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Thread: Steel upgrades for byrds?

  1. #21
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Pockets's Avatar
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    Does 440C count as both an upgrade and a budget steel?

  2. #22
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Blerv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pockets View Post
    Does 440C count as both an upgrade and a budget steel?
    Mainly in corrosion resistance. That said, 13.5% chromium is very stainless. There might be a slight toughness/edge retention difference but I truly don't think many would notice this. I sure wouldn't but that doesn't say much.

    I'm all up for Spyderco switching to BD1. It supports Carpenter, is a USA steel (which is great for marketing), and I'm sure helps secure Spyderco's relationship with the foundry since they helped develop the steel as an American similar steel to Ginami-1. If their maker in China doesn't care what they use then it's a win-win-win.

    If people want a Tenacious with DRASTICALLY different properties they should buy a different knife. That way the edge profile, ergonomics, and steel characteristics are a night and day difference (not necessarily improvement). Otherwise it's likely going to be a tasty placebo cocktail.

    Just my guess though. Keeping it real, etc.
    Blake

    Listing of Blade-Length Laws by State/County (Not My Website)
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  3. #23
    Spyderco Forum Registered User rwasham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sal View Post
    Hi Nick,

    Timely question. Perhaps some history?

    When we began working with Carpenter several years ago, I was working with Rick G. (now we're working with Jim M.) Great guys to work with. As we were helping to develop knife steels with Carpenter and testing them in our lab, Rick asked if there was something they could do for us? I asked for and got CTS-BD1. I wanted an American steel with the approximate chemistry of Gingami 1. We had plans to use it in our US plant for the more cost conscious models. We were using more and more expensive exotics and felt that we needed a good American made hard working ingot steel with good corrosion resistance. We also wanted to use an American steel in our China made models. We told them that if they made a good steel and we were using it in our Chinese models, others making knives in CHina would be encouraged to do the same. US exports of steel to China is a good thing and the knife industry gets a very good steel.

    Carpenter invested a ton of time, energy and money to create the steel and Ron L. from Carpenter has been going back and forth to China setting up inventory and teaching makers to use the steel. Eric and I will be meeting with makers in a couple of weeks to begin BD1 useage.

    I've been using a Chinese processed BD1 Mule for the past week in the kitchen, cardboard and carving. 58/59 and performing well. We'll keep you posted.

    sal
    Wow! I would be super stoked to see Byrd Knives in BD1 !
    Getting my on!!!!

  4. #24
    Spyderco Forum Registered User v8r's Avatar
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    The 9cr in the Mule series was a good steel . I have two of those mules that I use quite frequently and they perform well.
    It takes a nasty edge also. Doesn't matter to me what kind of steel they use as long as they have quality control standards up and the heat treat right.
    V8R



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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tally-ho View Post
    9Cr13MoV is stamped / engraved on the tang of the blade, yes, but the cutting edge retention is pretty short, so there is a great probability that the steel that is used is not what it is claimed to be, or if it really is 9Cr13MoV steel, its heat treatment is poorly done.

    The chinese 9Cr18Mov steel’s composition is the closest (but not equal) to 440C, but some Enlan knives rebranded by Böker (for the Böker Magnum line) are described to be 440 steel on Böker's website.
    The 8Cr13MoV knives are badged 440 by Boker. Schrade labels the 9Cr13MoV EL-08 as 440C. I think it's more a case of American onsellers just slapping a "near enough" label on them. The heat treatment might not be what it could be.

    The cutting edge retention of the Enlan and Inron knives I tested are way under the 440C steel of the Böker Plus knives.

    Navy knives are claimed by the manufacturer to be made with 440C steel but Puma which sell some exact same Navy knives rebranded under the Puma-tec line, are described to be 420 steel. Who's right, who's wrong ?
    (N.B.: Puma is a reputable German manufacturer. I tend to trust this manufacturer, prior to any Chinese brand).
    I did read somewhere that Chinese manufacturers go for a relatively soft heat treatment, something to do with prolonging machinery life in subsequent machining. From abuse videos I've seen on YouTube, the Inrons do seem to have made a greater effort though. Odd.

    I'll compare my existing 8Cr knives with the Cara Cara I've ordered when it arrives.

  6. #26
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Donut's Avatar
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    I was thinking about this and wondering: Does China manufacturer any good carbon steel/non stainless steels?
    -Brian
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  7. #27
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Blerv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donut View Post
    I was thinking about this and wondering: Does China manufacturer any good carbon steel/non stainless steels?
    Almost every country has a high carbon equivalent of 1060, 1075, 1095, etc. Also spring steels for axles.

    I wouldn't mind seeing a high carbon coated Tenacious. Maybe people would stop calling 8Cr "semi-stainless". Lol.
    Blake

    Listing of Blade-Length Laws by State/County (Not My Website)
    http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USKnife.pdf

  8. #28
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Donut's Avatar
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    1095 or 1060 sounds really good. I am thinking they would have to be sprints. I haven't seen a Byrd sprint yet, but Tenacious sounds great and would be an awesome candidate for a carbon steel.
    -Brian
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  9. #29
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Blerv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donut View Post
    1095 or 1060 sounds really good. I am thinking they would have to be sprints. I haven't seen a Byrd sprint yet, but Tenacious sounds great and would be an awesome candidate for a carbon steel.
    I'm with you. It should be cheap to produce too.

    1200 piece Tenacious sprint would fly out the doors, imho.
    Blake

    Listing of Blade-Length Laws by State/County (Not My Website)
    http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USKnife.pdf

  10. #30
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Donut's Avatar
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    Apparently you and I are the only ones who think so.
    -Brian
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  11. #31
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Blerv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donut View Post
    Apparently you and I are the only ones who think so.
    Yea, and ESEE but those start at $75 for a fixed blade without a handle.

    1095 would be drastically different than 8Cr13Mov and affordable to boot. I would love to see Spyderco do a blade in this stuff on any basis. A sprint for $30-40? Sign me up.
    Blake

    Listing of Blade-Length Laws by State/County (Not My Website)
    http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USKnife.pdf

  12. #32
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Donut's Avatar
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    I'd be cool with using a Byrd knife or Tenacious for a steel test bed.

    1095 sounds like a good one.

    I'm an ESEE fan, too. They provide me mostly what I'm looking for in fixed blades.
    -Brian
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    Chat with us. Sharpthings - A Blog Site

  13. #33
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Donut's Avatar
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    It's kinda quiet in here.

    D2 would be nice.
    -Brian
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  14. #34
    Spyderco Forum Registered User defenestrate's Avatar
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    I suspect that many harder/tougher steels would hurt the price of the knives quite a bit - but BD1 seems to be a pretty decent steel in my experience (I have it on a UKPK) and a general upgrade on the China steels we've had. I personally had good results with the 3Cr and 8/9Cr steels - easy to get wicked sharp, though admittedly they do not hold nearly as wrong. I still carry byrds regularly and have been happy with them overall. I might not want to take a PE one in the woods for the week without a sharpener, but for regular day-to-day use I think they cut well and the knives I've owned with them offer a great value. BD1 sounds fine to me, and is often, in my opinion, somewhat underrated. China will catch up on steels or work out agreements with folks like Carpenter, and if the steels are available at a reasonable price in knives, I suspect we will see them. In the meantime, I love my byrds and intend to buy more (depending on my income, maybe more than my spydies).
    I don't get mad. I get..Stabby.
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  15. #35
    Spyderco Forum Registered User defenestrate's Avatar
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    Also, I could see 1095 in some knives. It can obviously take a mix of hardnesses and is time-tested. Not terribly corrosion-resistant but with that caveat, I'd be up for trying a byrd or with it.
    I don't get mad. I get..Stabby.
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