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Thread: CALLING ALL "SALT" LOVERS! Ideas for a new "salt" knife.

  1. #61
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Donut's Avatar
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    First ever Reverse S combo edge?

    Little Matriarch blade in a Salt 1 handle? Serrations on the belly and plain edge on the hawkbill portion?

    What ever happened to the Captain Salt idea? (I don't think there ever was one! )
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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blerv View Post
    To make a Stretch h1 all supporting hardware would have to be rustproof, lockbar, liners, screws, a different clip, etc. additionally it would have to be hollow or high-hollow ground. H1 is more expensive than VG10. Look at the Pacific Salt and Endura4. They are very similar in msrp while not similar at all in complexity.

    I'd rather see a new Salt than a rehashed model. If we went that route (sprint) a Salt Jess Horn Lightweight would be my ideal. Linerless, hollow ground, thin tip, and more of a gents knife than anything else in the Salt line. The clip would have to change material or design though.
    Gentlemen don't carry salts! . Hehehe

    I agree that I would rather see a new salt than a rehashed model, but I'll take what I can get. I'm also glad to hear some more voices speaking up for something with a thinner tip.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by araneae View Post
    Well, if you look at direct comparisons like the Salt Ladybug vs regular you have about a 15% increase on the Salt knife or about $10 for that knife. To do a linered knife, you would be looking at a much greater amount of rust proof material for the liners, more screws than an unlined knife, plus you add a Titanium clip.

    So right off the bat if you just add the minimal 15% for H1 steel you are looking at a $105 street price for a Stretch- and that's not even considering adding rust proof liners, Ti clip, etc... In the end you are probably pushing closer to $150 for a Salt Stretch, I can't see that being a popular model.
    Debbie Downer. I think you are painting an overly dreary picture, but I'm gonna let this one go until Sal chimes in and gives a little guidance on this particular "feature". Like I said, there are a lot of things that are further up my list than steel liners, but it is a feature I would be willing to pay for in a work knife. But further conjecture on the idea without data is pointless. There very well might be another option for making a tougher salt that I would even prefer to liners.

  4. #64
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Blerv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfingringo View Post
    Debbie Downer. I think you are painting an overly dreary picture, but I'm gonna let this one go until Sal chimes in and gives a little guidance on this particular "feature". Like I said, there are a lot of things that are further up my list than steel liners, but it is a feature I would be willing to pay for in a work knife. But further conjecture on the idea without data is pointless. There very well might be another option for making a tougher salt that I would even prefer to liners.
    His numbers line up though. The Ladybug H1 vs Ladybug3 VG10 is a 15% difference in MSRP and the only difference (even in grind) is the steel used.

    The main reason I feel the Salt knives don't have liners is to keep the price competitive. Most people buy them and use them as tools. I've thrashed on first generation Dragonfly's and I've seen people abuse early Delicas and Enduras more than I can imagine. They are extremely tough and usually the pinned FRN pivot outlasts the blade itself.

    Liners mainly allow a reduction in flex and four-way clip positioning. It's a improvement in sophistication but not necessary for a working tool.
    Blake

  5. #65
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    Sigh, I was going to leave this alone but I can't help myself. Sure, the 15% is a real number! But the only way he could get to that $105 number was if he added 15% to $92. There are a plethora of stretches at reputable dealers for $75-$80. So if we want our numbers to actually line up, his $105 should be $90. Then as if by magic we were at $150 and we had a knife that nobody wanted. Like I said before (and I mean it this time, hehe) I'm going to bow out of this debate because I don't have the data to make a valid argument for or against.

    Whew, all that work and I don't even WANT a stretch salt! I do like the handle though.

  6. #66
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Donut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfingringo View Post
    Gentlemen don't carry salts! . Hehehe
    Maybe we can call the new model the Bath Salt.


    You know, the price difference might not be related to the material cost or how difficult it is to grind at all.

    When the first Salts came out, some people saw them rusting. It was found out that the plant wasn't cleaning the machines (well enough) when they changed from steels that weren't H1... to H1. There ended up being traces of the steel that was capable of rusting on the surface of the Salt knives, and that other steel was rusting.

    The 15% could just be in there to account for the "adjustments" they need to make for the steel.

    I think I see this same effect on my Super Blue laminated Endura. One side of the blade, the 420 is showing patina, and on the other side, the Super Blue is resisting stains. I imagine they grind one side, then flip the knife to the other side.
    -Brian
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  7. #67
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Blerv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfingringo View Post
    Sigh, I was going to leave this alone but I can't help myself. Sure, the 15% is a real number! But the only way he could get to that $105 number was if he added 15% to $92. There are a plethora of stretches at reputable dealers for $75-$80. So if we want our numbers to actually line up, his $105 should be $90. Then as if by magic we were at $150 and we had a knife that nobody wanted. Like I said before (and I mean it this time, hehe) I'm going to bow out of this debate because I don't have the data to make a valid argument for or against.

    Whew, all that work and I don't even WANT a stretch salt! I do like the handle though.
    Don't feel you are being baited . Just discussing the "what-ifs".

    I adore the Stretch but it's definitely an aficionado design and not as accepted by the common market at the current price. Would people understand the differences between it and a Pacific Salt that would cost approximately half as much (or thereabouts)?
    Blake

  8. #68
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Donut's Avatar
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    Maybe you're looking for something like this, made with H1:

    http://www.spyderco.com/forums/showt...der-by-MarcinS
    -Brian
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  9. #69
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Evil D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfingringo View Post
    Gentlemen don't carry salts! . Hehehe

    I agree that I would rather see a new salt than a rehashed model, but I'll take what I can get. I'm also glad to hear some more voices speaking up for something with a thinner tip.
    Are you completely against just grinding the tip of a current Salt thinner/pointier? It's quite simple. You could even use a file if you had nothing else.

    SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
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  10. #70
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Evil D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blerv View Post
    Don't feel you are being baited . Just discussing the "what-ifs".

    I adore the Stretch but it's definitely an aficionado design and not as accepted by the common market at the current price. Would people understand the differences between it and a Pacific Salt that would cost approximately half as much (or thereabouts)?
    I sort of look at Spyderco as an aficionado company. They have the budget line and the Delica/Endura for the masses and the rest are pretty much niche market knives in my eyes. I think the general knife using public sees $100+ knives as ridiculously over priced when their Smith & Wesson Walmart knife cuts just fine for $15.

    SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
    ~David

    Official plea to Sal: Can we PLEASE get a DLC Yojimbo 2? PLEASE!!?

  11. #71
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    I agree. That's what I was thinking in an earlier post when I mentioned that maybe something with a g10 handle would sell better than frn with liners. Let's assume it cost $115 to buy a pacific salt 2 (imaginary knife for this example) in fully lined frn. Nothing looks different to the naked eye, so if it's sitting there next to a a $75 PAC salt that looks exactly the same...yes, it might not be a big seller. My point with g10 is that it's a visible upgrade. So let's say they made a pacific salt 2 or a ps "premium" or "extreme"...whatever...with lined g10 scales. I think they would sell far more of that knife for $135 than they would the lined frn for $110. That's how I would see it anyway. Heck, I maybe even a titanium handled one at a much higher price would sell.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil D View Post
    Are you completely against just grinding the tip of a current Salt thinner/pointier? It's quite simple. You could even use a file if you had nothing else.
    Not at all. I'm actually planning to do that to my pacific salt this week. I'll post pics if I do it.

  13. #73
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Evil D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfingringo View Post
    I agree. That's what I was thinking in an earlier post when I mentioned that maybe something with a g10 handle would sell better than frn with liners. Let's assume it cost $115 to buy a pacific salt 2 (imaginary knife for this example) in fully lined frn. Nothing looks different to the naked eye, so if it's sitting there next to a a $75 PAC salt that looks exactly the same...yes, it might not be a big seller. My point with g10 is that it's a visible upgrade. So let's say they made a pacific salt 2 or a ps "premium" or "extreme"...whatever...with lined g10 scales. I think they would sell far more of that knife for $135 than they would the lined frn for $110. That's how I would see it anyway. Heck, I maybe even a titanium handled one at a much higher price would sell.
    They absolutely would, the problem is that there is no way on Earth you're going to get a fully rust proof H1 linered G10 knife for $135. If they DID, that knife would sell faster than Seki City can make them.

    SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
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    Official plea to Sal: Can we PLEASE get a DLC Yojimbo 2? PLEASE!!?

  14. #74
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    $135 is 30% over the street price of a pm2. You guys must know more about h1 production costs than I do.

    P.S. Knives selling faster than you can make them (like the pm2) sure is a high class problem for a company to have.

  15. #75
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Blerv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil D View Post
    I sort of look at Spyderco as an aficionado company. They have the budget line and the Delica/Endura for the masses and the rest are pretty much niche market knives in my eyes. I think the general knife using public sees $100+ knives as ridiculously over priced when their Smith & Wesson Walmart knife cuts just fine for $15.
    I agree but look at it from the eyes of a forum , we are all a bit snobby. I would love to see what their big sellers are but I'm sure that is very protected information. It's probably no coincidence that the Salt knives are mostly models that have been in the fleet for well over a decade.

    Quote Originally Posted by Surfingringo View Post
    $135 is 30% over the street price of a pm2. You guys must know more about h1 production costs than I do.

    P.S. Knives selling faster than you can make them (like the pm2) sure is a high class problem for a company to have.
    A PM2/Manix2 (as we understand) are made with a slightly thinner profit margin than the Seki knives. The dollar to yen conversion makes building knives in Golden a bit cheaper too.
    Last edited by Blerv; 10-02-2013 at 02:14 PM.
    Blake

  16. #76
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    G10 does not need liners guys...try a Dodo. That stuff is brick****house tough. The liner is a non-issue on a G10 platform IMO.

  17. #77
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Donut's Avatar
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    The Dodo has some, or maybe one, very small liner.
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  18. #78
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Donut's Avatar
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    Hey Gringo, you say you have a serrated knife. The grind on a serrated knife is almost a chisel grind, one side is almost flat, and the other side has a bevel that is sharpened. This almost cuts the angle at the edge in half.

    There have been people in the past who have wanted a chisel ground Spyderco model, one of them being myself.

    Do you think if they took, let's say a pacific, gave it combo edge, and for the plain edge portion, kept the almost chisel grind all the way to the tip. Does that meet all of your requirements? Do you think we also need a flat spine?
    -Brian
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  19. #79
    Spyderco Forum Registered User BDNX's Avatar
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    I'd just like to know when a Manbug Salt is gonna be coming out?
    -Scott

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    - got salt?

    My Spydies: Sharpmaker Tasman Salt Saver Salt Spyderhawk Salt Pacific Salt Black Blade Ladybug Hawkbill Salt Ladybug Salt Dragonfly Salt Salt 1 CF Balance Meerkat Sprint Harpy Squeak Manix 2 Ltwt Pingo Ladybug ZDP-189 Blue UKPK Manbug Tusk

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donut View Post
    Hey Gringo, you say you have a serrated knife. The grind on a serrated knife is almost a chisel grind, one side is almost flat, and the other side has a bevel that is sharpened. This almost cuts the angle at the edge in half.

    There have been people in the past who have wanted a chisel ground Spyderco model, one of them being myself.

    Do you think if they took, let's say a pacific, gave it combo edge, and for the plain edge portion, kept the almost chisel grind all the way to the tip. Does that meet all of your requirements? Do you think we also need a flat spine?
    I don't have any problem with that idea, other than having to modify my sharpening technique a bit. I'm never quite sure what to do with the little pe bit at the end. I sharpen the ground side then but a tiny micro bevel on the backside. It works for now, but Im sure I can get better results. I'd be interested to know what are the benefits of a chisel ground pe?

    Regarding the spine, my vote would be for a flat spine. From a performance standpoint I find a flat spine and fine tip (pm2 is a good example) very useful. It gives me the ability to easily and accurately seperate layers. In my case, I'm thinking of the layers of a fishes flesh and skin. With the tip up I can penetrate the skin and the flat knife spine "tracks" along, cutting the skin while riding the surface of the flesh . Easy to control without digging too deep. Harder to do that job with the pacific salt tip. Obviously, that's a specific task and all salt users aren't fisherman, but I think that is an attribute that makes a flat spine useful across a myriad of cutting chores. I like a flat spine for scraping a cutting board (or any flat surface) clean too.

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