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Thread: Clarity on the C81CFPE2 – Para Military 2 Carbon Fiber CPM 154/CPM S90V

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  1. #1
    Administrator TazKristi's Avatar
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    Clarity on the C81CFPE2 – Para Military 2 Carbon Fiber CPM 154/CPM S90V

    There has been a lot of spirited discussion about our latest Para Military 2 Sprint Run. I’d like to provide some clarity.

    First, the basics.

    The blade:
    Spyderco is the first production company to use this unique and very exotic, composite blade steel from Crucible Industries of New York. The manufacturing process is in itself unique. It begins with a 1-inch thick plate of CPM S90V. The plate is placed in a specially engineered and built steel can and the voided areas on either side of the plate are filled with CPM 154 powder. The can is positioned on a vibratory table to ensure consistent density in the packing of the powder and then it is welded shut and subjected to a vacuum to evacuate any oxygen. The can then enters an autoclave under extreme heat and pressure where the powder forge-welds with the plate. Afterwards, the can is machined off; the remaining slab is cogged-down in a roller into flattened sheets suitable for making knife blades. Where many layered steels are produced by heating plates and then sandwiching the steels together, this process uses specialized equipment and welding techniques commonly featured in the manufacture of aircraft parts where steels are held to rigorous specifications to avoid structural failure.

    The blade is ground full-flat, and additional surface jimping is machined on both the spine and the forefinger choil. A line marks the juncture where the two composite steels meet, giving each blade its own unique pattern that is the result of the homogeneous transition of two extraordinary modern powdered metals.

    The handle scales:
    Peel-ply Carbon Fiber

    The MSRP:
    $469.95 Our formula for pricing is based upon true cost and very small margins. We don’t price anything at what we think the market will bear.

    Next, I’ll tackle many of the questions/speculation that has come up.
    We set out to make approximately 300 C81CFPE2. The number was based solely upon the amount of steel we had at the time. Did we know we’d get more steel? Yes, but the lead-time for steel is longer than most people think. Particularly when you consider it’s a new, exotic steel composite. There’s also lead time for all the other materials that go into building a knife.

    Knowing that we would ultimately obtain more CPM 154/CPM S90V composite we planned to use the future stock in other models. We knew that the Para Military2 would be a great choice for the first-ever offering. We also knew that to release a small quantity now and then release more later would have consequences. Historically speaking, we’ve been down that road before and it was a less-than-friendly journey. We make it a habit to listen to our customers (you) and we learned from that journey.

    The small quantity was a reasonable test for us to determine what it would take to work with CPM 154/CPM S90V composite. I don’t know how many of you remember the first time we worked with pure CPM S90V, but there was a wicked learning curve and numerous adjustments that had to be made from a production perspective.

    Did we know that such a limited run would be highly collectable? Of course we did, that’s why it’s available to the members of the Collectors Club. Given the commitment that our CC members make, shouldn’t they, every once in a while, receive something that is truly collectable?

    Why did we choose the Para Military2? Honestly, there are a LOT of factors that go into that decision. It’s not just about the popularity of the model. Some of the factors include working it in to an already packed production schedule. Our goal was to get this new composite steel manufactured into an unbelievable knife. But that goal had to be balanced with real-world production challenges as well as the challenge of not knowing what it would be like in production. No one had done it before.

    If we held of, announced a Sprint of say 1200 or more, and then ran into production delays… well you all know how that story goes. We’ve been there too.

    There will be other models produced with CPM 154/ CPM S90V composite steel. There will be real-world testing to come in the future.

    This wasn’t about addressing the situation with “flippers” and the Mule Team (or any other limited run).

    Spyderco does not have a “Board”. Our company culture is very much so the opposite of “Corporate”. We try, very hard, every day to do business in a fair, proper and honest way. Our mindset is not about how much can we get. It’s usually more along the lines of “it’s never been done before… how can we do it.”

    Could we have done a better job of releasing more information about this one knife? Yes, yes we could have. I can’t explain it, I can’t give you an excuse for it. I’ll just offer our apology for not making an announcement sooner.

    We promise, there was no conspiracy on this one. Just a crew pushing forward through the next challenge.

    We do appreciate your passion and your commitment to Spyderco. We value each of you.

    Thanks much!
    There is nothing more important than this one day.

  2. #2
    Spyderco Forum Registered User xceptnl's Avatar
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    Thank you Kristi for shedding some light on the issue. We (as customers) appreciate Spyderco and it's dedication to it's customers as well as it's commitment to keep pushing the industry and the envelope! Looking forward to seeing what's to come.
    My 's:
    Native, Manix 2 (BD1,154CM,S30V,M4,XHP,S110V,Cruwear), Delica 4 (White,Red,Brown,Blue,BRG,G-10), Spyderhawk, D'fly (H1,G-10,SB), Police3, Volpe, Military (S30V,XHP,D2,M390,BG42,440V,Cruwear), Superleafs, Forager, D2 Para, Kopas, Kiwis, Caly (JR's,3,3.5), Para2 (XHP,204P), Stretch (SS,FRN's,CF), Rescues, Dyad Jr, Pingos, Southard, AIR, Jess Horns, Forum N5, Lil Matriarch, Barong, Superhawk, Chinook II, ATR, SPY-DK, Captain, Ti UKPK, Mules

    *Landon*

  3. #3
    Spyderco Forum Registered User senorsquare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xceptnl View Post
    Thank you Kristi for shedding some light on the issue. We (as customers) appreciate Spyderco and it's dedication to it's customers as well as it's commitment to keep pushing the industry and the envelope! Looking forward to seeing what's to come.
    Nothing to add to this comment except to add my own sincere thanks to the Spyderco crew.

  4. #4
    Spyderco Forum Registered User
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    I never had any objection to this type limited run. I for one enjoy the sport of chasing after hard to find items. I collect old military items, a field filled with forgeries. But I take it as one more challenge in the sport. If all models of Spyderco were cheap and easy to find I would own fewer, not more. If the one dealer had kept private info private this boat wouldn't be rocking so much.

  5. #5
    Spyderco Forum Registered User JNewell's Avatar
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    Thanks. Your email confirms the confidence many of us had in Spyderco and all of you who make the company the place it is.

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    Spyderco Forum Registered User wrdwrght's Avatar
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    Here's proof there is no substitute for clarity. Thanks, Kristi. Now I can hope for this steel again...
    Marc

    USUAL CARRY: Air/Techno plus one from Manix/Native/Para/Caly/Stretch series. RECENT ARRIVAL: Cruwear Manix2. ON MY RADAR: CF S110V Native5 (pre-ordered); VG10 Caly 3.5. HOLY GRAILS: Superhawk; Manix (C95 FFG PE); S90V Manix2 (C101 "Mini" or 80mm). DREAMS: Tatanka (the long-awaited Bison!); Sage5.

  7. #7
    Spyderco Forum Registered User RadioactiveSpyder's Avatar
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    Thank you Kristi for the clarification! One up already on eBay BTW...
    It's better to be good than evil, but one achieves goodness at a terrific cost. ––– Stephen King

  8. #8
    Spyderco Forum Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by RadioactiveSpyder View Post
    Thank you Kristi for the clarification! One up already on eBay BTW...

  9. #9
    Spyderco Forum Registered User bh49's Avatar
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    Kristi,
    Thank you.
    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf"
    George Orwell
    Any knife without Spyderhole is defective.
    My top choices Native5, G10/VG10 Caly 3.5/3 & C83 Persian Black micarta/bolsters

  10. #10
    Spyderco Forum Registered User michaelm466's Avatar
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    I hope to see this steel on the Manix 2 XL so we can do some head to head testing with the Full S90V version
    Southfork, Mule Team K390, Military CPM-M4/Ti, Military CTS-XHP, Military CF/M390, Para-Military 2 CPM-S90V, Para-Military 2 CTS-20CP, Para-Military 2 CTS-204P, Para-Military 2 M390, Para-Military 2 CTS-XHP, Para-Military 2 CPM-S35VN, Manix 2 XL, Manix 2 CPM-S30V/Blue G10, Manix 2 CTS-BD30P, Manix 2 CTS-XHP, Manix 2 CPM-M4, Southard, Gayle Bradley, Superhawk, Forum Native CPM-S110V, Endura Super Blue, Pacific Salt, Ladybug Hawkbill H1, Ladybug ZDP-189, Bug

  11. #11
    Spyderco Forum Registered User JNewell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelm466 View Post
    I hope to see this steel on the Manix 2 XL so we can do some head to head testing with the Full S90V version
    A Mule blade would be the PERFECT test vehicle for this sort of comparison. The fact that the steel supply is currently limited shouldn't rule out a future issue. This steel is going to be in the "experimental" category for quite a while, I think.

  12. #12
    Spyderco Forum Registered User
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    Wouldn't the Team Mule be the best platform to test this out on? No one is going to use this PM2 if they get their hands on one, haha.

  13. #13
    Spyderco Forum Registered User The Deacon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalcon View Post
    Wouldn't the Team Mule be the best platform to test this out on? No one is going to use this PM2 if they get their hands on one, haha.
    Mule uses more steel than a PM2 blade, so, instead of 300 PM2's, there'd have been 150 or so Mules. That would have made for some interesting threads.
    Paul
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  14. #14
    Spyderco Forum Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Deacon View Post
    Mule uses more steel than a PM2 blade, so, instead of 300 PM2's, there'd have been 150 or so Mules. That would have made for some interesting threads.
    Should have made 1500 or so ladybugs

  15. #15
    Spyderco Forum Registered User donutsrule's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalcon View Post
    Should have made 1500 or so ladybugs
    Bah! 10 Whale Rescues!

  16. #16
    Spyderco Forum Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by donutsrule View Post
    Bah! 10 Whale Rescues!
    ONE of these.


  17. #17
    Spyderco Forum Registered User defenestrate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalcon View Post
    Should have made 1500 or so ladybugs
    ladybug serrated hawkbills?
    I don't get mad. I get..Stabby.
    -Fat Tony

  18. #18
    Spyderco Forum Registered User All-R-Crazy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalcon View Post
    Wouldn't the Team Mule be the best platform to test this out on? No one is going to use this PM2 if they get their hands on one, haha.
    All my knives would get use it's a dishonor to spyderco if they just sit in a stand or law in a drawer
    delica ffg,endura ffg,pm2 black/black,delica sb,caly3.5 g10,caly3 sb,S90V military

    Quote Originally Posted by JAfromMN
    My favorite Spyderco is the one that I used the most Today

  19. #19
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Donut's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info Kristi.
    -Brian
    A distinguished lurker.
    Chat with us. Sharpthings - A Blog Site

  20. #20
    Spyderco Forum Registered User
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    Im happy for the collectors

    They are legitimate customers and I don't think they should be left out to dry just because the popular vocal opinion on the forums is that knives must be used and that there has to be enough for everybody

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