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Thread: Israeli Army Knives: VERY COOL!

  1. #1
    Spyderco Forum Registered User SpyderEdgeForever's Avatar
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    Israeli Army Knives: VERY COOL!

    http://www.isaktech.com/en-us/index.asp



    They use 440 Stainless Steel blades and look very good and seem to be high quality!

  2. #2
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Officer Gigglez's Avatar
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    Hmmm
    Spyderco Knives (in order of obtainment):
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  3. #3
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Monocrom's Avatar
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    Call me skeptical.... I don't think those are actually the real deal.
    "The World is insane, with small pockets of sanity here & there. Not the other way around."

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    Spyderco Forum Registered User Jeremy_A_Neel's Avatar
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    They seem to use a lot of terminology and buzz words that they don't understand.
    "If you have a difficult task, give it to a lazy person - they will find an easier way to do it." -Hlade's Law

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    Spyderco Forum Registered User
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    Hmmmm

  6. #6
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Liquid Cobra's Avatar
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    This is a joke right?
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  7. #7
    Spyderco Forum Registered User phillipsted's Avatar
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    Anytime I see someone demonstrating a knife in a sales/marketing video by punching through car doors or gutting tires, I'm automatically dubious. But the "spine whack" test, batoning, puncturing ammo cans, and piercing body armor puts it right into the realm of parody.

    TedP

  8. #8
    Spyderco Forum Registered User xceptnl's Avatar
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    I don't see the "Two finger grooves: on handle and on blade"
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  9. #9
    Spyderco Forum Registered User SpyderEdgeForever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillipsted View Post
    Anytime I see someone demonstrating a knife in a sales/marketing video by punching through car doors or gutting tires, I'm automatically dubious. But the "spine whack" test, batoning, puncturing ammo cans, and piercing body armor puts it right into the realm of parody.

    TedP

    Explain why you become dubious at this. Isn't that proof that the knife is tough? Its the principle of "A Fortiori", the argument from the stronger position. Example: If I can walk 100 miles, I can walk 10 miles, because 100 miles is harder and takes more effort and endurance ability. If a society can produce steel, then by the a fortiori argument, that same society can make bronze, because steel is more complicated to make and requires greater heat whereas bronze is softer and requires less heat and less technology to produce.

    If a knife can stand up to being battered and can punch through car doors and if that knife can cut through heavy things then that same knife can be used to cut through softer things and handle weaker tasks put to it.

    If a knife can cut through sheet metal, that same knife can cut through meat or cardboard, because sheet metal is tougher than those. A fortiori.

    Any society that can produce lasers can produce steel swords, because lasers are more complex and require a greater technology level, so, by default that society has already passed the point of being able to produce steel swords.

    I would like your feedback on this everyone.

  10. #10
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Jeremy_A_Neel's Avatar
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    You can see the lock fail in the video, when the guy's doing spine whacks on the car door.
    "If you have a difficult task, give it to a lazy person - they will find an easier way to do it." -Hlade's Law

  11. #11
    Spyderco Forum Registered User phillipsted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpyderEdgeForever View Post
    Explain why you become dubious at this. Isn't that proof that the knife is tough? Its the principle of "A Fortiori", the argument from the stronger position. Example: If I can walk 100 miles, I can walk 10 miles, because 100 miles is harder and takes more effort and endurance ability...
    ...Primarily because these aren't tasks I normally associate with knives. Prybars, screwdrivers, machetes, hatchets, maybe, but not normally knives. Would you buy an axe because it was advertised as "sharp enough to shave with"? Probably not. A shaving edge would get destroyed the first time you swung the axe into a log.

    I get amused when rhetoric is based on circular reasoning - in the field of informal logic, this is known as the fallacy of petitio principii.

    TedP

  12. #12
    Spyderco Forum Registered User SpyderEdgeForever's Avatar
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    Thank you. So if a knife has a lock that can hold up the weight of a car, does that make the knife and its lock good for knife use?

  13. #13
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Ned's Avatar
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    Not my cup of tea...
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  14. #14
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Greg Walker's Avatar
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    The tests shown mirror those done by Cold Steel which were very successful marketing wise as well as affirming the claims made by Lynn Thompson (back in the day) regarding his product line.

    May have to get the BLUE just to check it out.

    Verrrrry interesting
    Greg Walker (Retired)
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  15. #15
    Spyderco Forum Registered User SolidState's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpyderEdgeForever View Post
    If a society can produce steel, then by the a fortiori argument, that same society can make bronze, because steel is more complicated to make and requires greater heat whereas bronze is softer and requires less heat and less technology to produce...
    Any society that can produce lasers can produce steel swords, because lasers are more complex and require a greater technology level, so, by default that society has already passed the point of being able to produce steel swords.
    Neither of these things are true. They require different elements, as in periodic table elements.
    "Nothing is so fatal to the progress of the human mind as to suppose that our views of science are ultimate; that there are no mysteries in nature; that our triumphs are complete, and that there are no new worlds to conquer."
    Sir Humphry Davy

  16. #16
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Evil D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpyderEdgeForever View Post
    Thank you. So if a knife has a lock that can hold up the weight of a car, does that make the knife and its lock good for knife use?
    Good for "knife use" and good for "holding up the weight of a car" are very different things. For example, you could probably take your standard size crow bar and sharpen one side into an edge. That edge would probably be something like 70 degrees inclusive. It would cut things, but just because it has an edge does that make it good for knife use? It would also still be awesome at prying things and you could probably beat holes through concrete walls with it and it would still cut things (assuming you didn't mangle the edge), but again does that stuff make it good for knife use? Just because a knife can pry a door off it's hinges, doesn't mean it'll work well as a knife when you get around to actually using it to cut things.

    Now, any time this subject comes up, I like to bring up the Wildsteer WX folder (I'm sure some people are sick of hearing about it). That knife, I fully believe you could use it as a car door stabbing tool and nothing more. You could stab doors with that knife 8 hours a day all day long and not break it. Does that mean it's a better knife? Well, I guess if your goal is to stab doors then yeah, but I will tell you it sure doesn't make it a better slicer, and it doesn't make it a better EDC since it weighs like 10oz and will take up your entire front pocket. Still, I enjoy this knife just because it makes me giggle when I beat the crap out of it and it doesn't break. I'm simple minded sometimes and easily amused, but I'm smart enough to know that this is just one end of the spectrum and not to put all my faith in the knife that can baton through a car door.

    I think the problem with these "tests" is that you can stab through a car door with a lot of knives, but how many times can you do that kind of abuse before the knife breaks? Way back in the 70s, one of the original infomercials was for Ginsu kitchen knives, and they showed in the commercial cutting through steel cans with the knives and then slicing tomatoes. I can tell you from experience, I cut up some steel cans with my mother's Ginsu's and afterwards they wouldn't cut a tomato to save your life. In a lot of those types of videos, you're seeing a one time event that is being portrayed as something the knife or tool can withstand repeatedly, and I think for 99% of those items this is just not true and if you go out and do those things, you will surely break that tool.

    So the real question is, at what point have you asked too much of a knife, and you've designed and built it into something more than a knife, up to the point that it no longer does the job of a knife as well as it should? My Wildsteer is fun to chop with, but it doesn't chop as well as a proper machete or hatchet. It's fun to pry with, but I would feel safer prying with a crowbar or pry bar. It's fun to cut things with, but it doesn't slice as well as my Caly 3. It's a really cool knife, with a bomb proof lock and pivot design that I really enjoy from an engineering perspective, but when you really step back and look at it, it's badass as doing all those brutal hard use things, but it's really kinda crappy at being just a plain old knife.

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  17. #17
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Greg Walker's Avatar
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    Nice post. Agreed.
    Greg Walker (Retired)
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  18. #18
    Spyderco Forum Registered User SpyderEdgeForever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolidState View Post
    Neither of these things are true. They require different elements, as in periodic table elements.
    The point is this, if an individual or group of people has the ability to do something that requires greater abilities, then by default, they can do that which requires lesser abilities. If you can produce furnaces and forges and processing systems able to smelt iron into steel, and form alloy steels, then by default, you can also work bronze, because even though bronze is made from copper and tin, and steel is (basic) made from iron and carbon, it takes greater technological abilities to produce steel than it does to produce bronze.

    A society that can build steam driven power boats, can by default, build wind and sail powered sailing ships. Why? Because it takes greater abilities and powers to put together steam ships than it does sailing ships.

    If you can perform calculus and algebra, then by default, you can perform addition and subtraction, because addition and subtraction are easier and simpler than calculus and algebra, and in order to get to calculus and algebra, you had to pass through addition and subtraction.

    Does that clarify it for you, SolidState?

  19. #19
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Blerv's Avatar
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    I prefer my "army knives" with tweezers .
    Blake

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    http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USKnife.pdf

  20. #20
    Spyderco Forum Registered User xceptnl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blerv View Post
    I prefer my "army knives" with tweezers .
    Or at least a bottle opener
    My 's:
    Native, Manix 2 (BD1,154CM,S30V,M4,XHP,S110V,Cruwear), Delica 4 (White,Red,Brown,Blue,BRG,G-10), Spyderhawk, D'fly (H1,G-10,SB), Police3, Volpe, Military (S30V,XHP,D2,M390,BG42,440V,Cruwear), Superleafs, Forager, D2 Para, Kopas, Kiwis, Caly (JR's,3,3.5), Para2 (XHP,204P), Stretch (SS,FRN's,CF), Rescues, Dyad Jr, Pingos, Southard, AIR, Jess Horns, Forum N5, Lil Matriarch, Barong, Superhawk, Chinook II, ATR, SPY-DK, Captain, Ti UKPK, Mules

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