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Thread: I don't get it: automatics "restricted"?

  1. #1
    Spyderco Forum Registered User peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    I don't get it: automatics "restricted"?

    On the Spyderco website, the listings for such knives as the Citadel say that they are "federally restricted."

    Automatics restricted?

    I was not under the impression that automatics were universally (federally) illegal for non-law-enforcement people to own, and that it was something more dependent on your local jurisdiction or state law. What's the story?
    "Within this frame an ocean swells -- behind the smile -- I know it well..."

  2. #2
    Spyderco Forum Registered User
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    it is federally restricted to ship them across state lines.

    "possession" is governed by local laws.

    (my interpretation of the code cited on the page you linked)

  3. #3
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Detdaddy's Avatar
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    Law enforcement may possess automatics, but they can only carry automatics while on duty. I'm not sure on possession for non-LE.. Carrying an auto by non-LE violates federal law, I believe. Each local and state law may have further limitations.
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  4. #4
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Knivesinedc's Avatar
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    some states actually allow auto's to be carried by citizens but the rules are strict
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  5. #5
    Spyderco Forum Registered User peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    I would love it if the federal law could be quoted here.

    Anyway, it's the epitome of stupid to ban a kind of knife just because of the manner in which it's opened. That is not at all one of the issues that can make a knife more lethal.
    "Within this frame an ocean swells -- behind the smile -- I know it well..."

  6. #6
    Spyderco Forum Registered User The Deacon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peacefuljeffrey View Post
    I would love it if the federal law could be quoted here.

    Anyway, it's the epitome of stupid to ban a kind of knife just because of the manner in which it's opened. That is not at all one of the issues that can make a knife more lethal.
    KaliGman's initial post in this thread contains the pertinent portion of the Federal Code, and a darn good explanation of why Spyderco has to market their autos and balisongs the way they do.

    Don't think too many intelligent folks would disagree that the law is one of the prime examples of why attempting to regulate human behavior by controlling "things" is both wrong headed and impossible. Both the Federal law and the many state laws which were enacted around the same time in the mid 50's were a knee jerk reaction to a "problem" of gang violence that was blown out of proportion by the media and seized upon by politicians of both parties eager for an issue which, unlike the threat of nuclear war, they could at claim to have "solved".
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    I feel the need to now ask two questions. 1) what is the difference between "assisted opening" knives and "automatic" knives? Are they the same thing called something else? And 2) what if, say somebody was IN the military and happened to buy one of the, say, citadel models, then was disabled in combat and discharged at 17 yrs instead of staying on and retiring? Is that person, I will call him John, what if John gets caught with his, obtained legally "automatic" knife now?

  8. #8
    Spyderco Forum Registered User xceptnl's Avatar
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    Assisted openers are similar to automatics however you must move part of the blade to initiate the auto movement and therefore circumvent the auto restriction jargin!
    My 's:
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  9. #9
    Spyderco Forum Registered User racer88's Avatar
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    With a CCW license, we (non-LE) can carry auto knives in Florida. :-D

  10. #10
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Blerv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZtanker View Post
    I feel the need to now ask two questions. 1) what is the difference between "assisted opening" knives and "automatic" knives? Are they the same thing called something else? And 2) what if, say somebody was IN the military and happened to buy one of the, say, citadel models, then was disabled in combat and discharged at 17 yrs instead of staying on and retiring? Is that person, I will call him John, what if John gets caught with his, obtained legally "automatic" knife now?
    1.
    assisted = blade action is activated when pressing on part of the blade.
    automatic = blade action is activated when pressing on part of the handle (button)
    double-action automatic = blade action is activated for opening and closing

    2. Your guess is as good as mine. At 17 this person has 1 more year of legal pillows, at 18 most jurisdictions wouldn't treat the person very well. At least for publicly carrying without a justifiable license. It's certainly not worth the risk given the "advantage" they offer.
    Blake

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    http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USKnife.pdf

  11. #11
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Evil D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xceptnl View Post
    Assisted openers are similar to automatics however you must move part of the blade to initiate the auto movement and therefore circumvent the auto restriction jargin!
    And with the exception of the straight out of the handle type automatics (not sure the proper term), I have held true autos and AO's in both hands and can't see any speed difference between the two. If a person is so in love with having an automatic, just check out some of the Kershaws that are readily available almost anywhere and they should be just as happy performance wise.

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  12. #12
    Spyderco Forum Registered User xceptnl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil D View Post
    And with the exception of the straight out of the handle type automatics (not sure the proper term), I have held true autos and AO's in both hands and can't see any speed difference between the two. If a person is so in love with having an automatic, just check out some of the Kershaws that are readily available almost anywhere and they should be just as happy performance wise.
    Not to mention that a quality assisted will likely be close to half (if not more) the price of the automatic. I just sold off my last auto a few weeks ago. They were nice to have and fun to play with (knifesturbate) on occasions, yet one handed opening features make the extra cost for the auto seem like a waste. That being said, I still want a citadel before I stop buying knives.... whenever that day comes.
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  13. #13
    Spyderco Forum Registered User
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    I can pull the YO2 out of my pcoket and get it open as fast or faster than either.
    I know that Evil can too as well as most on here, so I doN:t get the hype with
    the switchblades.
    When I was in school years ago, it was a braggin thing to have one, as if that
    made you tough.

    If I was out and about on the street and someone pulled a switchblade on me,
    I'd just choot em.

  14. #14
    Spyderco Forum Registered User xceptnl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAL View Post
    .. If I was out and about on the street and someone pulled a switchblade on me,
    I'd just choot em.
    That's not a knife, this is a ..... bang bang!
    My 's:
    Native, Manix 2 (BD1,154CM,S30V,M4,XHP,S110V,Cruwear), Delica 4 (White,Red,Brown,Blue,BRG,G-10), Spyderhawk, D'fly (H1,G-10,SB), Police3, Volpe, Military (S30V,XHP,D2,M390,BG42,440V,Cruwear), Superleafs, Forager, D2 Para, Kopas, Kiwis, Caly (JR's,3,3.5), Para2 (XHP,204P), Stretch (SS,FRN's,CF), Rescues, Dyad Jr, Pingos, Southard, AIR, Jess Horns, Forum N5, Lil Matriarch, Barong, Superhawk, Chinook II, ATR, SPY-DK, Captain, Ti UKPK, Mules

    *Landon*

  15. #15
    Spyderco Forum Registered User johnnygomer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xceptnl View Post
    That's not a knife, this is a ..... bang bang!
    I think I've mentioned this before, "Don't bring a knife to a gun fight."

    And yes, similarly to what BAL said, if confronted with an assailant threatening deadly force in an manner I also would pull out my bang bang and just shoot em.

    That's why my EDC includes a Spydie, a Ruger, and a multitool (generally not carried for defensive purposes ).

    As far as the speed goes, yes there is a difference in speed on an AO and an auto. A good auto should really "pop" out when opening (a have handled one or two that popped out so hard that if you didn't have a good grip on the knife it would pop right out of your hand), but we're talking about milliseconds difference so in a tactical situation there really is no accpeciable difference speedwise between a button operated auto and a good AO with a "flipper."

    Autos and balisongs were banned due to a perceived image, much the same way some people are trying to ban "assault-style" rifles, not for any practical. logical. or tactical difference.
    Last edited by johnnygomer; 06-13-2013 at 03:56 PM.

  16. #16
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Evil D's Avatar
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    I still plan to buy a nice quality version of one of these someday, not that I would ever carry it.


    SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
    ~David

    Official plea to Sal: Can we PLEASE get a DLC Yojimbo 2? PLEASE!!?

  17. #17
    Spyderco Forum Registered User johnnygomer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil D View Post
    I still plan to buy a nice quality version of one of these someday, not that I would ever carry it.
    Definitely hold out for a quality model. I'll probably splurge and get one myself someday, not that I would ever carry it.

    I have a knock-off and the action is great, but the blade is cr**.

    If the house bill passes in Texas I may start carrying my Boker Kalashnikov though.

  18. #18
    Spyderco Forum Registered User The Deacon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZtanker View Post
    what if, say somebody was IN the military and happened to buy one of the, say, citadel models, then was disabled in combat and discharged at 17 yrs instead of staying on and retiring? Is that person, I will call him John, what if John gets caught with his, obtained legally "automatic" knife now?
    Depends a lot on where John lives and, to some extent, on who is interpreting the law. At one extreme, you have the informal opinion I was given by someone in the Appeals & Opinions Division of the New York State Attorney General's Office, that the only folks who can legally possess a Citadel or other automatic in New York State are active duty military and police and that even they can only possess knives issued to them by their agencies and only during the course of assignments that require them. At the other extreme, there are states where anyone can legally purchase, own, and carry an automatic. However, as with most knife related laws, in most cases it would depend more on the circumstances under which the knife came to an LEO's attention than on the letter of the written law.
    Paul
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    Dead horses beaten, sacred cows tipped, chimeras hunted when time permits.
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  19. #19
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Evil D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZtanker View Post
    I feel the need to now ask two questions. 1) what is the difference between "assisted opening" knives and "automatic" knives? Are they the same thing called something else? And 2) what if, say somebody was IN the military and happened to buy one of the, say, citadel models, then was disabled in combat and discharged at 17 yrs instead of staying on and retiring? Is that person, I will call him John, what if John gets caught with his, obtained legally "automatic" knife now?
    This is sort of like saying that John had a concealed carry permit 17 years ago, but still carries a concealed handgun now...he bought the gun while he had the permit but still carries the gun now 17 years after having the permit...is it still ok?

    SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
    ~David

    Official plea to Sal: Can we PLEASE get a DLC Yojimbo 2? PLEASE!!?

  20. #20
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Yoko von der Rasierklinge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnygomer View Post
    If the house bill passes in Texas I may start carrying my Boker Kalashnikov though.
    Any news on this? I have some family in Texas that I visit often while on business there, would love to carry automatics with me during my time in Dallas & Houston.

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