Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 31

Thread: Idea to increase power for your car (maybe ?)

  1. #1
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Strong-Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    521

    Idea to increase power for your car (maybe ?)

    So I know that adding gunpowder to your gas tank won't do a thing. But what about if I were to dissolve smokeless powder in acetone? It should be able to pass through the fuel filter this way. Has anyone tried something similar? Will the powder be able to combust when dissolved in acetone? I think it would but I'm not sure. Any chemists or car experts out there?

    P.S.-Not trolling, but if this is actually the stupidest idea you've ever heard then please tell me. But don't call me an idiot unless you know if this would actually do anything
    Q: What was the most positive result of the "Cash for clunkers"
    program?

    A: It took 95% of the Obama bumper stickers off the road.
    -Letterman

  2. #2
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Spydersense's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    434
    I don't know if it will work, but it seems like an expensive way to gain some HP.
    Time for another !

    -Matt

  3. #3
    Spyderco Forum Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    355
    If you want to add more power, just dump in some nitro methane.

  4. #4
    Spyderco Forum Registered User SolidState's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    1,532
    You probably want to avoid gunpowder in your gasoline. Have you ever read about what happens when you put salt in a gas tank? Potassium nitrate is a salt, and it is pretty common to a variety of gunpowders. It will increase the corrosion rate of metals.
    Last edited by SolidState; 04-13-2014 at 11:53 PM.
    "Nothing is so fatal to the progress of the human mind as to suppose that our views of science are ultimate; that there are no mysteries in nature; that our triumphs are complete, and that there are no new worlds to conquer."
    Sir Humphry Davy

  5. #5
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Blerv's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    10,109
    Gasoline is not a perfect source of power but it's certainly not the worse. If you mix smokeless powder and acetone it would probably be like running 10 octane and turn your engine into charred melted aluminium and steel.

    Most performance engines run premium octane fuel, race cars run upwards of 100 octane. This fuel is actually more difficult to combust than 87 octane to control detonation. Diesel and nitro methylene are even higher (comparatively). You can take advantage of more extreme ignition, boost, and higher natural compression ratios in normally aspirated applications.

    Nitrous oxide (NOS, a brand "Nitrous Oxide Systems") as a spray is actually is a compromise to injecting oxygen that would burn holes in your engine like a cutting torch. More fuel, more air-replacement, more power via chemical displacement. It's a Bunsen Burner version of a supercharger or turbo.

    Modern engines are extremely well monitored and controlled. My Mazda 6 runs direct injected fuel into the cylinders and 13:1 compression ratios on regular gas without detonation. Compared to a carbureted engine running high octane leaded gas 50 years ago. Performance is pretty much done for these newer engines. For older ones often it's a simple fix here or there because 225 hp (or 180 at the wheels) out of 300+ cubic inches is far from done.

    Where is the future of performance? Hydrogen or nuclear power probably. At the moment electric is showing insane promise. Here is a converted M3 with 850 pounds of torque at like 600 rpm and a powerband like a light switch...

    http://drive.jalopnik.com/this-elect...-509031514/all
    Blake

    Listing of Blade-Length Laws by State/County (Not My Website)
    http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USKnife.pdf

  6. #6
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Clip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Forest, VA
    Posts
    1,546
    We always dissolved single- and multi-base propellants in MEK for lab analysis.

    I agree with Blerv, add more oxygen for more power. Then compensate with larger injectors, higher pressures, etc.
    Click here to zoom: Under the Microscope

    Manix2, Elmax MT13, M4 Manix2, ZDP Caly3, ZDP Caly Jr, SB Caly3.5, M390 Para2, Cruwear MT12, Techno, XHP MT16, South Fork, SB Caly3, Manix2 Ltwt, Salt I, 20CP Para2, Military Left Hand, Perrin PPT, Forum Native5, Squeak, Manix 83mm, 440V Military, Gayle Bradley, Swick3, Lil' Temperance, Cruwear Military, VG10 Jester, Terzuola SlipIt, XHP Native Ltwt, Domino, CPM154/S90V Para2, SB Stretch, D2 Para, Dfly2 Salt, Tasman Salt

    Chris

  7. #7
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Strong-Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    521
    Wow. Thanks guys. I knew this place was really good, but I didn't know it was good for everything.
    Q: What was the most positive result of the "Cash for clunkers"
    program?

    A: It took 95% of the Obama bumper stickers off the road.
    -Letterman

  8. #8
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Strong-Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    521
    Has anyone ever thought of having a whole compressed gas tank? Then you would be able to add the NOS directly to it, correct? Or instead of a supercharger or turbo, just run a tank of compressed 02 right into the inlet? Then when you need a shot pure oxygen would be available.
    Q: What was the most positive result of the "Cash for clunkers"
    program?

    A: It took 95% of the Obama bumper stickers off the road.
    -Letterman

  9. #9
    Spyderco Forum Registered User defenestrate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    on my way to the mountain
    Posts
    2,117
    Then you would be a rolling bomb.
    I don't get mad. I get..Stabby.
    -Fat Tony

  10. #10
    Spyderco Forum Registered User defenestrate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    on my way to the mountain
    Posts
    2,117
    Gunpowder doesn't work wet, so you would end up with a bunch of additives increasing corrosioj as already said. I have toyed with the idea of gunpowder as a propellant, but I think it would be ridiculously loud, and perhaps work with a system of powerful springs to soak up all that energy at once.

    More practical, for gunpowder, a turbine, perhaps? The explosive power of gunpowder is really best used to do a lot of work very quickly, as in firearms and more recently, nail guns. That power has to go somewhere and it would take a complicated apparatus to store all that energy effectively, not to mention the wear on parts, which could be engineered for but not likely hold up long in constant use. I think the idea is interesting in a steampunk kinda way, but not very pragmatic.

    Better atomization with much higher pressure at the fuel rail (direct injection) is starting to get more use in gas-powered vehicles, but is probably finicky and highly computerized in them so not as much a tinker's toy as simpler designs would be. I'm toying wih the idea of improving the atomization of fuel in my simple carburated 84 F150, but as I need to actually drive it, it could be an issue if I muck with its reliability.
    I don't get mad. I get..Stabby.
    -Fat Tony

  11. #11
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Evil D's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Northern KY
    Posts
    9,164
    Even if it would burn you're just adding an explosive to an already burning material so you wouldn't see gains. Like mentioned if you want more power you need higher compression and just more air and fuel.

    As for the future of performance, electric cars are the future. That's coming from a total petrol head. Once battery tech develops well enough to recharge fast and have longer run times, electric will take over. The magic is that an electric engine makes 100% of it's potential torque the instant it starts spinning, and it can spin to crazy RPMs. Not only that but the design of electric engines allows for a super low center of gravity. Put all that together and you have a car that will accelerate like a bullet, wind out like a F1 car and corner like it's on rails.

    SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
    ~David

    Official plea to Sal: Can we PLEASE get a DLC Yojimbo 2? PLEASE!!?

  12. #12
    Spyderco Forum Registered User 78lilred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Lincoln, Nebraska
    Posts
    306
    If you'd like some fun go with e85 or higher and boost.
    M390 Para2, CTS-XHP Para2, CTS-204P Para2, Gayle Bradley, Techno, Bob T Slipit, M390 Mule, Southard, Southfork, Air, Tuff, ZDP Caly 3.5.

  13. #13
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Blerv's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    10,109
    The closest thing (that's being done) to what you are asking for is propane injection. There are a number of kits for older engines that don't have to deal with emissions. It's cleaner and in many ways more efficient, I don't think they have made it into true performance builds tho. Mainly off road rock crawlers and fuel economy projects.

    The amount of precision that can be tuned these days with petrol or diesel is insane. Emission and noise legality are the main limiting factors to performance, that and reliability that gets you past a few oil changes between rebuilds.

    You won't find an oxygen co-fueled car as mentioned because the explosive factor. That and managing internal temps would have to be managed by a Tolkien dwarven blacksmith with materials that don't come off the shelf. Seriously though, what's the goal? 400whp daily driver? 800whp daily driver? It's extremely possible...at that point it's the ludicrous problem of wheelspin at 80mph on dry pavement or getting reckless driving tickets in 3 seconds.
    Blake

    Listing of Blade-Length Laws by State/County (Not My Website)
    http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USKnife.pdf

  14. #14
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Strong-Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    521
    Quote Originally Posted by Blerv View Post
    The closest thing (that's being done) to what you are asking for is propane injection. There are a number of kits for older engines that don't have to deal with emissions. It's cleaner and in many ways more efficient, I don't think they have made it into true performance builds tho. Mainly off road rock crawlers and fuel economy projects.

    The amount of precision that can be tuned these days with petrol or diesel is insane. Emission and noise legality are the main limiting factors to performance, that and reliability that gets you past a few oil changes between rebuilds.

    You won't find an oxygen co-fueled car as mentioned because the explosive factor. That and managing internal temps would have to be managed by a Tolkien dwarven blacksmith with materials that don't come off the shelf. Seriously though, what's the goal? 400whp daily driver? 800whp daily driver? It's extremely possible...at that point it's the ludicrous problem of wheelspin at 80mph on dry pavement or getting reckless driving tickets in 3 seconds.
    Thanks for all the info. This has been a very interesting read. And to answer defenestrate, I know that gunpowder doesn't work wet, but I'm fairly sure that at least smokeless powder is still combustable in acetone. Could be wrong though
    Q: What was the most positive result of the "Cash for clunkers"
    program?

    A: It took 95% of the Obama bumper stickers off the road.
    -Letterman

  15. #15
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Pinetreebbs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    1,595
    Quote Originally Posted by Strong-Dog View Post
    Has anyone ever thought of having a whole compressed gas tank? Then you would be able to add the NOS directly to it, correct? Or instead of a supercharger or turbo, just run a tank of compressed 02 right into the inlet? Then when you need a shot pure oxygen would be available.
    I recall seeing a picture of a dragster that ran on compressed fuel and oxygen. There were no carbon fiber tanks back then so weight may have been a killer. Joe Mezquita's ran a CNG, Compressed Natural Gas Dragster at one time. If it would make a dragster go faster, it has been tried.

    For liquid fuels your best bet is nitromethane. In the right engine and car, it will get you over 300 mph in a quarter mile and the resulting sound will hit 3.2 on the Richter scale:

    "Nitromethane is used as a fuel in motor racing, particularly drag racing, as well as for rockets and radio-controlled models (such as cars, planes and helicopters) and is commonly referred to in this context as "nitro." The oxygen content of nitromethane enables it to burn with much less atmospheric oxygen."

    The problem with increasing the energy of fuel is the ability of your engine to stay together under higher than design stress and heat loads and your running gear to handle the increase in horsepower. You can go as fast as your wallet will allow.
    Have you joined Knife Rights yet? Go to: www.KnifeRights.org
    Protecting your Right to own and carry the knives YOU choose.

  16. #16
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Strong-Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    521
    Quote Originally Posted by Pinetreebbs View Post
    I recall seeing a picture of a dragster that ran on compressed fuel and oxygen. There were no carbon fiber tanks back then so weight may have been a killer. Joe Mezquita's ran a CNG, Compressed Natural Gas Dragster at one time. If it would make a dragster go faster, it has been tried.

    For liquid fuels your best bet is nitromethane. In the right engine and car, it will get you over 300 mph in a quarter mile and the resulting sound will hit 3.2 on the Richter scale:

    "Nitromethane is used as a fuel in motor racing, particularly drag racing, as well as for rockets and radio-controlled models (such as cars, planes and helicopters) and is commonly referred to in this context as "nitro." The oxygen content of nitromethane enables it to burn with much less atmospheric oxygen."

    The problem with increasing the energy of fuel is the ability of your engine to stay together under higher than design stress and heat loads and your running gear to handle the increase in horsepower. You can go as fast as your wallet will allow.
    Huh. Very interesting. So if I get my hands on some nitro and find the proper ratio, I could add it right to my tank. Maybe one day ill try
    Last edited by Strong-Dog; 04-14-2014 at 01:20 PM. Reason: add
    Q: What was the most positive result of the "Cash for clunkers"
    program?

    A: It took 95% of the Obama bumper stickers off the road.
    -Letterman

  17. #17
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Strong-Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    521
    O and to answer Blerve, no real purpose except curiosity. I don't really want to blow up, and I would most likely get a supercharger before adding smokeless powder and acetone, or adding pure O2. However I'm definitely no car expert, and nitro is something I've overlooked.
    Q: What was the most positive result of the "Cash for clunkers"
    program?

    A: It took 95% of the Obama bumper stickers off the road.
    -Letterman

  18. #18
    Spyderco Forum Registered User defenestrate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    on my way to the mountain
    Posts
    2,117
    IIRC, if you get your car running on ethanol, nitromethane is not too difficult.
    I don't get mad. I get..Stabby.
    -Fat Tony

  19. #19
    Spyderco Forum Registered User SolidState's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    1,532
    "Wet" can mean a few things. I think there is some confusion about what wet with water and wet with acetone will do. I'm going to try to get the lab supervisor to let me play with this today. Acetone is highly flammable, so it probably wont ruin gun powder like water kind of does.
    "Nothing is so fatal to the progress of the human mind as to suppose that our views of science are ultimate; that there are no mysteries in nature; that our triumphs are complete, and that there are no new worlds to conquer."
    Sir Humphry Davy

  20. #20
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Strong-Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    521
    Quote Originally Posted by SolidState View Post
    "Wet" can mean a few things. I think there is some confusion about what wet with water and wet with acetone will do. I'm going to try to get the lab supervisor to let me play with this today. Acetone is highly flammable, so it probably wont ruin gun powder like water kind of does.
    Seriously?! That is awesome
    Q: What was the most positive result of the "Cash for clunkers"
    program?

    A: It took 95% of the Obama bumper stickers off the road.
    -Letterman

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •