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Thread: Steel upgrades for byrds?

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    Spyderco Forum Registered User araneae's Avatar
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    Steel upgrades for byrds?

    I am just curious if there is any chance of seeing steel upgrades on any Byrds in the near future? I have seen some knives in Sandvik steels coming out of China recently and am wondering if there is hope of some Byrds with different steels. 9Cr18, Sandvik or Carpenter steels perhaps?

    I like 8Cr, and I have always said it makes an excellent working steel. But, variety is the spice of life.
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    Spyderco Forum Registered User Blerv's Avatar
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    I thought I heard some CTS steel was making its way over to China for the Tenacious. Not sure on the Byrds but one can hope .
    Blake

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    Spyderco Forum Registered User IG-88's Avatar
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    byrd is a low budget line and I doubt if it will happen. This would make it more expensive and would be competition for the main brand. Also the customers looking for a low budget quality knife will be put of by the higher prices. I think byrd is well positioned and has his share of the market. Higher byrd prices would disrupt this balance. Just my opinion...
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    Quote Originally Posted by IG-88 View Post
    byrd is a low budget line and I doubt if it will happen. This would make it more expensive and would be competition for the main brand. Also the customers looking for a low budget quality knife will be put of by the higher prices. I think byrd is well positioned and has his share of the market. Higher byrd prices would disrupt this balance. Just my opinion...
    I agree. However, if any knife manufacturer were to upgrade the steel in their budget line, Spyderco would be the first to do it.
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    Spyderco Forum Registered User Chris_H's Avatar
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    I recall Sal mentioning that the manufacturer in China was not willing to work with 9Cr18 anymore after the Ti Catbyrds and Mule Team knives. CTS-BD1 is supposed to be used for the kitchen cutlery coming from there so maybe some other models will get to use the steel too?

    I agree that with Byrd being a budget line, the chances of getting premium or exotic steels from other locations/foundries will negatively impact production costs and pricing for the ELU.
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    Spyderco Forum Registered User The Deacon's Avatar
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    It wouldn't make sense to have better steel in the Byrds than in some Spyderco branded knives, at least not to me. I suspect we'll see upgraded steel in the Tenacious family, and possibly even the Spyderco slip joints, before we'll see it in the Byrds.
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    Spyderco Forum Registered User Blerv's Avatar
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    I personally adore 8Cr. It takes a mean edge.
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    Hi Nick,

    Timely question. Perhaps some history?

    When we began working with Carpenter several years ago, I was working with Rick G. (now we're working with Jim M.) Great guys to work with. As we were helping to develop knife steels with Carpenter and testing them in our lab, Rick asked if there was something they could do for us? I asked for and got CTS-BD1. I wanted an American steel with the approximate chemistry of Gingami 1. We had plans to use it in our US plant for the more cost conscious models. We were using more and more expensive exotics and felt that we needed a good American made hard working ingot steel with good corrosion resistance. We also wanted to use an American steel in our China made models. We told them that if they made a good steel and we were using it in our Chinese models, others making knives in CHina would be encouraged to do the same. US exports of steel to China is a good thing and the knife industry gets a very good steel.

    Carpenter invested a ton of time, energy and money to create the steel and Ron L. from Carpenter has been going back and forth to China setting up inventory and teaching makers to use the steel. Eric and I will be meeting with makers in a couple of weeks to begin BD1 useage.

    I've been using a Chinese processed BD1 Mule for the past week in the kitchen, cardboard and carving. 58/59 and performing well. We'll keep you posted.

    sal

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    AWESOME!

    Although I know I will take flack for this... I sure love the stock steel on the Byrds right now. My knowledge of steel types is pretty limited. I guess Im also not that picky.

    Here is what I know. My Byrds (and my Tenacious) will get hair popping sharp using my sharp maker and they will hold the edge through all the work I commonly use them for (granted not very hard use)... Simple backpacking and hiking chores as well as some cardboard cutting...tape... that kind of things...

    I guess what I am saying is that all the steels I have work just great for me. I dont notice too much difference... Im just a simple guy that wants a good product made by a great company that does what its supposed to. Granted my "nicest" Spyderco is a Delica 4 and my UKPK. LOL And I know most of the people here would hardly call that "worthy" or "high end". But dang, those are just about my perfect EDC knives. I love them.... Razor sharp, built well and kind of affordable.

    Now throw in an "economy" working line like the byrds... Im in heaven! Keep up the GREAT work Sal.. and thanks for posting on here! We ALL appreciate that!

  10. #10
    Spyderco Forum Registered User araneae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sal View Post
    Hi Nick,

    Timely question. Perhaps some history?

    When we began working with Carpenter several years ago, I was working with Rick G. (now we're working with Jim M.) Great guys to work with. As we were helping to develop knife steels with Carpenter and testing them in our lab, Rick asked if there was something they could do for us? I asked for and got CTS-BD1. I wanted an American steel with the approximate chemistry of Gingami 1. We had plans to use it in our US plant for the more cost conscious models. We were using more and more expensive exotics and felt that we needed a good American made hard working ingot steel with good corrosion resistance. We also wanted to use an American steel in our China made models. We told them that if they made a good steel and we were using it in our Chinese models, others making knives in CHina would be encouraged to do the same. US exports of steel to China is a good thing and the knife industry gets a very good steel.

    Carpenter invested a ton of time, energy and money to create the steel and Ron L. from Carpenter has been going back and forth to China setting up inventory and teaching makers to use the steel. Eric and I will be meeting with makers in a couple of weeks to begin BD1 useage.

    I've been using a Chinese processed BD1 Mule for the past week in the kitchen, cardboard and carving. 58/59 and performing well. We'll keep you posted.

    sal
    Hi Sal.
    Thanks for that response and the history. Good to hear that is in the works. If Spyderco is using BD1 it will most definitely encourage others to follow. I hope it works out, that will be good news for users and American steel makers. Just look at how many companies are using 8Cr now, its pretty much the standard for Chinese knives and it started in byrds. Might we expect to see the Tenacious value line to switch first or will it be a rolling change across the lines?

    May I ask if you're referring to a Mule as we know them or is this a proto piece of kitchen cutlery? I can't wait to see what turns out with the kitchen knives. I know its a derailment of my own thread, but how are the kitchen sharps coming?
    Thx
    So many knives, so few pockets...
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    Light Modding and Wharnifying when time permits

    Just got: Superblue D'fly

    The "Spirit" of the design does not come through unless used. -Sal

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    Wow! I would absolutely love to see Spyderco go to BD1 in their Chinese knives! Wow, talk about more incentive to buy from Spyderco!
    This would be great to see other companies follow suit if this does actually happen.
    Any idea how this would effect the prices? I'm sure there would be some increases, but as long as they weren't too much that won't keep me from buying!

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    I'd like to see 9Cr13MoV on the byrds. Both Enlan and Inron in China are using it...so I don't know why it isn't possible.
    On the hunt for...

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeathBySnooSnoo View Post
    I'd like to see 9Cr13MoV on the byrds. Both Enlan and Inron in China are using it...so I don't know why it isn't possible.
    9Cr13MoV is stamped / engraved on the tang of the blade, yes, but the cutting edge retention is pretty short, so there is a great probability that the steel that is used is not what it is claimed to be, or if it really is 9Cr13MoV steel, its heat treatment is poorly done.

    The chinese 9Cr18Mov steel’s composition is the closest (but not equal) to 440C, but some Enlan knives rebranded by Böker (for the Böker Magnum line) are described to be 440 steel on Böker's website.
    The cutting edge retention of the Enlan and Inron knives I tested are way under the 440C steel of the Böker Plus knives.

    Navy knives are claimed by the manufacturer to be made with 440C steel but Puma which sell some exact same Navy knives rebranded under the Puma-tec line, are described to be 420 steel. Who's right, who's wrong ?
    (N.B.: Puma is a reputable German manufacturer. I tend to trust this manufacturer, prior to any Chinese brand).


    Now i'm very reluctant to buy knives made in China if there is not a reputable western manufacturer to guarantee Chinese productions quality.
    Last edited by Tally-ho; 11-06-2012 at 02:40 PM.

  14. #14
    Spyderco Forum Registered User araneae's Avatar
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    Seems we lost Sal here
    So many knives, so few pockets...
    -Nick
    Light Modding and Wharnifying when time permits

    Just got: Superblue D'fly

    The "Spirit" of the design does not come through unless used. -Sal

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    Spyderco Forum Registered User ASmitty's Avatar
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    CTS-BD1 is my current favorite cost-effective steel. It has performed extremely well on my FRN UKPK. I love the 8Cr13MoV that has shown up in the Chinese line-up up until now, but I would like to see something a little more corrosion resistant in the budget line-up. I think that CTS-BD1 will be the perfect answer here.
    "A flute with no holes is not a flute. A donut with no hole, is a danish."

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    Been traveling. Home now. Got lots of promises on steels, from BD-1 to damascus. We'll see what we can do.

    sal

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    Spyderco Forum Registered User
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    Welcome home! Great news!

  18. #18
    Spyderco Forum Registered User ASmitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sal View Post
    Been traveling. Home now. Got lots of promises on steels, from BD-1 to damascus. We'll see what we can do.

    sal
    Sal,

    Will moving CTS-BD1 to the China made models include the byrds or will it only be the Spyderco branded value line? Also, is there a timeframe in place on this? I've been eyeing a Resilience for awhile now, and just wondering if it is worth waiting for CTS-BD1.
    "A flute with no holes is not a flute. A donut with no hole, is a danish."

  19. #19
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Blerv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASmitty View Post
    Sal,

    Will moving CTS-BD1 to the China made models include the byrds or will it only be the Spyderco branded value line? Also, is there a timeframe in place on this? I've been eyeing a Resilience for awhile now, and just wondering if it is worth waiting for CTS-BD1.
    I don't think most (if any) would notice in a blind comparison. You could always buy the 8Cr model and use it a while, then if a better one comes out buy that and sell the original second-hand on eBay.

    When all is said you would probably lose like $10.
    Blake

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  20. #20
    Spyderco Forum Registered User ASmitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blerv View Post
    I don't think most (if any) would notice in a blind comparison. You could always buy the 8Cr model and use it a while, then if a better one comes out buy that and sell the original second-hand on eBay.

    When all is said you would probably lose like $10.
    I believe that in most areas of performance, I would not notice any difference. But, I currently own Spyderco knives in both steels and the CTS-BD1 knives require less maintenance to keep them free from corrosion. This is the main reason that I would be willing to wait if the change over is not too far off.
    "A flute with no holes is not a flute. A donut with no hole, is a danish."

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