife? And why?



Of all of the knives that you own, what is the thickness of your favorite daily carry's?



sal

[Hojo]

I think it somewhat depends on the handle material being used, but to me, anything that is at or about 10mm in thickness is very comfortable.

I usually carry one or two of the followings on daily basis - Calypso Jr. LW, Endura LW, Starmate, Military, Chinook, and Gunting - and except for Gunting and Chinook, all above have about 10mm handle.

I would also take little additional weight if it meant more comfortable handle over lighter but not as comfortable handle.

I personally do not like the thickness of stainless steel Endura(can't comment on other stainless steel model, since I don't own them). It is bit too thin for my hand and the handle tend to bite into my hand when it's being held tightly.

Haj

Edited for spelling.

Edited by - Hojo on 1/1/2001 9:42:28 AM

[Carlos]

I agree that 10mm is about right. Anything less than 10mm gets uncomfortable to use, and when you go over 12mm you start to get too thick for pocket carry. What is important with a 1cm thick handle is an ergonomic shape.

My C48 Wegner is about 12mm thick, and it is what I carry most often. But I prefer the feel of my 10mm thick C15 Terzuola. I've had a thinner knife (say around 7 or 8mm), but it was very uncomfortable to use. I've had knives over 12mm thick, and I didn't like to carry them and left them at home.

I vote for 10mm as ideal.

[WTFOver]

Sal, I have found that for daily carry a slim handle has worked best for me. I've carried a C07S In BLAK-Ti for many years and found that it is easy to carry and use. I too believe that a knife that is comfortable to carry will always be there to be used. Now I'll admit that I don't have the largest hands so maybe that’s why a slim profile is important to me for a daily carry folder.

I will also admit that while my C07S is my most frequent carry I do own a few non-Spyderco knives. Recently I have been carrying a MicroTech LCC and have enjoyed the added heft but found it not as easy or comfortable to carry. Therefore it doesn’t go out with me as often as the C07S.

I miss the Blak-Ti units from your product line. The number 1 complaint I’ve heard about the C07S is that the Stainless Steel version is slippery and too **** visible when carried. The Blak-Ti coating seemed to resolve these problems for me.

I understand that Black Ti Boride coating now used by some vendors (MicroTech for example) is even stronger than the old Blak-Ti coating and I would love to try it on a C07S to see how it works. Maybe I will be able to find a company to coat a few for me to play with. It is getting harder and harder to find Blak-Ti versions to keep in my “carry rotation”. (For some reason these succumb to "Sticky Finger Syndrome" more than any of my other knives. So I find I need to keep 2 or 3 on hand to make sure I always have a sharp one for carry and to avoid wearing out one through overuse.)

I feel that while comfort is important to ensure the knife goes out the door with you there are other considerations. It should fit your hand as if it were an extension of the hand and not as some foreign object. It should be easy to control and have enough of a blade to perform usefully in the field. It should be discreet to carry.

The C07S in Blak-Ti meets all of these requirements for me. The handle shape is perfect for me. Not only in thickness but also in overall shape. The Blak-Ti coating makes the knife much more discreet to carry. The blade is as large as could possibly fit in the handle and performs great in the field. The Steel handle gives the knife the appropriate heft to help control the knife that seems to be lacking in the G10 models.

Sorry to head a little off topic but I believe that form and function is a subject that covers a much larger range than simply the thickness or the handle. Sure that is a part of the formula but there are so many other items to include (Blade Geometry, Handle Geometry, Finnish, Materials, Weight, etc.) that it would be impossible to limit this discussion to only one aspect.

Thank You


-In Beer there is Strength...
-In Wine there is Wisdom...
-In Water there is BACTERIA...
Old German Proverb

[crazy_horse]

I find that the thickness matters not so much for carry purposes, as it does for the ergonomics of actually using the knife.

I carry one of a number of spydercos every day, as well as microtech and buck. I'd say the buck knife is the thickest I own, but with the blade extended, it feels great in your hand. I love my spyderco Wegner as well, which is thicker than my spyderco millitary, but I have no problem with carrying it.

If I could have my perfect spyderco, I'd take the millitary, lengthen the cutting edge of the blade while still keeping the same overall blade length (ie, I'd use some of the wasted space at the bottom) and shorten the handle so that the blade JUST fits it. maybe even straighten the handle a bit more like the starmate. as it is, I find myself carrying my Microtech Socom more often than my favorite spyderco (the millitary) because it is shorter in overall length, but still maintains a longer cutting edge.

[tique]

I would say that anything between 10 and 12mm is very nice. I have several knives in that range that I love to carry. Some of the thicker knives have a profile that is a bit more slim though. Take an AFCK for example, I love it, it is about 12mm, but it isn't as wide as a Military which I also love but is about 10mm. I think the width and thickness are related, you need to work with one to change the other and maintain a good feeling knife. I don't think the heft of the knife is that big of a deal though, I don't notice it as much as others do I guess.

My perfect Spydie would be a full size Wegner, in VG-10, with a tip down clip. Can it happen Sal?

If you want to get a knife black-ti coated, give me an email, I believe I have Walter Birdsongs # somewhere in an email account and I'll be happy to give it to you, he did a blade for one of my friends and was excellent to work with.

By the way, just checked and I have balisongs that are up to 15-16mm thick and are still comfortable to use.

Edited by - tique on 1/1/2001 12:59:38 PM

[Marc]

I haven't looked at this scientificly, but from experience some of my Spyderco's are much nicer to carry than others. The Military, Native, and the Centofante's are so comfortable that it is easy to forget that they are there. The Wegner(large)is also very comfortable, but a little more noticeable. The Chinook is not nearly as comfortable as a daily carry. The Snap-it is also awkard, and the clip keeps getting pushed to the outside of the hook. I've quit using it, because I know it is just going to fall off my gear sometime when I need it. The Starmate is also not as comfortable as the Military, and I'm not shure why. I have ordered a Gunting and a Chinese folder, but don't have them yet. I will be glad to post a comment after I have carried them a little while if you would like more feedback. I know this isn't very specific, but I hope it helps.

Marc

[dac]

Weight is more important to me than thickness when it comes to knife carry. I like thin knives but my favorites are thick enough to fill my hand. The Native is a great example of this. I like its feel better than either the Delica or Calypso. The profile of the Native works well G-10 and Zytel. The stainless one is a bit thin for me.

[Flinx]

As far as thickness goes, my Delica fits me the best. It fits just fine even when I just pulled the jeans right out of the dryer!

Flinx

[sam the man..]

Thick or thin -- the pros and cons are basis for a good argument. I prefer my pocket knives to have solid handle which not too thick like the Endura and Military... And of course... Spyderco knives are my first choice for ergonomics!! <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle> You folks at Golden designed some of the best handling folders money can buy!

have spydies
will travel...

[mundele]

I prefer a thin knife. 8mm - 10mm. (not counting the clip). I regularly carry a Calypso Jr. ltwt. If I measured correctly, it is 10mm thick. I would not want a knife any thicker though...

--Matt

[sgtmike88]

I prefer 10 - 12 mm thickness. My hands are on the large size and anything thinner is uncomfortable to use. Anything thicker feels like a club when I'm wearing gloves. All of my daily carry favorites seem to be in that 10 - 12 mm range.

[anders turebrand]

I think thickness should correspond to the width of the handle, if it´s too flat I don´t like it. A good thickness/width ratio would be about 1/2-1/3 and the handle should be nicely rounded.
Now how about a no-frills fixed blade hunter along scandinavian lines (4-5" blade with a slight drop-point, a barrel-shaped handle with an oval cross-section).

[toothed]

Hi Sal, I like it thin in the pocket or IWB and thick in the hand. A true chameleon?

All joking aside, I like the thinness of the stainless steel handled Police. It is comfortable slipping in and out of my pocket and the most comfortable of all my knives when carried IWB. In my opinion, I consider the Police the signature Spyderco knife.

Perhaps the model is due for an update. My suggestion is VG-10 blade with black coated scales like that on the "R" and black clip (of course). Hmm, Genie, for my third wish I wish.........

[Brian Lavin]

Well, can't find a good ruler at this point in time, but I'd say the Military is about as thick as I like a knife to be if it's to be clipped into a pants pocket.

Knifeknut
Dedicated ELU

[john row]

Sal,
The knife that gives me fits to handle is my Al Mar Passport. It's a great carry (Too bad no clip though) I love the blade shape and it's nice to look at. It's too thin and too wide top to bottom for MY hand.
I also don't like slippery knives such as with stainless steel and even CF (on my MT LCC, for example).
I like both width & depth dimenisions for HANDLING on the large Wegner, the Military and the Starmate. The Large Goddard, and even the Chinook (because of handle shape) feel comfortable.

John

DANG!!! Oh well, still have nine more fingers!! LOL

[Paul Work]

The FRN Native is as close to perect as any knife out there. Overall thickness is just right.

Paul

[ceg]

For daily carry/use I prefer thin handles like the SS dragonfly or SS rookie. The New LUM is nice and thin as well. Max thickness is the FRN Native, Military and Wegner.

My daily use is limited to a few open/cut/close operations per day. Much more time spent in the carry mode, so thinness is an important quality to me.

However for extended use the Native and Wegner are dreams to use. But this may not be totally due to thickness but maybe width (as previously stated) or overall ergonomics.
In these extended use modes, I've carried the specific knife for that purpose (on the farm or hunting). Chances are I additionally carry the SS Dragonfly or Rookie.

[Airlsee]

The FRN Native is as close to perect as any knife out there. Overall thickness is just right.

Paul

Agreed.

Time Capsule Thread:

Thought it would be fun to bring back a discussion that deserves a few updated opinions. Seems like they pretty much reached a consensus of 8-10mm...

[Sharp Guy]

I'm never any help in threads like this. I like how thin knives carry in my pocket but I like how thicker handles fill your hand in use.