Joe, sorry, I completely missed your point on the nukes.
Joe, sorry, I completely missed your point on the nukes.
Sequimite, exactly what bad comments were said by me! none!!! I'm just encouraging people to do a little of their own investigating, instead of just believing the news media and following them blindly! Contrary to popular belief, the news media has an agenda, and propaganda is spread to sway public opinion! Have you ever read George Orwell's book"1984"! It is a very dangerous thing to follow the Gov't-sponsored media as the gospel truth! Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see! Look up the atrocities that were committed by the ANC, not only against government forces but against innocent civilians!
Last edited by eric m.; 12-07-2013 at 05:08 PM. Reason: spelling
Most people are pretty complicated...Mandela was no exception. Judge not... ?
To help you all out, look up African National Congress on Wikipedia and more specifically the"Umkhonto we Sizwe"! There are people today who believe in blowing themselves and other innocent people up to justify their cause! Are we going to not hold them accountable for killing innocent people because they feel their cause was justified? This is a very scary conclusion!
Go back and reread the thread again, setting aside emotionalism!
People once condemned as terrorists for killing innocent people are now being declared freedom fighters and peacemakers! Yasser Arafat, the Muslim Brotherhood, the PLO, and in a few more years, Hezbollah, AL Fatah, and a hundred other factions! And just wait for a GROUP of people in this country, who see themselves as downtrodden and oppressed, use any means necessary to get retribution for past/present inequalities!
It wasn't until 2008 that Mandella and the ANC were taken off the terrorist watch list. It ( and he) were considered terrorists by the US government back when I was in the Army up until not long ago in fact. There were without question terrorist elements in the ANC though Mandella was a Politician during the time I was reading the news.What he did in his younger days before prison was before my time and I can make no judgements about that. I recall when he was released from prison. For him to go from prison to leader of his country was pretty amazing to me. That didn't stop our government ( presidents from both parties ) from labeling him a terrorist and keeping him on the list long after he should have been removed as leader of the government of his country. Him being on that list meant special permission was required for him to come into the US to address the UN. Pretty embarrassing if you ask me. Winnie Mandella? She deserved it IMO, and then some.
"A Mastiff is to a dog what a Lion is to a housecat. He stands alone and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race" Cynographia Britannic 1800
"Unless you're the lead dog the view is pretty much gonna stay the same!"
Just the facts Ma'am, just the FACTS!!!
There is no denying the facts eric. People are saying yes, but he then did a lot of good.
There is the fact of forgiveness.
The pastor of the church that I attend was convicted of murder & did twelve years prison for it. He is now not a murderer any more & is married with two children & a very understanding & wise pastor who is respected for his community work by the whole town. His life experiance gives him an understanding & forgiveness that a goody goody two shoes can only pay lip service to, without falling naturaly to live what they proffess.
When folk repent & turn from their old ways & have proven that, then is it not up to us to accept that repentance.
God accepts repentance immediately. It is just us who try to do Gods job for him that are harsh & unforgiving judges who show little or no love.
I absolutely agree with you on that note! I once was lost, but now am found, was blind, but now I see! But what I absolutely cannot stand are totally one-sided media stories giving only the information that they want you to hear and believe! That is called brainwashing! Relying purely on the stirring up of emotions without any facts creates fictional characters that eventually are turned into media "gods", based upon nothing else but spoon-fed information that is pure fantasy! In this country we have 4 major liberal, government sponsored news stations, and 1 major conservative news station! Without hearing both sides of what is trying to be jammed down our throats right now(Obamascare!!!) we would be getting spoon-fed this, without being able to detect the lies and deception! Now is the most important time in our history where we absolutely have to investigate things on our own to get all the facts! This Forum, for example, is a great example of people concerned about the TRUTH about knives they have or are going to buy! They gather information from various sources, from various people, with various opinions and recommendations! Then we make an informed decision on what we are going to do! "In the multitude of counselors there is wisdom"! What if only one voice was allowed to be heard on this forum? One voice allowed to disseminate all information flow on this site! Would you trust it? How would you know when you were being lied to????? "If the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch". I'm all about forgiveness, but it is never based on taking another persons word for it, especially the modern day mainstream news media! They've already tried to cover over or not cover at all, too much information already! Propaganda is propaganda;one-sided information used to control the thought and beliefs of the masses! We are to be "Wise as serpents, Harmless as doves" in all things brother!
Someone bringing up "Obamacare" should be the locking of any thread that doesn't involve healthcare.
I think if we start talking about defense knives and the opening hole debate this one can go stupid-nuclear.
Blerv, only mentioned as an example buddy! Would you like to control the information posted in this forum? You just proved my point! Thank you.
OK, Eric M, you don't trust the media, and neither should we. Anything else?
Marc (doubter of groupthink since 1984, first read in 1965...)
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Some people here seem to be saying that resisting a government that deprives you of your basic rights is reprehensible. We can only conclude that, if their government were to deprive them of all of their fundamental human, civil and natural rights, they would bow their heads in docile submission and acceptance. They seem to have forgotten, or maybe never learned, that this nation exists only because men and women stood up and stood their ground - and they have forgotten, or never learned, that during the course of those struggles horrible atrocities were committed by or under the command of people who we now revere as heroes and patriots.
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In other words what you are all saying is ,"The End Justifies The Means!" If you have to lie, cheat, steal, and murder innocent people to achieve your desired goal then so-be-it!? You are following in the footsteps of the greatest mass-murderers in human history-governments and organized state religions! You will not be justified before the God of the Bible! You have to follow another and your latter end will be horrible, to say the least!
There are good and bad qualities in all of us. The duality of life. I admit some of my views as a younger man have changed and I am not proud of having those views. What happens is we grow and learn (hopefully). If you can set aside the bad you have done and make amends somehow, I think that is the best you can do as a person.
Mandela was considered a criminal (Aparthied government in SA) and a terrorist (US amongst others), if you were in his shoes would you have picked up arms (literally or figuratively)? Labels are a very simple solution to a very complex problem. What lengths would you go to to protect your families lives?
It is the sum of the man (or woman) take the good and the bad and weigh them against each other, which way does the scale tip?
Don't forget that Castro, Arafat and others supported the anti-Aparthied groups while the US and Canada sat on the sidelines. When the tributes happen the maggot politicians are the first in line.