Edge Pro and thicker stones for lower angles

[jackknifeh]

I was just looking at the Congress tools site at moldmaster stones. The normal EP stones are 1/8" thick and set the edge angle on the blade at the angle setting marked on the sharpener. When you thicken the stones the angle gets lower because the bar holding the stone is raised. SO, if I buy 1/4" or even 1/2" thick stones that will lower the angle lower than the EP is set to. The EP Apex will go down to about 10° per side. With thicker stones I'm wondering how low the angle will actually be on the blade. I have a 1/4" medium ceramic stone like the 5" med. Spyderco stone which is 1/8" thick. It works by using the collar to set the angle when switching between it and 1/8" stones, or worn thinner stones. This sounds like a good way to get the stupid low angles some people strive for. We can already get lower angles by raising the spine on the blade when it is sitting on the EP. If we raise the spine and use thicker stones pretty soon we'll be sharpening the spine.

Four 1/2" thick stones, grits 240-600 grit will cost 25.15 before shipping. Their shipping can be high because stones can make a heavy package. Still, not a bad price for a set of 4 stones that will get lower angles not to mention last no telling how long. Thinking about it though 1/2" thick is real thick. Maybe better off with the 1/4" stones. I'm going to mess with different thicknesses on my EP to see if I can figure out if 1/2" is way too thick or if it's possible before I order. I don't need stones now but when I order some I'm going to consider this. I think they should work. We'll see. I may get some before I "need" them.

What do you guys think? Am I right or is there something wrong with my thinking?

Jack
PS edit: More thinking and I realize I don't really want or need lower angles than I'm getting now. The thicker stones would last longer though.

[Evil D]

Lower angles are always handy for back bevels.

[phillipsted]

I use several different thicknesses of stones, strops, and tapes on my WEPS. The only way I found to get consistency was to buy an angle cube. Then I precisely set the angle for each stone. Takes just a couple of seconds.

TedP

[arjay18]

Your thinking is spot on Jack, I used 1/4" stones from the beginning and has compared them to the stock 1/8" stones. The thicker the stone the lower the angle so having a 1/2" stone would lower the angle even more. I don't need very low angles though since I've never sharpened anything lower than 24 degrees inclusive. I have a TON of spare 1/4" congress stones at home that I could lay two or more on top of each other and take the angle reading with the angle cube for you.

I can echo Phillip's experience that an angle cube can precisely set the angle for each stone which is a must if you want a highly mirrored edge. I've actually stopped using the drill stop collar trick and just set the angle each time I change stones.

[arjay18]

Here are the readings from my angle cube jack. I just stacked 1/4" congress stones since I didn't have anything thicker. Basically you can regrind a knife at around 1" stone, makes me want to try it!

1/8" stock EP stone

1/4" congress stone

1/2" congress stone

3/4" congress stone

1" congress stone

1 1/4" congress stone

1 1/2" congress stone

[jackknifeh]

Your thinking is spot on Jack, I used 1/4" stones from the beginning and has compared them to the stock 1/8" stones. The thicker the stone the lower the angle so having a 1/2" stone would lower the angle even more. I don't need very low angles though since I've never sharpened anything lower than 24 degrees inclusive. I have a TON of spare 1/4" congress stones at home that I could lay two or more on top of each other and take the angle reading with the angle cube for you.

I can echo Phillip's experience that an angle cube can precisely set the angle for each stone which is a must if you want a highly mirrored edge. I've actually stopped using the drill stop collar trick and just set the angle each time I change stones.

If you could set your EP to 15° and let me know what the angle is with a 1/2" stone on a 1/8" blank I'd appreciate it. I'm curious about how much different it is from whatever the EP is set to. I'm going to get a set of 1/4" or 1/2" stones when I get new stones. I don't really need them but you never know when you might want to put a super-low angle on an edge. If that day comes I don't want to have to say "I'll order some thick stones". I'd rather be able to say "I can do that right now". Even if I never need lower angles for a little extra money I'll have stones that will last twice as long (or longer with 1/2" stones).
Nevermind. I just saw your pictures. huh!

Do you ever use the angle cube for anything other than edge angles. That thing looks like it could be useful for other things like carpentry. Tie it to a 4' "straight something" and you have a 48" level. Is there any reason that wouldn't work with the angle cube? I love gadgets like that just never got the angle cube.

Jack

[chuck_roxas45]

That's pretty interesting arj.

[jackknifeh]

Way to go Arj. Just ordered an Angle Cube for under $29 after shipping. Best price I've seen. If you hadn't put those pictures on this money sucking forum I probably wouldn't have gone price shopping. Been looking at that thing for quite a while. From now on I won't need my computer to look at it.

What actually sold me on getting one now was pictures of it being used to set the angle on a circular saw. I think if you "zero" the cube on the saw base then setting the blade should be a snap. Have you ever done this? Does anyone have suggestions for other uses?

Jack

[phillipsted]

Jack, I use the angle cube on my table saw frequently - its great for setting up precise angles (better than the markings on the saw housing, anyway!). It is also good when hanging pictures on the wall. And I used it to level my washer/dryer in the basement after moving them for cleaning... Well worth the investment, IMHO!

TedP

[jackknifeh]

Jack, I use the angle cube on my table saw frequently - its great for setting up precise angles (better than the markings on the saw housing, anyway!). It is also good when hanging pictures on the wall. And I used it to level my washer/dryer in the basement after moving them for cleaning... Well worth the investment, IMHO!

TedP

I don't know why the companies put marks on the saws. Using them to cut angles to make a square with 45° cuts, I end up with a pentagon. Now that I have one ordered I'm looking forward to using it. I used a round level to mark the bar on my EP at every angle instead of just having them every 3 degrees. I knew it wasn't that accurate but at least I had marks I could use to provide consistancy. I'm sure I'll mark the bar again more accurately but still plan to use the cube when changing stones.

Jack
PS edit: I don't have to clean behind my washer and dryer do I? If I do I'm cancelling the angle cube order.

[arjay18]

I haven't used my angle cube for anything else but your ideas sounds plausible. I wish I had this thing when I was overseeing our building's construction, the contractor would have gone crazy if I could measure every angle this accurate. 90 degrees walls and level floors, I wouldn't have settled for less.

Do you need me to measure anything else? Now I want a 1" thick stone!

[jackknifeh]

My new angle cube came in the mail today. I think I'm going to like this thing. Has anyone compared the angle cube readings to the marks on the EP? I did that and the EP marks seem to be a little lower (.3-.4 deg max) than the cube shows. I'm asking to see if I'm using it the same way you guys are. Also, when I drop the angle as low as the EP will go the angle cube reads around 8.8 degrees. Is that close to anyone else's EP? The numbers aren't really that important as long as they are pretty accurate. The biggest concern for me is keeping the same angle when changing stones.

[arjay18]

What stone are you using to check the angle with? remember that different stone thickness will vary the reading. Even a brand new stock ep stones vary in thickness.

[jackknifeh]

What stone are you using to check the angle with? remember that different stone thickness will vary the reading. Even a brand new stock ep stones vary in thickness.

I used a stone/blank that is 1/4" thick. The blanks are 1/8" and a stone is 1/8" thick. So, I think it's ok. When I first got my EP I really did a stupid thing. I used a triangle solid square with angle markings on side C. Not accurate at all. So, I checked the EP marks and emailed Ben asking how accurate are his marks supposed to be? He replied and I think he said they were accurate within .5°. Just to be sure I didn't get a screwed up rod on my EP he sent me a new one. The marks were in the same place as my first one. The problem was me and my inaccurate tool. The square I tried to check accuracy with wasn't even supposed to be that accurate by design. Later, I found the marks to be close to perfect using a round level with a needle. However that isn't near as accurate as the cube. The readings I got with the cube were off by less than .5°. I was just wondering if anyone else had checked the marks before. I don't use a blank/stone when setting the EP and use the collar. I made a spacer that is 1/4" thick. If I want the EP set to 18° I set it by the mark, then use my 1/4" spacer to set the collar (not a stone/blank). Then I set the EP to every stone I use, not just the first one because I know it may not be the perfect thickness after the first use. They should be very close for many uses though. If I set the EP to 18 and get an actual angle of 18.2° I am fine with that. The main issue for me is having it set the same for different stones to reduce the amount of steel removal. How accurate to we need to be really? I mean we are only sharpening knives, not saving mankind. Good thing, sharp knives are easier to get than saving mankind.

Jack

[arjay18]

I didn't bother to check if the marks were accurate since I got an angle cube together with my EP. I didn't see the need to and I'm not as anal as you jack. I just set the angle every time I change stones with the angle cube, it only takes a couple of seconds. The accuracy I get with the angle cube is more than enough for our needs, some might even say it's overkill.