Spyderco prices are pushing me right out of my hobby.

[The Deacon]

The issue with FRN is mold cost. Last I heard they ran over $40K, and that was some time ago. I'd be surprised if inflation hasn't pushed the price even higher. So, unless an FRN version already exists, tooling up for one is only cost effective if volume sales can be reasonably expected. That's the main reason why the number of FRN handled collaboration models Spyderco has offered over the years can be counted on one hand and why a few in-house designs only came out in FRN after a version in something else allowed Spyderco to gauge the market.

[Donut]

FRN is a very nice material for scales, especially when lined. A partially lined Delica has stability to rival a fully lined Manix 2, IMO. You can take $20 off the cost of any G-10 model and give me some lined FRN and I'll go for it.

I was always thinking it would be nice if they could make a sheet of generic textured FRN (maybe like the Squeak's texture), then cut and round the corners to the shape of a specific model. That way we get the advantages of both.

Maybe we should lean towards Ed and Eric's idea that you shouldn't need to have jimping or texturing for grip as long as you design the handle properly... Then we can just use smooth scales.

[The Deacon]

For the home craftsman FRN is remarkably easy to work with. Sandpaper, an old fashioned "eggbeater" hand drill, and a fine toothed saw are about all you need to cut and shape it. But, from what I understand, it would be a bloody nuisance to shape in a production environment where speed is important. I know that shaping it creates a lot of friction, which generates heat, and it doesn't take a whole lot of heat to turns the FRN that's being shaped into a soft, gummy mess. Think that's why even peices that look like they could be machined are molded.

[Donut]

Ah, I figured it would be something like that.

[Pockets]

Wait, so then why are G10 and micarta readily available from knife-making supply shops, but FRN isn't? I really like my two FRN Spydies, and I think it would be great to be able to make my own handles out of it.

[Joshua J.]

I'm open to suggestions?

sal

I personally am not horribly opposed to using aluminum if it's cheaper than G-10. It seems to be used often enough by other companies (at all price ranges) that it could work on some models.

While we're at it, if high hardness low carbide steel types actually are supreme performers in EDC type use, that would be another good way to put high end performance in a knife while saving on production costs.

So, an aluminum handle, Rc 64, 12C27 Yojimbo 2 would come out how much cheaper?

[RIOT]

after reading this thread, i have kinda changed my thoughts on Spydercos high prices.

id rather have a high priced Spyderco than having a cheap priced/made alternative.

most great things start out cheap priced and go up with more demand later, its the product prices that go down you have to watch out for.

[David Lowry]

after reading this thread, i have kinda changed my thoughts on Spydercos high prices.

id rather have a high priced Spyderco than having a cheap priced/made alternative.

most great things start out cheap priced and go up with more demand later, its the product prices that go down you have to watch out for.

RIOT, I'm sorta starting to feel the same way. I'm not so worried or "frustrated" any more about Spyderco pricing. This thread, and 11 pages of reading different views and opinions has made me realize that they are doing pretty damn good already. Granted, some of the stuff I think is unneeded, but that's a given. Can't always please everyone.

[BAL]

Different strokes for different folks and at different times for different reasons.
Spyderco has an awesome lineup of knives for all people at all prices made out
of a wide variety of choices.

That's what makes Spyderco a great product, Sal and Eric are great guys with
a great business sense and the staff has customer satisfaction as job one. That's
why we are all fans and devote so much of our time here and money on the product.

Some of the newer products might seem like they are on the high end, but they are
high end designs made with high end products and those are the ones that many desire.
Many people already have the cheaper priced ones, because we can afford them without
destroying the back account.

The Tuff, Szabo Folder, Lionspy, Caly 3.5 CF etc are desireable beacuse of what they are,
top quality and top quality has a price. Many of us just like the best or a change and money
only goes so far.

[xceptnl]

^^^^^ Couldn't have said it better! ^^^^^
+1

[JNewell]

RIOT, I'm sorta starting to feel the same way. I'm not so worried or "frustrated" any more about Spyderco pricing. This thread, and 11 pages of reading different views and opinions has made me realize that they are doing pretty damn good already. Granted, some of the stuff I think is unneeded, but that's a given. Can't always please everyone.

With one category as an exception, this ^^^ is my view. The partial exception is some of the collaborations. Some - and I guess I won't name names - seem surprisingly high. Others, and the one that leaps to mind is the Gayle Bradly folder, seem like a huge bargain. The in-house knives all seem at least reasonable, and some (P2, M2) are actually bargains.

[FroOchie]

With one category as an exception, this ^^^ is my view. The partial exception is some of the collaborations. Some - and I guess I won't name names - seem surprisingly high. Others, and the one that leaps to mind is the Gayle Bradly folder, seem like a huge bargain. The in-house knives all seem at least reasonable, and some (P2, M2) are actually bargains.

Those knives are a different animal all together though and I'm sure to a greater degree we are buying the name. For instance the Vallotton. Butch Vallotton's cheapest knives make Spyderco's highest end look more affordable than a giant gumball in a foodstore quarter eating dispenser. So for Spyderco to use his name on a model designed in his light I'm sure a more expensive price point was predetermined for the preservation of his own brand.

[The Deacon]

Those knives are a different animal all together though and I'm sure to a greater degree we are buying the name. For instance the Vallotton. Butch Vallotton's cheapest knives make Spyderco's highest end look more affordable than a giant gumball in a foodstore quarter eating dispenser. So for Spyderco to use his name on a model designed in his light I'm sure a more expensive price point was predetermined for the preservation of his own brand.

OTOH, the Vallotton and the Sage IV are produced by the same maker in Taichung, use the same blade steel, and carry identical price tags. Granted, there are differences, but they seem to balance fairly well. The Sage's lock is probably more complex and wood may be a bit more expensive than G-10, but there's more steel in the Valloton's blade and its sub-hilt handle is more complex, so I'm not sure Mr. Vallotton's commission is a major factor in its pricing.

[Donut]

I'm happy that there is such a wild swing in styles from all the new knives, there are some I definitely want and there are some I definitely don't want. It makes it cheaper for me to only buy the 2 or 3 that I want.

[yowzer]

I'm in a state too where almost all the knifes I want that I don't already have are out of what I'm able to pay. It sucks. I just hope they don't get discontinued before I can afford them again... in the mean time, I just keep reminding myself that I already own several lifetime's worth of knives as it is and don't really need more... someday I'll believe it.

[BAL]

I'm in a state too where almost all the knifes I want that I don't already have are out of what I'm able to pay. It sucks. I just hope they don't get discontinued before I can afford them again... in the mean time, I just keep reminding myself that I already own several lifetime's worth of knives as it is and don't really need more... someday I'll believe it.

It's funny about saying that you own a lifetime of knives already. I have a pretty good stash
of knives and the wife knows about them when I get them. However, I don't have them sitting
all in one place where that are easliy seen and counted, so you kind of loose track of exactly
how many I have.

One day when my body gives out, the wife and boy will will return from the funeral and start going
thru my stuff and think " what in the hell was he ever going to do with all of these knives, I didn't
know that he had that many."
And still, I keep wanting more and buying more. A few more lifetimes worth don't hurt nothing, does it?

[kbuzbee]

However, I don't have them sitting all in one place where that are easliy seen and counted, so you kind of loose track of exactly how many I have.

One day when my body gives out, the wife and boy will will return from the funeral and start going
thru my stuff and think " what in the hell was he ever going to do with all of these knives, I didn't
know that he had that many."
And still, I keep wanting more and buying more. A few more lifetimes worth don't hurt nothing, does it?

I've had the very same thought!

Ken

[MachSchnell]

I agree with all of comments, however, there is a bit of apples to oranges. You are considering
that a knife collector will keep that knife is NIB condition to maintain the value. However, the
other hobbies that you list you are considering USING them. If you use your knife then the
value drops.

Thre is a difference between a collection and a hobby. You could buy a fishing rod to use or to
collect where you don; use it and hold on to, to resale or put it out and flick it every once in while.
You might but golf clubs, RC cars etc and not use them, thus keeping the value (technology
advancement excluded though), this would be what I would consider a collection, not a hobby.

Trust me, I am not disagreeing with you. I am very much the same. I will never resale a knife,
but I know that it will always remain in a certain top condition (unless abused as you stated).
I never mind "investing" in a tool, because I can get work out of it an it will last a long time
if I care for it. The other items that you have mentioned won't. And seriosly, who buys those
things just to look at. (Maybe some do, heck I don't know)

I think that part of the topic of the thread is that the collecting \ hobby is getting more expensive
as is everythign else, and the people salary's buying them, don't seem to be rising as much.
Eventually something will give and that means people won't be buying as much or as many, but
bottom line, the money flow could see a decline. It has in my case.

"Tis apples to oj's, but since the thread title was relevant to hobbies I thought it would bring in all other hobbies as well.

But I think that the price increase per knife actually saves me money in the long run, I only have been buying utility style models that I will definitely use and not buying ones that merely look appealing/nifty that won't see regular use.

[FroOchie]

OTOH, the Vallotton and the Sage IV are produced by the same maker in Taichung, use the same blade steel, and carry identical price tags. Granted, there are differences, but they seem to balance fairly well. The Sage's lock is probably more complex and wood may be a bit more expensive than G-10, but there's more steel in the Valloton's blade and its sub-hilt handle is more complex, so I'm not sure Mr. Vallotton's commission is a major factor in its pricing.

But is there anything paid to whoever controls Al Mar's name for the Sage 4?

[The Deacon]

But is there anything paid to whoever controls Al Mar's name for the Sage 4?

Probably not. He did not design the knife and the patent on the midlock, if one ever existed, would have expired long ago. I doubt royalties were paid to Michael Walker, Chris Reeve, or Blackie Collins either.