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Thread: S110v target Hardness?

  1. #21
    Spyderco Forum Registered User
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    Love learning so much about steels

  2. #22
    Spyderco Forum Registered User WMR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZL1 View Post
    Love learning so much about steels
    If you enjoy information about steel and have an iPhone, I found this in the Off-Topic Forum and really like it:

    http://www.spyderco.com/forums/showt...ne-Steel-chart

  3. #23
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    [QUOTE=WMR;847253]If you enjoy information about steel and have an iPhone, I found this in the Off-Topic Forum and really like it:

    http://www.spyderco.com/forums/showt...ne-Steel-chart[/QUOTE

    Just installed it!
    Thanks...

  4. #24
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Ankerson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Allen View Post
    I really look forward to adding this to my EDC rotation. Have to admit it will be my first in S110V. I love my GB with M4, and I have many ofher fine steels to chose from, but this will be great. Hope it makes it way into a few other models.
    Cheers...
    I have a feeling you will really enjoy using S110V and you will along with others begin to understand what real performance really means.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by WMR View Post
    If you enjoy information about steel and have an iPhone, I found this in the Off-Topic Forum and really like it:

    http://www.spyderco.com/forums/showt...ne-Steel-chart
    appreciate it! thank you!

  6. #26
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Blerv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ankerson View Post
    I have a feeling you will really enjoy using S110V and you will along with others begin to understand what real performance really means.
    I'm curious if this will increase or decrease the sale of Spyderco sharpening equipment.
    Blake

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  7. #27
    Spyderco Forum Registered User The Mastiff's Avatar
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    Blake, I have a Phil Wilson S110V knife at rc 63.5-64 and it doesn't really sharpen and harder than S90V IMO. Of course I'm using diamonds and the edges are thinner than the typical production blade. I suppose changing the bevel or grinding off a lot of steel would make a difference though.

    I wouldn't have a problem recommending a S110V knife that's 3 inches run at rc 62. It seems plenty tough to me in a harder blade with thinner edges. Of course I use it as what it is though, a slicer and cutter. Scraping, pounding, or twisting out of deep cuts would likely cause a bit of damage. Cutting huge quantities of rope didn't cause problems though.

    It's not a fragile steel like a person would think though. I guess it's in the S90V range which is doable in knives with cutting as their main purpose.

    Joe
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  8. #28
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Popsickle's Avatar
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    i have to agree with ankerson. 62-63 would be ideal in a production folder. hopefully Sal will chime in.

  9. #29
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Donut's Avatar
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    Maybe this is off topic, but other companies have pushed the Cryo treatment. I would love to try out a Cryo'd blade from Spyderco. Doesn't have to be something like S110V, it could be something like S35VN or S30V or XHP or BD1 or something. I'm just figuring it would be one of the golden models/steels.

    A while ago on BF, a guy made the comment that he was messing around with liquid nitrogen, dipped his knife in, and after that, the knife performed much better. (This could be a load of BS, but it has me interested.)
    -Brian
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donut View Post
    Maybe this is off topic, but other companies have pushed the Cryo treatment. I would love to try out a Cryo'd blade from Spyderco.
    Deep cooling is simply an extension of the quench required on steels which have a low Mf point. There is little point or benefit on it when the steels are ran through the secondary hardening range, in fact on steels like S110V which have an extremely strong secondary tempering response then the martensite formation is actually stronger with the higher temper than with a quench extension - hence the lack of it with HSS's in general.

    In short, before you would ask for a deep quench you need to find out how the steel is being austenized and tempered to even know if it is of benefit.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ankerson View Post
    I have a feeling you will really enjoy using S110V and you will along with others begin to understand what real performance really means.
    It is because of your testing and reported results, that I have made past purchases in steels such as S90V and 3V and now S110V. It has been great watching and being part of a trend with production makers bringing performance that was reserved for a few custom makers in the past. And while those custom makers work remain on top of course, we have all benefited from your body of work.
    Best....

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ankerson View Post
    .. and the compression strength goes through the roof in that 63 range.
    Jim, hardness is a measure of compression strength, that is how it is measured by compressing the material - that is what the word hardness means and it is what the HRC scale measures.

    As I have explained to you before, and so have many other people, the reason you see differences in how the edge behaves isn't the hardness, it is the microstructure.

    What you are doing is comparing two basketball players :

    -one is 6'10"
    -one is 6'2"

    The first guy wins a round of 21.

    You then conclude it was because of his height and you then go to the coach of your team and ask them to get the guys to wear high heels because they will be taller and therefore better players. When anyone asks, this then is the advice you give, just make the guys taller.

    Now if you want actual facts :

    D2 at 62 HRC has a compression strength in ksi of 319
    D2 at 60 HRC has a compression strength in ksi of 312

    If you drop the hardness way down to 55 you will find that the compression strength is 261, which is what you would expect with a 20% loss in hardness there would be a 20% loss in compression strength as that is what it measures obviously.

    As for the rest of it, what I have said is based on the actual materials data, grounded in basic metallurgy such as the reason for the strong hardening peak in SS is because of the precipitates of Cr which is why it is NEVER recommended to do that with stainless steels.

    If you do want that hardness then you pick an alloy which is made to get it without having to take that loss of corrosion/impact toughness. Again, this is all basic metallurgy.

    Now you could use a knife at 58 RC and find the edge roll dramatically, as many people have pointed out to you, including myself several times, this is NOT because the hardness is 58 HRC as that has a minor effect on the strength. What you are seeing is the effect of microstructure which is caused by :

    -retained austensite
    -non-martensite phases
    -blown grain structure
    -improper soaking

    or any combination of the same.

    This is why you need to ensure proper micro-structure, and why you need to adjust the thermal processing to achieve the properties you want.

  13. #33
    Spyderco Forum Registered User JNewell's Avatar
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    I think we should start a pool for actual as-delivered Rc on this one.

  14. #34
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Ankerson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JNewell View Post
    I think we should start a pool for actual as-delivered Rc on this one.
    I plan on having mine tested before I run it.

  15. #35
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Blerv's Avatar
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    Thanks for the input Joe Really appreciated.

    Thin edges, exotic steels. A great combo .
    Blake

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  16. #36
    Spyderco Forum Registered User JNewell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ankerson View Post
    I plan on having mine tested before I run it.
    Yeah...my point was, we ain't gonna tell Sal anything he don't know and won't do in this thread!

  17. #37
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Ankerson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JNewell View Post
    Yeah...my point was, we ain't gonna tell Sal anything he don't know and won't do in this thread!
    Yeah, exactly.

    So we will have to wait and see.

  18. #38
    Spyderco Forum Registered User MCM's Avatar
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    Hows it going Jim!
    Anything for us today on 10v test's?
    Waiting for a 110v V.S. 10v test!

    Take care

    MCM


    Quote Originally Posted by Ankerson View Post
    One of the most interesting things about S110V at optimal hardness range is that it holds that hair popping edge for a very long time, it's very fine grained.

    It doesn't seem to lose that high level of sharpness as fast as some people would think it would, compared to other steels like M390, XHP, Super Blue, ZDP-189 etc.

    S110V is a completely different animal altogether and is really in a class by itself.

    More S90v & CF please.......

  19. #39
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Ankerson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCM View Post
    Hows it going Jim!
    Anything for us today on 10v test's?
    Waiting for a 110v V.S. 10v test!

    Take care

    MCM

    I have K294 (10V) vs S110V data I will give the overview tomorrow morning.

  20. #40
    Spyderco Forum Registered User MCM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ankerson View Post
    I have K294 (10V) vs S110V data I will give the overview tomorrow morning.
    Sounds good!
    I think I know how its going to turn out, but will hold off for now.

    Thanks again for taking the time in doing this!

    Throw in some K390 just for fun!

    More S90v & CF please.......

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