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Thread: Idea for a hard use folder

  1. #81
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Evil D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robot37 View Post
    Here's some constructive criticism for the OP:
    Stressing a METAL component to its yield point will result in plastic deformation, anything beyond that risks fracture.
    So: NO, there is not a single magic component that will give you what you are asking for. What you are going to need is a complex system of springs & levers to indicate when the pivot is about to break.
    Basically you are looking for a torque wrench.
    Why does the handle have to be made from metal?

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  2. #82
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Evil D's Avatar
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    The more I think about this, I keep coming back to the same idea and if I had the tools to make this knife I would just to see how it works. I think if you used very rigid slabs of rubber for the handle, it would work the way I'm imagining it, and as for the lock since I can't engineer a lock design on my own, I'd just make it a friction folder (maybe even a simple Opinel style "lock"?). That wouldn't be ideal for all types of hard use, you wouldn't want to stab with it for example, but you could do very hard bushcraft type work with it without fear of the blade closing on you, and with the lack of a lock you could baton the crap out of it without fear of breaking the lock. It would need a very large pivot, with either very large screw heads on the outside or even washers, to distribute stress over a larger area of the handle scales and to keep the pivot from ripping out of the handles. I keep thinking you could even use something like car tire sidewall rubber for this, if you could find strips of tire that are flat enough to use, plus the added belts inside would help with rigidity. Depending on the rubber, you should be able to cut into wood etc with plenty of force and not feel a perceivable amount of flexing or twisting, but when then you could beat the pivot with a hammer if you wanted and the rubber handle would absorb the shock. It would also need an equally large and stout stop pin for the blade to press against to handle impact stress.

    I don't think urethane would be rigid enough, but it's along the right kind of rubber to use because of how it holds up to prolonged amounts of stress (as in car suspension bushings). I think the combination of two large diameter pins (pivot and stop pins) would keep vertical flex to a minimum, while the large washers in the pivot would help lateral flex. It probably wouldn't be any good for prying, which to be honest I don't know how we got on the subject of prying, since even with my Wildsteer I've never felt the need to pry with my knifes....to me hard use is more about chopping/batoning/twisting than using the knife to pry with. Blade wise, you could run a 1/4 inch thick blade stock on something like this to allow the pivot to be big and thick to aid in flex and shock absorption, but then grind the blade thinner down to maybe 3-4mm so it still slices somewhat well but is still thick enough to handle twisting style cuts (like when carving out a knot in wood) or batoning. Since you wouldn't want to stab with something like this (being a friction folder) you could distal taper it if you like too. In fact, instead of a lock, why not make it a friction folder, but also incorporate a locking pin that goes through the handle and tang to completely lock the blade in place while open? That would add a third pin through the rubber to distribute stress through.

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  3. #83
    Spyderco Forum Registered User All-R-Crazy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil D View Post
    The more I think about this, I keep coming back to the same idea and if I had the tools to make this knife I would just to see how it works. I think if you used very rigid slabs of rubber for the handle, it would work the way I'm imagining it, and as for the lock since I can't engineer a lock design on my own, I'd just make it a friction folder (maybe even a simple Opinel style "lock"?). That wouldn't be ideal for all types of hard use, you wouldn't want to stab with it for example, but you could do very hard bushcraft type work with it without fear of the blade closing on you, and with the lack of a lock you could baton the crap out of it without fear of breaking the lock. It would need a very large pivot, with either very large screw heads on the outside or even washers, to distribute stress over a larger area of the handle scales and to keep the pivot from ripping out of the handles. I keep thinking you could even use something like car tire sidewall rubber for this, if you could find strips of tire that are flat enough to use, plus the added belts inside would help with rigidity. Depending on the rubber, you should be able to cut into wood etc with plenty of force and not feel a perceivable amount of flexing or twisting, but when then you could beat the pivot with a hammer if you wanted and the rubber handle would absorb the shock. It would also need an equally large and stout stop pin for the blade to press against to handle impact stress.

    I don't think urethane would be rigid enough, but it's along the right kind of rubber to use because of how it holds up to prolonged amounts of stress (as in car suspension bushings). I think the combination of two large diameter pins (pivot and stop pins) would keep vertical flex to a minimum, while the large washers in the pivot would help lateral flex. It probably wouldn't be any good for prying, which to be honest I don't know how we got on the subject of prying, since even with my Wildsteer I've never felt the need to pry with my knifes....to me hard use is more about chopping/batoning/twisting than using the knife to pry with. Blade wise, you could run a 1/4 inch thick blade stock on something like this to allow the pivot to be big and thick to aid in flex and shock absorption, but then grind the blade thinner down to maybe 3-4mm so it still slices somewhat well but is still thick enough to handle twisting style cuts (like when carving out a knot in wood) or batoning. Since you wouldn't want to stab with something like this (being a friction folder) you could distal taper it if you like too. In fact, instead of a lock, why not make it a friction folder, but also incorporate a locking pin that goes through the handle and tang to completely lock the blade in place while open? That would add a third pin through the rubber to distribute stress through.
    I bet u could make a mini pry bar using the blade's tang if it was a friction folder with thick original stock
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  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolidState View Post
    If we want to get this figured out, we will need materials.
    The way he's talking now, you could make the whole thing out of an old Chevy ... a leaf spring, a tire, and a couple of bolts ...

    Gordon

  5. #85
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Evil D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by All-R-Crazy View Post
    I bet u could make a mini pry bar using the blade's tang if it was a friction folder with thick original stock
    THAT is a really cool idea. I've seen a lot of friction folders that use the tang for a bottle opener (Michael Morris).

    SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
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  6. #86
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Evil D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaj999 View Post
    The way he's talking now, you could make the whole thing out of an old Chevy ... a leaf spring, a tire, and a couple of bolts ...

    Gordon
    Witty. Then again, I could get decent carbon steel from leaf springs and if the side wall rubber would work...

    Oh and for the record, performance would be better if I used old Ford parts

    SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
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    Official plea to Sal: Can we PLEASE get a DLC Yojimbo 2? PLEASE!!?

  7. #87
    Spyderco Forum Registered User SolidState's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by All-R-Crazy View Post
    I bet u could make a mini pry bar using the blade's tang if it was a friction folder with thick original stock
    I tried putting utility into the tang of the Introvert, and they were hesitant to use that aspect of the design because they foresaw all of the complaints when people ruin their tangs and have a knife that no longer works because of the abuse that was brought on by advertising that feature.

    Sometimes you have to look at it from the aspect of who will be blamed when people push the knife past the limits, and what the internet does to amplify the issue.
    "Nothing is so fatal to the progress of the human mind as to suppose that our views of science are ultimate; that there are no mysteries in nature; that our triumphs are complete, and that there are no new worlds to conquer."
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  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil D View Post
    Oh and for the record, performance would be better if I used old Ford parts
    I know. I was torn between Chevy and Yugo ... (ducking for cover)

    Gordon

  9. #89
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Apophis's Avatar
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    Here goes,

    How about a liner lock friction folder with Vallotton-style integral thumbstuds. Scales could be some kind of Thermorun/Res C/composite to be determined with recessed liners. For steel I would be open to suggestions, but 1095, 52100, 3V, or anything off an old Ford would be fine with me.
    -Nate

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