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Thread: Yojimbo 2: initial thoughts and a word for Michael Janich

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuck_roxas45 View Post
    Yep, special technique to do it over just putting your thumb in the hole and pushing. Glad it works for you though. I hope you'll remember to do that special technique if you ever need it, God forbid.



    I think cutting is cutting and a great cutter will work for SD just as well as for utility. Probably why kitchen knives also make good weapons.
    Exactly! And where any sharp object can be used for self defense in a pinch, a lot of today's sd/tactical knives make for a terrible edc. Imo, this is one area where the Yojimbo sets itself apart from some of the tacticool nonsense out there. I have to kind of agree with you on the spyder hole though. I really love the knife so far but if I had to nitpick, the slightly hard to get to hole would be on the very short list of things that might benefit from some minor tweaking in a yojimbo 3. It's pretty much a non issue for my mundane uses, but I can see it being a concern on a sd knife.

  2. #22
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Cameron's Avatar
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    I used to think people were silly for making a big deal out of the partially occluded hole on a Yo2 and I love both my Yojimbo and Yojimbo 2. However after owning one for several months now and practicing and carrying it a lot, some of the guys here are right it is actually a more difficult knife to open than a Manix or Para or even the Yojimbo.

    I just tried pulling it from a pocket 5 times and opening as quickly as possible and messed it up twice. Tried the same thing with a Manix2 and Para2 and never messed up with either.

    I think the "dip" on the spine is too deep and if flatter a larger hole could have been used or the hole positioned closer to the spine. You can see this obvious difference when laying the Yo2 on a Yojimbo, Para2 or Manix2 and comparing hole size and more importantly placement.

    For this reason I find myself always carrying a Manix or Para 90% of the time....

    Cameron
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  3. #23
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Screwdriver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfingringo View Post
    Exactly! And where any sharp object can be used for self defense in a pinch, a lot of today's sd/tactical knives make for a terrible edc. Imo, this is one area where the Yojimbo sets itself apart from some of the tacticool nonsense out there. I have to kind of agree with you on the spyder hole though. I really love the knife so far but if I had to nitpick, the slightly hard to get to hole would be on the very short list of things that might benefit from some minor tweaking in a yojimbo 3. It's pretty much a non issue for my mundane uses, but I can see it being a concern on a sd knife.
    The knife is an SD knife......

    I am by no means a knife expert, but it was designed by one of the top Filipino/Martial Artist blade fighters. It is a brilliant design and was not made to be an EDC knife for just opening boxes. The knife was designed for the Filipino and reverse grip. And imho the deployment is easy as long as you practice.

    But it does make a great EDC that boxes hate.....
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Screwdriver View Post
    The knife is an SD knife......

    I am by no means a knife expert, but it was designed by one of the top Filipino/Martial Artist blade fighters. It is a brilliant design and was not made to be an EDC knife for just opening boxes. The knife was designed for the Filipino and reverse grip. And imho the deployment is easy as long as you practice.

    But it does make a great EDC that boxes hate.....
    Yes, that's exactly my point. That despite being designed as a sd knife, it still excels in many ways as a utility/edc knife. A lot of the other sd/tactical designs out there do not. I have no idea if that was part of the design philosophy, but I'm glad that's the way it turned out because I'm enjoying using it in that capacity.

  5. #25
    Spyderco Forum Registered User timlara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfingringo View Post
    Yes, that's exactly my point. That despite being designed as a sd knife, it still excels in many ways as a utility/edc knife. A lot of the other sd/tactical designs out there do not. I have no idea if that was part of the design philosophy, but I'm glad that's the way it turned out because I'm enjoying using it in that capacity.
    I'd be interested to hear Mr. Janich's reply on that as well. I suspect that you're right as he seems like a practical "real world" kinda guy.

  6. #26
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Screwdriver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfingringo View Post
    Yes, that's exactly my point. That despite being designed as a sd knife, it still excels in many ways as a utility/edc knife. A lot of the other sd/tactical designs out there do not. I have no idea if that was part of the design philosophy, but I'm glad that's the way it turned out because I'm enjoying using it in that capacity.
    The wharncliffe is a great EDC blade.....check out the CS Tuff Lite. I think EDC utility was just a secondary outcome of the design. The handle and the spine is what makes it a SD knife.
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  7. #27
    Spyderco Forum Registered User v8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuck_roxas45 View Post
    The Yo2 doesn't really work as an SD knife for me. I have a hard opening it fast and reliably because of the occluded hole.
    Hey Chuck have you tried a kinetic opening? Mine opens with a very light flick of the wrist I wish the hole was a little more uncovered myself, but it isn't a game ender for me.
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  8. #28
    Spyderco Forum Registered User v8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timlara View Post
    I'd be interested to hear Mr. Janich's reply on that as well. I suspect that you're right as he seems like a practical "real world" kinda guy.
    If you watch any of his videos it looks as he doesn't prescribe to any certain martial arts discipline, but takes bits and pieces that aren't all "show" and simply work. To me this is reflected in the Yojimbo II. It seems to be designed in a practical manner where it is useful in many roles. I would think a knife that someone uses every day would also be a very effective tool in a emergency situation due to familiarity.
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  9. #29
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Liquid Cobra's Avatar
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    I don't understand why, but I can consistently and without thought open my Yojimbo 2 without fail. You would think it would be more difficult but for me it just isn't. Perhaps it is because it is my favourite Spyderco and gets the most time in my pocket. I dunno. I will tell you that when I first got the knife it really bugged me that the hole was occluded. But I quickly got over it and it is now a non issue.

    Like many others here I would love to hear Michael Janich's thoughts on why he designed it that way.
    Top 3 's: Lum Tanto Folder, Yojimbo 2, Para-Military 2
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  10. #30
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Cameron's Avatar
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    Maybe you have little thumbs...

    Like I said above, I had heard people mentioning the smaller covered hole and thought, "nit picking twits", but then I got a Yo2 and realized that it is a little more difficult than my Manix2 or Para2 or even the Yojimbo1. If the thumb groove was shallower and the hole moved closer to the spine it would be perfect.

    Cameron
    Last edited by Cameron; 04-05-2014 at 10:26 PM.
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  11. #31
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Liquid Cobra's Avatar
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    I'm 6'2 and wear extra large sized gloves.
    Top 3 's: Lum Tanto Folder, Yojimbo 2, Para-Military 2
    Coming Soon Wish List: Yojimbo 2 CF S90V PREORDERED!!! X 2, Kiwi 4, K2, Roadie, Dog Tag Folder, Lum Tanto Fixed
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  12. #32
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Cameron's Avatar
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    Maybe it is because you have huge thumbs? What about normal sized people?
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  13. #33
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Liquid Cobra's Avatar
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    Maybe it works for some and not for others.

    Funny, I feel like I'm a normal size. What is the height restriction to be considered normal?
    Top 3 's: Lum Tanto Folder, Yojimbo 2, Para-Military 2
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  14. #34
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Cameron's Avatar
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    For those that have no idea what we are taking about...

    The smaller hole on the Yo2 is closer to the handle and then partially covered more than on any of my other Spydercos
    Yo2

    Para2

    Manix2


    You can see the differences here.

    Yo2 under Manix2


    Yo2 under Para2
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  15. #35
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Cameron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liquid Cobra View Post
    Maybe it works for some and not for others.

    Funny, I feel like I'm a normal size. What is the height restriction to be considered normal?
    How tall you are is irrelevant, the extra large glove size would be relevant, medium glove size would be... normal.

    Can you guess what size gloves I'm wearing here? (There is a spyderco in the photo).

    Last edited by Cameron; 04-05-2014 at 05:11 PM.
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  16. #36
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Liquid Cobra's Avatar
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    No I can't tell.

    Thats a sweet setup though. The extended trigger guard tells me you prefer larger holes lol.
    I wish all my spydies came with PM2 size holes too. I was just saying that I don't have any issues opening the blade.
    Top 3 's: Lum Tanto Folder, Yojimbo 2, Para-Military 2
    Coming Soon Wish List: Yojimbo 2 CF S90V PREORDERED!!! X 2, Kiwi 4, K2, Roadie, Dog Tag Folder, Lum Tanto Fixed
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    Most recently acquired: Manix 2 Cruwear, Kahr Delica, G10 UKPK's, Black Southard,Para-Military 2 Elmax, Para-Military 2 CTS 2
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  17. #37
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    edit misread sorry

  18. #38
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Screwdriver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liquid Cobra View Post
    I'm 6'2 and wear extra large sized gloves.
    I am 6'5"......
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  19. #39
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Cameron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Screwdriver View Post
    I am 6'5"......
    I like the colour yellow...
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  20. #40
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    Thank you all for the discussion, your enthusiasm for the Yo2, and your questions.

    With regard to the utilitarian function of the Yo2--absolutely. I grew up in pretty humble surroundings. Although we didn't have much, my Dad was very smart and skilled with his hands. I learned that the best way to have stuff was to make it, so I used to spend hours making toys out of cardboard, scrap wood, string, and anything else I could scrounge. One of my most prized possessions back then was an X-Acto knife set my Dad bought me with all the different blade shapes. Initially, I thought the different blades were cool and spent time swapping blades to cut different materials and shapes. After a while, though, I realized that the standard straight cutting edge was the most versatile. If I needed precision, the tip did the job. At the same time, if I needed cutting power, the straight cutting edge transferred power all the way to the point.

    The blade for the original Yojimbo was based very much on these experiences and the shape of a common utility knife/box cutter. It was designed before 9/11, but released after. Promoting it as a "box cutter on steroids" was not appropriate at that time, but functionally, that's exactly what it was. The Yo2 does the same thing, but even better.

    With regard to the blade hole, I designed it to fit with the natural mechanics of the hand and what works best under stress. I also tried to keep the size of the handle comfortable while keeping the width of the closed knife as minimal as possible.

    When most people hold a closed knife naturally in their hands, the back of the hand is at about a 45-degree angle to the floor and the fingers are curled around the clip, which raises the plane of the knife handle to about 45-degrees as well. This is a natural, comfortable position. Conversely, holding the knife so the closed handle is completely horizontal or completely vertical forces you to raise or lower your elbow or cant your wrist to unnatural angles.

    The most efficient motion of the thumb--especially under stress--is a straight, linear drive. Moving your thumb in an arc is a complex motor skill--one that quickly goes away under stress. When the Yo2 is held as described above, and the thumb is placed naturally in the "scallop" in the handle, the ball of the thumb engages the functional surface of the hole--the area immediately adjacent to the steel marking on the ricasso. In that position, a straight drive toward the tip of the handle's lower guard provides excellent leverage to open the blade quickly and positively. In the remaining part of the arc of travel, the thumb goes along for the ride to open the blade fully. In doing so, it rides safely clear of the edge so it doesn't get "shaved" in the process (folks who insist on opening their folders by holding them with the plane of the handle vertically are prone to doing this).

    Using this technique, the entire hole does not have to be exposed--just the functional part. That allows the handle to be slightly wider at the area of the scallop, which provides a more comfortable and secure grip. It also helps the handle to lie flat against the palm, making it easier to orient the plane of the blade during ballistic cutting, preventing the handle from twisting, and allowing greater torque when executing "comma cuts."

    If you prefer placing your entire thumb on the blade hole and tracing an arc to open your knife, you won't like the Yo2. However, you may also be working harder than necessary to open your blade and, in doing so, my be developing an opening style that is inconsistent with high-stress applications.

    Also, just to clarify, a "kinetic" opening uses a projection on the blade as a lever to open the knife--usually off an opponent's body. This was one of the defining features of the Gunting. An opening that relies on quickly rotating the closed knife, stopping the handle, and allowing the mass and inertia of the blade to carry it to the open position is an "inertial opening." Properly designed knives with solid detents or self-close mechanisms make this action one of deliberate and practiced skill. Knives that don't make it a challenge are often unsafe to carry.

    I hope this helps. Thanks again for sharing my passion for the Yo2 design.

    Stay safe,

    Mike
    Michael Janich
    Spyderco Special Projects Coordinator
    Founder and Lead Instructor, Martial Blade Concepts

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