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Thread: Serrated models being discontinued?

  1. #21
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Donut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Deacon View Post
    Plus, at least some of them do not "play well" with serrations. ZDP-189 being a prime example.

    But, overall, as Blake noted, it's simple economics. If the serrated version of a knife sells well, it stays in the lineup, the Police, the various Rescue blades, the entire Salt series, and the various hawkbill and reverse S bladed models prove that. OTOH, if the serrated version of a given model doesn't sell, it gets the axe. Spyderco got stuck having to close out the serrated versions of custom collaborations at a loss so often that they stopped offering serrations on any of them about ten years back.
    I always thought that ZDP-189 played well with serrations, but ZDP-189 didn't play well with the equipment that grinds the serrations.


    I'm a sucker for FFG and Serrations.

    Really, I adore full serrated models and each time I see a model discontinued I'm a bit saddened, but then I move onto the next new model that is coming.
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  2. #22
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    I think knife companies just saw serrated edges as a new market to branch off into to sell more knives. They were first advertised as a means to cut seat belts for law enforcement and Rescue personel. However if you ask most how many times they have had to use a serrated edged knife or seat belt cutter they will laugh in your face. I got on the subject of knives a while back with a Deputy friend of mine and pulled a tap knife out of his shirt pocket like the one in the longest edc rotation thread and said this is all I carry in the way of a knife.Another said he usually uses the buckle because in all the accidents he's worked he has never yet seen a seat belt buckle damaged to the point that it wouldnT work. Serrated edges are something that shouldn't have been made in the first place. Unless on a bread knife.

  3. #23
    Spyderco Forum Registered User xceptnl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RanCoWeAla View Post
    I think knife companies just saw serrated edges as a new market to branch off into to sell more knives. They were first advertised as a means to cut seat belts for law enforcement and Rescue personel. However if you ask most how many times they have had to use a serrated edged knife or seat belt cutter they will laugh in your face. I got on the subject of knives a while back with a Deputy friend of mine and pulled a tap knife out of his shirt pocket like the one in the longest edc rotation thread and said this is all I carry in the way of a knife.Another said he usually uses the buckle because in all the accidents he's worked he has never yet seen a seat belt buckle damaged to the point that it wouldnT work. Serrated edges are something that shouldn't have been made in the first place. Unless on a bread knife.
    I must argue with you there. Serrated edges have an advantage to Plain edges and it's not all hype or marketing. Edge surface area being increased is just one of the many advantages to SE models. I agree they are not for every situation, but they work well for quite a few.
    My 's:
    Native, Manix 2 (BD1,154CM,S30V,M4,XHP,S110V,Cruwear), Delica 4 (White,Red,Brown,Blue,BRG,G-10), Spyderhawk, D'fly (H1,G-10,SB), Police3, Volpe, Military (S30V,XHP,D2,M390,BG42,440V,Cruwear), Superleafs, Forager, D2 Para, Kopas, Kiwis, Caly (JR's,3,3.5), Para2 (XHP,204P), Stretch (SS,FRN's,CF), Rescues, Dyad Jr, Pingos, Southard, AIR, Jess Horns, Forum N5, Lil Matriarch, Barong, Superhawk, Chinook II, ATR, SPY-DK, Captain, Ti UKPK, Mules

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  4. #24
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Knivesinedc's Avatar
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    It would suck if they started to not make SE models. I don't think they would completely drop SE but they need SE as an option for so many knives. PM2, Pacific salt BB, Dragonfly G10, Manix, Manix ltwt, Enuff leaf blade, the list goes on and on but these are my top wants.
    Our Freedom, you want it, Come and take it.

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  5. #25
    Spyderco Forum Registered User The Deacon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donut View Post
    I always thought that ZDP-189 played well with serrations, but ZDP-189 didn't play well with the equipment that grinds the serrations.
    Can't swear that you're wrong because, while I'm sure I read a thread where Sal posted that chipping/breakage of the serration tips was the reason they stopped offering SE ZDP-189, I don't have the patience or the search skills to find the post. Seemed logical at the time, given that one of the reasons offered for laminating ZDP-189 was its relative brittleness.
    Paul
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  6. #26
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Donut's Avatar
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    I don't know that I've ever heard of ZDP SE breaking, but I've been wrong a lot in the past.
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  7. #27
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Evil D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RanCoWeAla View Post
    I think knife companies just saw serrated edges as a new market to branch off into to sell more knives. They were first advertised as a means to cut seat belts for law enforcement and Rescue personel. However if you ask most how many times they have had to use a serrated edged knife or seat belt cutter they will laugh in your face. I got on the subject of knives a while back with a Deputy friend of mine and pulled a tap knife out of his shirt pocket like the one in the longest edc rotation thread and said this is all I carry in the way of a knife.Another said he usually uses the buckle because in all the accidents he's worked he has never yet seen a seat belt buckle damaged to the point that it wouldnT work. Serrated edges are something that shouldn't have been made in the first place. Unless on a bread knife.
    You really need to spend some time with a very sharp serrated edge. I don't mean sharp enough to saw through something, I mean every serration push cuts newsprint. That kind of sharpness on serrations is ridiculous. They aren't as versatile, but I definitely wouldn't go so far as to say they never should've been invented. After all, necessity is the mother of invention.

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  8. #28
    Spyderco Forum Registered User opusxpn's Avatar
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    Serrated edges will out cut a plain edge any day. But plain are more versatile and that is why they offer more plain edge than serrated. Its like this, there are many fast cars out there but why do they sale a Ferrari or a Porsche
    Keep 'em sharpEndura4 (blk all edges, brwn, FG, SB, RG ZDP, blk tac, wave) Salt1 (blk, yllw PE H1)Tasman(yllw SE H1) Pacific salt(blk SE H1) Stretch(ZDP, SB) Delica4(blk CE, wave, SB) Drgfly2(yllw SE H1, org PE,SB PE) Pingo(blk) Cat G10(blk) Centofante3 Ldybg3(FG,SB,Hwk yllw H1, tan H1, blk) Manbug (blk SE, SB) Manix2(Ltw trans blue PE, G10 PE, Ltw dark blue frn) Para2(dig/satin, blk/satin) Military(Cru-Wear) Resilience, Tenacious(blk CE,grn PE), K04 Blk PE, K04 Blue SE, Byrd Robin2 G10

  9. #29
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Blerv's Avatar
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    While ZDP-189 serrations may cut longer than something like VG10 serrations I can see the manufacturer grinding costs not making sense. On the same level, with less edge stability the chance of chipping those scallops is greater and the difficulty to fix them is as well.

    I recall hearing that serrated CATRA numbers are typically twice as high (on average) as plain edge ones. Factors we often favor like initial sharpness is easier to attain on a plain edge, for most. I would love to see what a serrated knife sharpened by David, Jim or Cliff could do compared to a PE one of the same steel. It would be a funky test but extremely interesting .
    Blake

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  10. #30
    Spyderco Forum Registered User opusxpn's Avatar
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    Serrations are wonderful I got my Pacific Salt today
    Keep 'em sharpEndura4 (blk all edges, brwn, FG, SB, RG ZDP, blk tac, wave) Salt1 (blk, yllw PE H1)Tasman(yllw SE H1) Pacific salt(blk SE H1) Stretch(ZDP, SB) Delica4(blk CE, wave, SB) Drgfly2(yllw SE H1, org PE,SB PE) Pingo(blk) Cat G10(blk) Centofante3 Ldybg3(FG,SB,Hwk yllw H1, tan H1, blk) Manbug (blk SE, SB) Manix2(Ltw trans blue PE, G10 PE, Ltw dark blue frn) Para2(dig/satin, blk/satin) Military(Cru-Wear) Resilience, Tenacious(blk CE,grn PE), K04 Blk PE, K04 Blue SE, Byrd Robin2 G10

  11. #31
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Pockets's Avatar
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    Personally, I find that SE knives are almost easier to sharpen, particularly because you don't have to worry about every nick and dull spot. Very minor edge damage doesn't hurt SE performance nearly as much as it hurts PE performance.
    Delica PE, Dragonfly Salt SE, Stretch SE, Manbug SE, Mule 16, Sage 1, black/satin PM2, Native 5

  12. #32
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    This and other similar threads got me interested in giving SE another go. I snagged a used Tenacious SE. I sharpened it using a makeshift sharp maker out of a triangular piece of wood with sandpaper wrapped around it. It worked well enough but I got some sharp maker rods today to do it right.

    I have carried the Tenacious for a couple weeks now. Of the things I do frequently it excels at the odd yard work task. Things that aren't tough enough to go fetch clippers or machete for. It's really good at slicing thru fibrous stuff. Indoors it's as good as PE for boxes and what not. I like the grippiness of the serrations on whatever you're cutting.

    I still don't like the asymmetry of the grinds. Sharpening will take some practice to be as effortless as PE. And I used a really odd CRKT blade for some yard work that has a decent edge but phenomenal blade shape. It surprisingly rivaled the SE for a lot of things.

    Wish I had room for two knives in my pockets. There really is a place for both.
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  13. #33
    Spyderco Forum Registered User
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    Hi Lefty.Mike,

    Welcome to our forum.

    sal

  14. #34
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Ankerson's Avatar
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    Missed out on a Full Serrated S30V Military, held off too long I guess.

  15. #35
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Halfneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donut View Post
    I don't know that I've ever heard of ZDP SE breaking, but I've been wrong a lot in the past.
    I have a fully serrated Delica in ZDP-189 that has some chipping. I carried it as my work knife at an Urgent Care clinic. When we would get supplies in they usually had one of those plastic shipping bands around it. My usual practice was to slide my knife flat along the box, under the band, then twist the cutting edge up, cutting the band off. Did that with no issues at all on my VG-10 Blue Rescue I carried prior. After a month or so I noticed small chips at the apex of the scallops on the serrations - serrations, within serrations. After that I stopped cutting the plastic bands off like that and no more issues.

    That said, I like serrations. They work great on cardboard, fibrous material, and steak. I've held off getting a ParaMilitary 2 in the hopes it came out fully serrated.
    "A Delica is still a better weapon than a keyboard and a sour attitude..." Michael Janich

  16. #36
    Spyderco Forum Registered User aquaman67's Avatar
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    I'm probably the only one who prefers and actually uses a combo edge knife.

    I've never had the serrations get in the way. And like having them there when I need them. Having said that, I'm going to begrudgingly take the CE Manix 2 out of my pocket and try to carry the FRN Manix LWT when I get them this week or next. We'll see how it goes.

  17. #37
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Donut's Avatar
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    Ankerson, I'm sure you can find one. Lots must have sold.

    Halfneck, thanks for the info. I will remember it. That sounds kinda rough on an edge, but if VG-10 can handle it, it's not too rough.
    -Brian
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  18. #38
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    I am combining several threads with this comment, but a SE Military in sprint steel is needed. All Millie sprints sell like hotcakes. This would be no different. I would like to see a SE Millie in a steel that fully complements serrations. And not H1, since Japan would not import it to Golden anyway. I was thinking Cruwear?This so needs to happen. And I need to find a SE Ayoob...

  19. #39
    Spyderco Forum Registered User The Deacon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twinboysdad View Post
    And not H1, since Japan would not import it to Golden anyway.
    Not entirely true. I believe there's one H-1 model scheduled to be made in Golden. Think the bigger questions might be whether collectors would buy a serrated Military, whethe Military fans would buy one with a hollow ground blade, whether "exotic steel" fans would consider H-1 exotic enough, and whether the "buy American" crowd would consider using a foreign steel in it heresy.
    Paul
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  20. #40
    Spyderco Forum Registered User opusxpn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aquaman67 View Post
    I'm probably the only one who prefers and actually uses a combo edge knife.

    I've never had the serrations get in the way. And like having them there when I need them. Having said that, I'm going to begrudgingly take the CE Manix 2 out of my pocket and try to carry the FRN Manix LWT when I get them this week or next. We'll see how it goes.
    I use combos also but needs to be Endura size blade or larger, those combos work best for me but I do like full spyderedge on some knives.
    Keep 'em sharpEndura4 (blk all edges, brwn, FG, SB, RG ZDP, blk tac, wave) Salt1 (blk, yllw PE H1)Tasman(yllw SE H1) Pacific salt(blk SE H1) Stretch(ZDP, SB) Delica4(blk CE, wave, SB) Drgfly2(yllw SE H1, org PE,SB PE) Pingo(blk) Cat G10(blk) Centofante3 Ldybg3(FG,SB,Hwk yllw H1, tan H1, blk) Manbug (blk SE, SB) Manix2(Ltw trans blue PE, G10 PE, Ltw dark blue frn) Para2(dig/satin, blk/satin) Military(Cru-Wear) Resilience, Tenacious(blk CE,grn PE), K04 Blk PE, K04 Blue SE, Byrd Robin2 G10

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