View Poll Results: What is the purpose of a micro-bevel

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  • Increase cutting performance

    5 26.32%
  • Increase edge strength

    14 73.68%
  • Remove burrs

    8 42.11%
  • Other (please specify)

    2 10.53%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: MICRO-BEVEL. What do you thing the most important purpose is?

  1. #1
    Spyderco Forum Registered User jackknifeh's Avatar
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    MICRO-BEVEL. What do you thing the most important purpose is?

    Lots of discussions on micro-bevels. I'm talking about the very tiny ones that you can barely see. NOT the the edge bevels that are visible and easy to see because of the width. Just the little tiny ones.

    Jack

    PS
    The title should say THINK, NOT THING. My keyboard can't speel () and I don't know how to edit a title after it has been created.

    If I would have thought it through I would have put a choice in the list regarding edge retention. Now I don't know how to add another option. Comment on edge retention if you thing () a micro bevel (tiny) effects it.

    I left these multiple choice because IF a micro-bevel removes burrs it should also improve cutting performance (or edge retention).

    Jack
    Last edited by jackknifeh; 04-02-2014 at 06:54 AM.

    My EDC for a while. Stretch with carbon fiber handle, Chaparral 2, Dragonfly 2 with kirinite MOP handle, Manbug with bolster/red bone handle. Super blue/420J1 blades on all three (except Chaparral).

  2. #2
    Spyderco Forum Registered User xceptnl's Avatar
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    I chose edge strength and other. The later of which being ease of sharpening upkeep when I lower the edge angle below 15dps.
    My 's:
    Native, Manix 2 (BD1,154CM,S30V,M4,XHP,S110V,Cruwear), Delica 4 (White,Red,Brown,Blue,BRG,G-10), Spyderhawk, D'fly (H1,G-10,SB), Police3, Volpe, Military (S30V,XHP,D2,M390,BG42,440V,Cruwear), Superleafs, Forager, D2 Para, Kopas, Kiwis, Caly (JR's,3,3.5), Para2 (XHP,204P), Stretch (SS,FRN's,CF), Rescues, Dyad Jr, Pingos, Southard, AIR, Jess Horns, Forum N5, Lil Matriarch, Barong, Superhawk, Chinook II, ATR, SPY-DK, Captain, Ti UKPK, Mules

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  3. #3
    Spyderco Forum Registered User jackknifeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xceptnl View Post
    I chose edge strength and other. The later of which being ease of sharpening upkeep when I lower the edge angle below 15dps.
    That's good I think but regarding your "other" reason it gets away from the initial reason as I see it (for this poll) to put a MICRO-bevel on an edge. Using the MICRO-bevel as a touchup angle will widen the MICRO-bevel to the point it won't be MICRO any more and becomes it's own "edge bevel". An edge-bevel is easy to see. A micro-bevel is barely visible. But if you put it on there with the plan of using that angle for touchups it's a plan I use most of the time. Just using the terms I use and my thinking. But, how does the initial very tiny micro-bevel improve the edge? Or does it improve the edge at all? That you answered in your first reason.

    Jack

    My EDC for a while. Stretch with carbon fiber handle, Chaparral 2, Dragonfly 2 with kirinite MOP handle, Manbug with bolster/red bone handle. Super blue/420J1 blades on all three (except Chaparral).

  4. #4
    Spyderco Forum Registered User xceptnl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackknifeh View Post
    That's good I think but regarding your "other" reason it gets away from the initial reason as I see it (for this poll) to put a MICRO-bevel on an edge. Using the MICRO-bevel as a touchup angle will widen the MICRO-bevel to the point it won't be MICRO any more and becomes it's own "edge bevel". An edge-bevel is easy to see. A micro-bevel is barely visible. But if you put it on there with the plan of using that angle for touchups it's a plan I use most of the time. Just using the terms I use and my thinking. But, how does the initial very tiny micro-bevel improve the edge? Or does it improve the edge at all? That you answered in your first reason.

    Jack
    As Cliff has mentioned many times, with very low angles and high carbide steels, the carbide tear-out is more likely. Thus, a microbevel can help prevent this edge damage so this is why I chose edge strength and other.
    My 's:
    Native, Manix 2 (BD1,154CM,S30V,M4,XHP,S110V,Cruwear), Delica 4 (White,Red,Brown,Blue,BRG,G-10), Spyderhawk, D'fly (H1,G-10,SB), Police3, Volpe, Military (S30V,XHP,D2,M390,BG42,440V,Cruwear), Superleafs, Forager, D2 Para, Kopas, Kiwis, Caly (JR's,3,3.5), Para2 (XHP,204P), Stretch (SS,FRN's,CF), Rescues, Dyad Jr, Pingos, Southard, AIR, Jess Horns, Forum N5, Lil Matriarch, Barong, Superhawk, Chinook II, ATR, SPY-DK, Captain, Ti UKPK, Mules

    *Landon*

  5. #5
    Spyderco Forum Registered User jackknifeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xceptnl View Post
    As Cliff has mentioned many times, with very low angles and high carbide steels, the carbide tear-out is more likely. Thus, a microbevel can help prevent this edge damage so this is why I chose edge strength and other.
    Me too. I have always thought a small micro bevel, increasing the amount of steel right behind the apex will help prevent very small chips (or carbides being pulled out) while not imparing cutting performance very much. The carbide issue is pretty foreign to me as I don't know much about the science of steel. I picture it as bee bee's and peanut butter mixed together. The bee bee's are the carbides and the peanut butter is the rest of the steel. The bee bee's can be pulled out of the peanut butter if the steel behind the edge apex is thinner. See??? I'm an expert.

    Jack

    My EDC for a while. Stretch with carbon fiber handle, Chaparral 2, Dragonfly 2 with kirinite MOP handle, Manbug with bolster/red bone handle. Super blue/420J1 blades on all three (except Chaparral).

  6. #6
    Spyderco Forum Registered User xceptnl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackknifeh View Post
    The bee bee's can be pulled out of the peanut butter if the steel behind the edge apex is thinner. See??? I'm an expert.

    Jack
    Self proclaimed internet knife expert!
    My 's:
    Native, Manix 2 (BD1,154CM,S30V,M4,XHP,S110V,Cruwear), Delica 4 (White,Red,Brown,Blue,BRG,G-10), Spyderhawk, D'fly (H1,G-10,SB), Police3, Volpe, Military (S30V,XHP,D2,M390,BG42,440V,Cruwear), Superleafs, Forager, D2 Para, Kopas, Kiwis, Caly (JR's,3,3.5), Para2 (XHP,204P), Stretch (SS,FRN's,CF), Rescues, Dyad Jr, Pingos, Southard, AIR, Jess Horns, Forum N5, Lil Matriarch, Barong, Superhawk, Chinook II, ATR, SPY-DK, Captain, Ti UKPK, Mules

    *Landon*

  7. #7
    Spyderco Forum Registered User jackknifeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xceptnl View Post
    Self proclaimed internet knife expert!
    I KNOW IT! And Mom said I'd never amount to anything. Boy, did I show her.

    My EDC for a while. Stretch with carbon fiber handle, Chaparral 2, Dragonfly 2 with kirinite MOP handle, Manbug with bolster/red bone handle. Super blue/420J1 blades on all three (except Chaparral).

  8. #8
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Evil D's Avatar
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    I voted remove burrs because unless I'm running a very thin primary bevel I don't even do a traditional micro bevel. If I'm doing a 30 degree bevel I just increase the angle 1-2 degrees or so and make a few very light passes. This is a small enough difference in the angle that it won't show up on the bevel at all, because it still hits most of the bevel, it just leans more towards the edge rather than the entire bevel. It's almost a very very slight convex kind of action. On knives like my 20CP Para 2 where I'm running a 20 inclusive bevel, I'll do a 30 degree micro but mainly just for ease of sharpening and edge stability.

    SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
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    Official plea to Sal: Can we PLEASE get a DLC Yojimbo 2? PLEASE!!?

  9. #9
    Spyderco Forum Registered User
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    I'm going to consider that what I do is a microbevel by using a kitchen steel. Basically just keeping edge uniform. But I'm sure steeling over time forms a microbevel.

  10. #10
    Spyderco Forum Registered User jackknifeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil D View Post
    I voted remove burrs because unless I'm running a very thin primary bevel I don't even do a traditional micro bevel. If I'm doing a 30 degree bevel I just increase the angle 1-2 degrees or so and make a few very light passes. This is a small enough difference in the angle that it won't show up on the bevel at all, because it still hits most of the bevel, it just leans more towards the edge rather than the entire bevel. It's almost a very very slight convex kind of action. On knives like my 20CP Para 2 where I'm running a 20 inclusive bevel, I'll do a 30 degree micro but mainly just for ease of sharpening and edge stability.
    I didn't routinely use a micro bevel until I got my first ZDP knife. I could not get the edge sharp when trying to keep a wider primary bevel on the edge. I could not get it as sharp as it was brand new. It was a ZDP Michael Walker. I remember there were 4 or 5 people at the same time having a hard time with ZDP. All pretty new to sharpening. Everyone could sharpen VG-10 and others but ZDP? Just couldn't get it. Others were saying it was the same as other steels, just takes longer. I can now sharpen ZDP as good as any of the steels I have and yes it does take longer. But, I still believe it's a more difficult steel to sharpen if you want to maintain a wider primary edge bevel. This is my experience at my current skill level. Maybe after I have as much experience as others I'll feel differently. But, I still feel it's harder to get a good crisp edge on ZDP UNLESS I use a micro bevel. When removing such a small amount of steel it's much easier. I can then get the edge hair whittling sharp. I might try to get my ZDP manbug hair whitling sharp with a wide primary bevel. I haven't even tried to do that because in addition to it being harder to do I wanted to keep the apex at a bit higher angle to reduce micro chipping. It was Ben Dale that recommended trying a micro bevel on ZDP. I emailed him about it explaining I wasn't having the trouble with other steels like I was ZDP. He recommended a micro-bevel on all harder steels. Using a micro-bevel just to get an edge sharp because you can't without using one may be cheating because of less skill but that's ok. You can't gain skill overnight so a cheater I became and will continue to be if I need to. I remembered this when Evil mentioned "ease of sharpening". I should have added "ease of sharpening" as a choice. Thanks Evil. I don't think Evil said "ease of sharpening" as in he couldn't get the edge sharp without a micro-bevel. I think he meant faster, instead of easier.

    I am very curious now if I can get a good edge on ZDP now without a micro-bevel. Can't try it though because the only knife with ZDP I have is my manbug and I won't waste steel on the little blade just to find out. Maybe I should ask everyone if I should buy a ZDP Stretch just so I can test my ZDP sharpening ability. I bet everyone would say "no, no, no! Don't buy another knife".

    Jack

    My EDC for a while. Stretch with carbon fiber handle, Chaparral 2, Dragonfly 2 with kirinite MOP handle, Manbug with bolster/red bone handle. Super blue/420J1 blades on all three (except Chaparral).

  11. #11
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Evil D's Avatar
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    The funny thing about ease of sharpening and micros is I actually struggle with trying to make a true micro bevel without creating massive burrs. Maybe it's my gorilla fingers, it just seems like no matter how gentile I make my passes, if I've raised the angle enough that it only hits the very edge and will then be so small you can't see it apart from the rest of the bevel, I just raise massive burrs that I can't seem to remove no matter what I do. That's what got me doing the 1-2 degree higher thing. Now, that aside I do still do a 30 on my 20 or less inclusive edges, but I still end up doing the same thing with raising the angle a degree or two for the final passes...that's just the best way I've learned to remove burrs. The problem is by that point you can clearly see my micro bevel and it's no longer "micro'.

    SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
    ~David

    Official plea to Sal: Can we PLEASE get a DLC Yojimbo 2? PLEASE!!?

  12. #12
    Spyderco Forum Registered User
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    I don't think a micro bevel improves the edge, if it is a tiny bevel, although it might help with rolling or chipping. I would use a micro bevel for ease of sharpening. It might eventually become bigger than a micro bevel, but at that time I could reprofile the whole blade and be back to a micro bevel.

    Long ago I had an old style sharpmaker with only the 20 degree setting. I bought a coarse DMT diamond stone and built a wooden fixture to hold it at 17-18 degrees, thinking I could profile with it then do the final honing at 20 degrees on the sharpmaker.

  13. #13
    Spyderco Forum Registered User paladin's Avatar
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    voted "remove burrs." I guess that could go for eliminating a wire edge. I think microbeveling is good for all of your stated reasons Jack.

    BTW, the BB's & Peanut Butter was a great comparative mental illustration, humorous also, well done...I'm serious. It evokes a lot of senses and will be easily remembered.
    Have Kiwi, will travel...wire Paladin...Hotel Carlton, San Francisco

  14. #14
    Spyderco Forum Registered User christopher's Avatar
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    Voted for edge strength because I have found that it works. When butchering an elk, it's hard not to run into a bone no and then. I have discovered that the edge stays on the knife a bit longer and stays sharp even though I sometimes have a boo-boo slicing.
    Chris
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  15. #15
    Spyderco Forum Registered User MadRookie's Avatar
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    Edge strength
    Cutting performance
    Ease of maintenance


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