Extreme angle on a VG-10 blade; better than I expected

[JD Spydo]

Today I really dinged up my main EDC which is a Sprint G-10 handled Ayoob model. I definitely hit some big staples and nails that I didn't know that were there

Needless to say it called for a major reprofiling job which made me get out my most coarse 3M diamond benchstone. I spent almost 20 minutes grinding in the necessary relief and getting all the dings and dents out.

But much to my surprise when I started finishing it on the Spyderco 302 ceramic benchstones it sharpened up in a very wicked fashion I was probably working it at about 12 degrees or maybe slightly a little more narrow. And much to my surprise I left it there and finished my day's work and that blade held that narrow edge much better than I even dreamed that it would.

It has an edge close to that of a straight razor and it's holding it

Has anyone else had that good of luck sharpening VG-10 at such an extreme angle? Is there any other steel that can work well at that angle?

[.357 mag]

I've sharpened my Endura down that low. Only because one side was already when I bought it. I didn't keep it there. I microbeveled after a few weeks. The steel rolled very easy.

[dsmegst]

My better kitchen knives have a 10 degree per side VG-10 edges. But I find that to be too thin for a non-super steel folder. It was too delicate for general use.

[phillipsted]

I took one of my old Delicas down to 25 degrees or so. It had an absolutely wicked edge, but it would roll over if you looked at it funny. I took the same path as .35 and put a nice edge bevel on it and it worked like a charm.

TedP

[Donut]

Unit used to make sharpening videos and I remember him running VG-10 pretty low. He had a zero flat grind on his ZDP Stretch. I can't imagine that crazy of an angle on the stretch would work too well.

Super Blue is supposed to handle low angles nicely and some people have posted about running their M390 Paras at low angles with good success.

[dsmegst]

Super Blue is supposed to handle low angles nicely and some people have posted about running their M390 Paras at low angles with good success.

Mine's close to 20 degrees inclusive and I've had no problems. I've been using it with no extra care and there are no chips or signs of rolling. It's simply amazing.

[Donut]

Mine's close to 20 degrees inclusive and I've had no problems. I've been using it with no extra care and there are no chips or signs of rolling. It's simply amazing.

Which one?

[Evil D]

There's a point where you can sharpen just about any modern steel very very thin and if the rest of the blade profile is thin enough, depending on what you cut you can hold that thin edge pretty well. The problem is that it's very delicate and won't stand up to dings or very hard lateral pressure or it'll chip and roll. It depends a lot on what you cut. You could very well sharpen a FFG Delica down to the point where it has no secondary bevel for the edge and is basically like a scandi grind, and if you only ever cut open your mail with it the edge will hold up fine. The first time you cut up some cardboard with it, it's all over.

A while back there was a big craze about taking ZDP way down. There must have been a thread per day posted about it. Hard steels like that will take an extremely thin edge, because they're so hard, but they'll chip easy if you're not extremely careful. Think about a shaving straight razor...they're some of the thinnest blades you'll ever see at the edge, but they're specifically used for that one purpose. If you took one out to EDC and started cutting up boxes and such, you'd start seeing chipping and rolling no matter what steel it's made of. When you sharpen a straight razor, there's a rule that says you don't ever put your fingers on the edge to test how sharp it is, because just touching that edge can degrade it because it's that thin.

[JD Spydo]

This is actually just an experiment for me to tell you all the truth. But I am still surprised at how well it's held up and I've done some work with it today and it's still hair popping sharp.

I fully intend on going back to a primary and secondary bevel as EVIL D alluded to. I've yet to find any principles out of John Juranitch's great book on Sharpening i.e. "The Razor Edge Book Of Sharpening" that were not just great advice all the way around. To me that sharpening book of his is like the Bible of Sharpening.

And I fully intend on learning more about convex edges as well. But I am impressed with VG-10 for another reason which is why I started this thread. I personally didn't think it would hold up at all but it really surprised me. I'm wondering if the design and blade geometry of the Ayoob model might factor in on this edge being so surprisingly durable?

To me VG-10 for what I call a standard use steel for the most part. For years I've liked it better than S30V, ATS-34, ATS-55, AUS-8 and GIN-1 or just about any other standard steel that Spyderco has used. And I've carried/EDCed many Spyders that had those great blade steels and still use some of them. And I'm a fan of Crucibles steel too but I still like VG-10 better than many of theirs.

I did give it a very good stropping yesterday and today as well. And I"ve avoided cutting stuff like cardboard. I think it's going to take one powerhouse steel to ever take VG-10's place in the Japan made Spyders.

[Simple Man]

I have had my G-10 E4 at something less than 15 or so deg. for years now, and it does fine. Reacts to stropping very well.

[dsmegst]

Which one?

Sorry, that wasn't too clear. I was referring to the Super Blue Caly 3.5.

[JD Spydo]

Well it's been almost a week now since I put that radical narrow degree edge on my VG-10 Ayoob model and it's still holding it well and performing beautifully. I have stropped it a couple of times and hit it on the ultra-fine stones once and it seems to be in great working condition. I'm still surprised that it works as well as it has done with that narrow degree of edge.

I'm beginning to believe that VG-10 may be the most overall dependable blade steel going in many respects.

[Splice]

It's my favorite steel. Sharpens nicely, holds a very good edge

[JD Spydo]

It's my favorite steel. Sharpens nicely, holds a very good edge

The more I use VG-10 Spyders as my main EDC blades I'm finding it extremely dependable as far as edge holding, chip resistance, and it holds up to corrosion pretty fair for a stainless with the amount of carbon it has. Also the models that Spyderco uses VG-10 seem to always be models that I personally like a lot.

It also seems to be very durable with full Spyderedge blades.

[Donut]

JD, exactly how does it do with SE?

I have a Lil Matriarch, and I'm going to try to turn it into a user. I cut a little bit of cardboard, then when I checked the edge later, the tip had some small dings in it. It took me a while to sharpen the dings out with a microbevel on the medium rod. Now, a single "40" degree microbevel with a chisel grind only gives me a 20 degree inclusive edge. The serrations should save it from wearing too much, even on more edge abusing cuts.

In summary: You get better cutting from a 20 degree edge, that might take more damage, but the serrations will probably prevent most of the edge from getting worn.

[JD Spydo]

JD, exactly how does it do with SE?

I have a Lil Matriarch, and I'm going to try to turn it into a user. I cut a little bit of cardboard, then when I checked the edge later, the tip had some small dings in it. It took me a while to sharpen the dings out with a microbevel on the medium rod. Now, a single "40" degree microbevel with a chisel grind only gives me a 20 degree inclusive edge. The serrations should save it from wearing too much, even on more edge abusing cuts.

In summary: You get better cutting from a 20 degree edge, that might take more damage, but the serrations will probably prevent most of the edge from getting worn.

The 2 Endura models I had with full Spyderedges with VG-10 were truly like small chainsaws. They would bite through just about any rough or fibrous material with very little effort. I do think that Spyderedges with Crucible's older 440V (S60V) were the most durable SE Spyders I've ever used but the VG-10 full Spyderedges are a very close second. I'm really anxious to try out M-4, D-2 and H-1 against my VG-10 SE Endura.

[Blerv]

I really live vg10 too JD. It would be fun to have a few more SE knives. Even as a sprint.

[dbcad]

VG-10 is a very nice blade material. The modified MT-07 has had a sub 30degree edge for quite a while now, Ive only seen a couple of small rolls

[Orion's Belt]

I have my FFG Delica at 10 degrees per side. I have noticed some rolling of the edge but no chipping. I'm using a micro-bevel now to alleviate some of the edge damage.

[JD Spydo]

I have my FFG Delica at 10 degrees per side. I have noticed some rolling of the edge but no chipping. I'm using a micro-bevel now to alleviate some of the edge damage.

I'm still maintaining that super narrow edge on my C-60 and like yourself ORB I haven't seen any chipping at all and I've put it through some pretty mean abuse in the past 3 days especially. Again I was amazed that it didn't go dull quickly but it still is holding a hair shaving edge and all I'm doing is giving it some touch up on my DOUBLESTUFF stone and doing some periodic stropping>> nothing different than what I do routinely.