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Thread: Is this Shapton glass grit progression acceptable? 320-1k-4k-8k

  1. #1
    Spyderco Forum Registered User jackknifeh's Avatar
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    Is this Shapton glass grit progression acceptable? 320-1k-4k-8k

    I'm hoping a 4 stone grit progression will be satisfactory in Shapton glass bench stones. I have all the grits I mentioned in the title for the EP except the 320. I have everything from 500 to 16k in EP stones. But I've always had the feeling using the EP and bench stones there is a big difference in some things. I think the biggest thing is the fact that the EP stones are only 1" wide. With less area contact between stone and edge the lbs per sq in would be more. OTOH, not always is even the entire 1" area on the EP stones actually in contact with the edge because of the curvature of any given blade. I'm saying I don't know if my experience with the EP stones will give me an accurate guess at how the 4 stones I mentioned will work with bench stones. There is one stone skipped in the progression between the stones mentioned. Well, I feel ok with the 4k to 8k but the 320 to 1k and 1k to 4k I'm unsure of. Will I NEED a 500 and/or a 2k as well? Right now I think I'll be fine and will make any final judgements based on my using the stones but I'd still like any input from those familiar with Shapton glass bench stones. This info may help others looking to buy stones and considering these type. Right now I have everything except the 1k. I've already tried the 320 to 4k jump and it's a bit of a leap. I like one or two of my DMT and/or Spyderco stones between 320 and 4k. I'm hoping the 1k will fill the gap acceptably. Anybody know for sure or if they think a 1k is all I will need? I know this is asking for opinions and they may vary but isn't that always the case? Any help is appreciated.

    Jack
    PS
    If you are looking at Shapton glass the 320 grit really cuts fast and doesn't wear as fast as I was afraid of. I flattened it when I got it. Funny, those things come with some sort of film on them. Spray water on them and it beads like a waxed car. Anyway, I lapped it and used it enough to wonder if it had dished. I lapped it for about 5 seconds and found most of the surface was being contacted with the lapping stone right away indicating is was still VERY flat. Me happy about this.

    Edit: I forgot to add for anyone interested the Spyderco UF and the Shapton glass 4k seem to be very close in performance. When I go from the Spyderco fine to (Spyderco UF or Shapton glass 4k) then to the Shapton glass 8k either of the stones work fine. Just FYI IMO. Actually, going above the Spyderco UF or Shapton 4k is really overkill for most EDC needs. Again, my opinion. Believe it or not, after finishing either stone you can open about any cardboard box anywhere.
    Last edited by jackknifeh; 02-04-2014 at 05:28 PM.

    My EDC for a while. Stretch with carbon fiber handle, Chaparral 2, Dragonfly 2 with kirinite MOP handle, Manbug with bolster/red bone handle. Super blue/420J1 blades on all three (except Chaparral).

  2. #2
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Revival's Avatar
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    Paging Mad Rookie....Paging Mad Rookie.

  3. #3
    Spyderco Forum Registered User jackknifeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revival View Post
    Paging Mad Rookie....Paging Mad Rookie.
    My first thought was to PM him with this question. But then I figured any answers might benefit others. However,,, If he doesn't reply within an acceptable time frame I will sick the Spyderco forum PM software on him and track him down.

    Jack

    My EDC for a while. Stretch with carbon fiber handle, Chaparral 2, Dragonfly 2 with kirinite MOP handle, Manbug with bolster/red bone handle. Super blue/420J1 blades on all three (except Chaparral).

  4. #4
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Revival's Avatar
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    I'm glad you posted it... I always believe that questions like these will help others down the road. I am always trying to learn myself.

  5. #5
    Spyderco Forum Registered User MadRookie's Avatar
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    Ok people, let me firstly say that the appended comment is MY opinion only, it does not imply that others are incorrect, or will not be functional, so here goes....

    Yes, 320-1k-4k-8k will work.

    Once a bevel has been set on a knife, routine maintenance becomes a breeze.

    I for one have narrowed my maintenance down to a 2 stone progression - depending on what type of edge finish I need i.e. slicer, push cutter etc.

    So for my kitchen units I do this:

    Gyuto: #500/2k - after the #500, just a few light strokes with the 2k to ever so slightly refine the #500 toothiness - very good slicer.

    Petty: #500/4k - after the #500 slightly more light strokes to refine the #500 toothiness even further - good balance of both slicing & push cutting.

    Parer: #500/8k - after the #500 even more light strokes to refine the #500 toothiness - edge leans more towards push cutting but still has a bit of bite.

    When following the #500 stone, I increase the angle just a hair's breadth to ensure hitting the EOTE (edge of the edge).

    The amount of strokes & pressure on the stone following the lower grit stone will determine the characteristics of the final edge - it takes a bit of trial & error - in the beginning I usually overdid this bit with too many passes per side.....


    My EDC:

    #320/1k - after the #320, just a few light strokes with the 1k to ever so slightly refine the #320 toothiness - excellent slicer.

    Ideally a 1 stone maintenance routine would be the berries, but I personally find that falling back to the lower grit stone is necessary to reinstate the toothy base to work from.

    There are so many combinations one can try, and the knife steel and final use plays a major role in determining which route to take.

    It finally boils down to personal taste & what works for you.

    I still experiment daily, with varying results - an ever learning curve.....

    For me the days of running a close progression with many stones are over, unless I am chasing a mirror finish....


  6. #6
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Revival's Avatar
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    Awesome info Rookie!

  7. #7
    Spyderco Forum Registered User kbuzbee's Avatar
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    Wait WHAT?

    No 30K Jack?

    Don't you want your edges to glow in the dark?



    Ken
    玉鋼

  8. #8
    Spyderco Forum Registered User jackknifeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadRookie View Post
    Ok people, let me firstly say that the appended comment is MY opinion only, it does not imply that others are incorrect, or will not be functional, so here goes....

    Yes, 320-1k-4k-8k will work.

    Once a bevel has been set on a knife, routine maintenance becomes a breeze.

    I for one have narrowed my maintenance down to a 2 stone progression - depending on what type of edge finish I need i.e. slicer, push cutter etc.

    So for my kitchen units I do this:

    Gyuto: #500/2k - after the #500, just a few light strokes with the 2k to ever so slightly refine the #500 toothiness - very good slicer.

    Petty: #500/4k - after the #500 slightly more light strokes to refine the #500 toothiness even further - good balance of both slicing & push cutting.

    Parer: #500/8k - after the #500 even more light strokes to refine the #500 toothiness - edge leans more towards push cutting but still has a bit of bite.

    When following the #500 stone, I increase the angle just a hair's breadth to ensure hitting the EOTE (edge of the edge).

    The amount of strokes & pressure on the stone following the lower grit stone will determine the characteristics of the final edge - it takes a bit of trial & error - in the beginning I usually overdid this bit with too many passes per side.....


    My EDC:

    #320/1k - after the #320, just a few light strokes with the 1k to ever so slightly refine the #320 toothiness - excellent slicer.

    Ideally a 1 stone maintenance routine would be the berries, but I personally find that falling back to the lower grit stone is necessary to reinstate the toothy base to work from.

    There are so many combinations one can try, and the knife steel and final use plays a major role in determining which route to take.

    It finally boils down to personal taste & what works for you.

    I still experiment daily, with varying results - an ever learning curve.....

    For me the days of running a close progression with many stones are over, unless I am chasing a mirror finish....

    Thanks MR. Thanks for the confirmation that the 4 stone set I'll have will work. I think with the 4 Shapton glass stones and the DMT and Spydercos I have I'll have all I will want. For now anyway. I don't really know when to shoot for a toothy edge or a smooth edge other than these two examples. Push cut wood? Smooth edge and bevel. Slice tomato? Toothy edge to saw through the skin quickly. That's what I believe to be accurate. Above and beyond that I'll need to play with in the future some. But I should have the stones to do whatever I want. Scratchy bevel and tooty edge to a mirror bevel and smooth edge and about anything in between like a mirror bevel and toothy edge. Also the EP for when I want to use that. I do like being able to set an initial edge angle at a known angle. Then I can finish the edge with the EP or free hand. The EP is much more accurate but I'm really enjoying free hand sharpening as well.

    Thanks for the help once again.

    Jack

    My EDC for a while. Stretch with carbon fiber handle, Chaparral 2, Dragonfly 2 with kirinite MOP handle, Manbug with bolster/red bone handle. Super blue/420J1 blades on all three (except Chaparral).

  9. #9
    Spyderco Forum Registered User jackknifeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kbuzbee View Post
    Wait WHAT?

    No 30K Jack?

    Don't you want your edges to glow in the dark?



    Ken
    No 30k today but maybe tomorrow. That stone will have to wait for the next winning lottery ticket.

    Jack

    My EDC for a while. Stretch with carbon fiber handle, Chaparral 2, Dragonfly 2 with kirinite MOP handle, Manbug with bolster/red bone handle. Super blue/420J1 blades on all three (except Chaparral).

  10. #10
    Spyderco Forum Registered User jackknifeh's Avatar
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    Update about this 320, 1k, 4k, 8k grit progression.

    Madrookie was right. The progression works perfectly. I have redone a few knives now with different blade steels. The 320 removes steel VERY fast and if you like really toothy edges this is your guy. Then the 1k will smooth the bevel quite a bit and leave a really nice edge probably more desireable for toothy edge lovers. The 320 is more like a fine tooth hacksaw blade. Well, not that bad. The jump from the 1k to the 4k takes you out of toothy and deep into smooth edges. If I were to say anything negative about this progression (320, 1k, 4k, 8k) it would be that I think I would like a 2k also. 1k is really toothy and 4k is very smooth (compared to tootly). Somewhere in the middle I think is about a perfect average for the average pocket knife. Also, a 2k edge may be preferred by people who need a more specific edge type on their knives. Chefs maybe. But for me I like understanding the difference a little and being able to create the edge I want but I can carry a toothy pocket knife or a smooth pocket knife and both do just as good. I won't be getting the 2k though because the Spyderco fine grit will play the same role as a 2k stone.

    A comment for anyone interested or considering the pros and cons of different type stones. Using water stones is messier and requires more work to use than stones that can be used dry. This is one reason I think Spyderco stones are a perfect choice for a stone set. The only area Spyderco sharpeners are not able to cover is the coarser grits. But for a quick touchup the Spyderco fine or UF is perfect for me. Whip that sucker out. Sit it on any table or even on your leg. Do enough strokes to refresh the edge and put it away. In fact, I like the feeling I get from the UF stone more than the feeling I get when using the Shapton glass 8k stone. You can't even tell anything is happening to your edge when using the UF. Fear not, if you are getting the angle right your knife is getting sharper. The fine grit is like this also but you can feel it is a littl bit coarser than the UF grit. They are just great stones.

    Jack

    My EDC for a while. Stretch with carbon fiber handle, Chaparral 2, Dragonfly 2 with kirinite MOP handle, Manbug with bolster/red bone handle. Super blue/420J1 blades on all three (except Chaparral).

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