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Thread: Plastic Sword Legality Issue?

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    Spyderco Forum Registered User SpyderEdgeForever's Avatar
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    Plastic Sword Legality Issue?

    I know it is likely best to contact the legal people directly but perhaps some of you here can help me answer a question:

    If someone wanted to do a PUBLIC DEMONSTRATION with a PLASTIC/TOY/FAKE SWORD or TRAINING type Knife/Dagger, such as to demonstrate to people various sword and knife combat moves, or to use it in a public skit or theatrical drama done in the open air on a street or in a park, would this be legal, or is it actually possible that the thing would be deemed a "dangerous weapon" even though it is NOT metal, it is PLASTIC, and has no true cutting/stabbing edge. Anyone knowledgeable about this?

    As an example: Let's say you and some friends wanted to do a public reenactment of a famous sword battle, or a play where someone is stabbed but not truly harmed, like the scene from Shakespeare's Julius Caesar, where Brutus and others get Caesar with their knives, and it is not in an official theater or stage, would this be legal, or, could a police officer bother you for the open use of a fake bladed edged weapon?


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    Spyderco Forum Registered User earthman's Avatar
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    Good question, in which State were you thinking? Maybe the answer can vary from State to State??

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    Spyderco Forum Registered User KateMorison's Avatar
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    Yes That was a very good point, the state plays a decent role as far as your question concerns. So it's better to mention the state.

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    Spyderco Forum Registered User The Deacon's Avatar
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    As you noted, relying on legal advice from an internet forum is almost as dangerous as relying on medical advice from one.

    That said, what's fairly certain is that, in the USA, the answer is definitely going to vary from state to state and, in some cases, from city to city within a state just like other knife related laws. It will probably vary depending on the "plastic knife" involved as well. Some are obvious toys, some are blunt training tools, and some are weapons intended to circumvent security checkpoints. Circumstance such as location and time of day, as well as the age, demeanor, dress, and criminal history or lack of same of the participants can also be a factor.
    Paul
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    They are suspending children in schools for pretending to shoot arrows, making guns with their thumb and index fingers, and just playing with toys and using their imagination! I would be very careful because someone's little Mommy or Daddy might get offended!

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    Spyderco Forum Registered User SolidState's Avatar
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    When I was involved in MA instruction, we would often have classes in the park. In order to not have issues with the fact that we were using false weapons, we contacted all necessary authorities beforehand and clearly communicated our needs and concerns.

    When LEOs know what to expect you get a lot different reaction than if you surprise them.
    "Nothing is so fatal to the progress of the human mind as to suppose that our views of science are ultimate; that there are no mysteries in nature; that our triumphs are complete, and that there are no new worlds to conquer."
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    Spyderco Forum Registered User Blerv's Avatar
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    Yea forums aren't the best place for legal advice, at least the kind that will give you any guarantees .

    I would make sure if using a public space proper permission is granted by the authorities of that property. If possible, law enforcement are contacted in a written way to assure no laws are being broken and they would deem that acceptable public behavior. Participants have signed waivers (which are legally marginal but something at least) and you don't incorporate anyone who hasn't. That could even be considered passerby's witnessing the event and children.

    In situations like this I always reverse engineer the lawsuit(s). If the event is non-criminal, what damages could be claimed and what numeric value that damage could be worth. What is the defendant capable of paying and do they represent a larger organization (you can't squeeze water out of a rock but can out of an organization). Renting a public recreation center or school auditorium is very cheap relative to dealing with the aftermath of "offended" people; it's certainly less tiring.
    Blake

    Listing of Blade-Length Laws by State/County (Not My Website)
    http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USKnife.pdf

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    Spyderco Forum Registered User SpyderEdgeForever's Avatar
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    Thank you. I was thinking a state like New Jersey or California.

    A state with alot of anti knife laws.


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    Spyderco Forum Registered User
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    All I know is that 20 years ago in my hometown of Dothan, AL a group of Renaissance re-inactors used to amour up and beat the crap out of each other...medieval style. Maces, shields, swords, the works and no gave a rat's behind. The Dog Brothers seem to have the Gatherings at neighborhood parks. Getting permission seems to alleviate tension.

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    Spyderco Forum Registered User JNewell's Avatar
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    Context matters. Reenactors get away with things that people who are dressed in 21st century clothes and gear can't.

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    Spyderco Forum Registered User SpyderEdgeForever's Avatar
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    What was also sad is this: I was looking at websites and stores that sell fake but realistic guns, such as the Old West Volcano Revolver, and more modern ones, and I found out that many cities have laws that make it essentially illegal to have these. Some companies will not even ship them to addresses in those cities and areas. This makes zero sense, except for one situation. Think about it: These are NON-WORKING, NON-FIRING things. They are essentially glorified PAPERWEIGHTS. The ONLY area where this makes somewhat sense, is this: There have been evil people who have taken fake guns and intentionally used them to hold people up, and that is evil behavior and those individuals should be stopped. But, what a world it has come to, where they ban such things that cannot harm anyone.



    Here is a replica of the Old West Volcano Revolver, it is pretty cool, has anyone ever seen it?

    http://www.historicreplicaguns.com/v...l-replica.html

  12. #12
    Spyderco Forum Registered User The Deacon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpyderEdgeForever View Post
    What was also sad is this: I was looking at websites and stores that sell fake but realistic guns, such as the Old West Volcano Revolver, and more modern ones, and I found out that many cities have laws that make it essentially illegal to have these. Some companies will not even ship them to addresses in those cities and areas. This makes zero sense, except for one situation. Think about it: These are NON-WORKING, NON-FIRING things. They are essentially glorified PAPERWEIGHTS. The ONLY area where this makes somewhat sense, is this: There have been evil people who have taken fake guns and intentionally used them to hold people up, and that is evil behavior and those individuals should be stopped. But, what a world it has come to, where they ban such things that cannot harm anyone.



    Here is a replica of the Old West Volcano Revolver, it is pretty cool, has anyone ever seen it?

    http://www.historicreplicaguns.com/v...l-replica.html
    That, and the crapstorm that follows when a kid points one at a cop and gets shot (and the triple strength crapstorm if the cop's white and the kid isn't).

    As for that website, yes, the replicas are pretty cool, but I'm old enough to remember when you could get a real 1911 or Luger for less than what some of them are going for.
    Paul
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    Spyderco Forum Registered User JNewell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Deacon View Post
    That, and the crapstorm that follows when a kid points one at a cop and gets shot (and the triple strength crapstorm if the cop's white and the kid isn't).

    As for that website, yes, the replicas are pretty cool, but I'm old enough to remember when you could get a real 1911 or Luger for less than what some of them are going for.
    Like me, I think you're old enough to remember when you could buy any firearm that wasn't an NFA-regulated machine gun through the mail for the price of a first class stamp and a personal check.

  14. #14
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Blerv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Deacon View Post
    That, and the crapstorm that follows when a kid points one at a cop and gets shot (and the triple strength crapstorm if the cop's white and the kid isn't).

    As for that website, yes, the replicas are pretty cool, but I'm old enough to remember when you could get a real 1911 or Luger for less than what some of them are going for.
    Yea. Kids have been killed before for toy guns that look a bit too much like real ones. When adrenalin is pumping, any toy looks pretty real it seems.
    Blake

    Listing of Blade-Length Laws by State/County (Not My Website)
    http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USKnife.pdf

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    Spyderco Forum Registered User SolidState's Avatar
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    At this point, I must thank the Deacon for the term "Triple strength crap storm." Thank you Deacon!
    "Nothing is so fatal to the progress of the human mind as to suppose that our views of science are ultimate; that there are no mysteries in nature; that our triumphs are complete, and that there are no new worlds to conquer."
    Sir Humphry Davy

  16. #16
    Spyderco Forum Registered User SpyderEdgeForever's Avatar
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    Regarding the way things used to be, I once had the blessing of going to a flea market and find a box of 1940s-1950s outdoor sporting and hunting magazines. I remember ads for things like Semi Automatic and I think even automatic Lugers and revolvers and stuff you could buy right through the mail, as well as knives and daggers both imported and American-made, for like prices between 1-10 dollars. And I am sure the steel was forged and/or made very high quality.


  17. #17
    Spyderco Forum Registered User JNewell's Avatar
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    Just to inject a note of reality on the way things used to be, I personally have no desire to go back to the time before modern antibiotics or anesthesia - and that isn't going back all that far.

  18. #18
    Spyderco Forum Registered User SpyderEdgeForever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JNewell View Post
    Just to inject a note of reality on the way things used to be, I personally have no desire to go back to the time before modern antibiotics or anesthesia - and that isn't going back all that far.
    Agree =)

    Also, where would we be without VG-10, H1, S30V and FRN?

  19. #19
    Spyderco Forum Registered User JNewell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpyderEdgeForever View Post
    Agree =)

    Also, where would we be without VG-10, H1, S30V and FRN?
    Ehhhm... We'd be back with ATS-34...or maybe the high carbon 440_ (I think it was 440C?) that Buck used back in the 1970s...I would not feel embarrassed or upset, even though you'll have to pry my S90V and 204P and M390 from my cold, dead hands.

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    Spyderco Forum Registered User Johnny88's Avatar
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    If you get an answer from your local Agency make sure you get it in writing..... " I said that? I didn't say that" GL

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