Sharpmaker and ZDP-189

[Bios]

I have another option to go for the paramilitary 2 with custom aero carbon scales (looks sweet) but am going to think this is gonna be to large for an EDC knife.
It's a shame here in the Netherlands there not a lot of stores who sell spyderco knives, so i can see and feel it for myself.

Another question again about the sharpmaker though;

Is it with S30V also possible to sharpen an edge of 30 degrees ?
I also read a lot of people that sharpen their knives with a 30 degrees "back bevel" and finish it off with a 40 degrees "micro bevel".
Man, back bevel and micro bevel, more new stuff i have to learn about ...what are the bennefits sharpening this way ?
And is it recommended to buy some ultra-fine rods for the sharpmaker or will a leather belt do fine ?
About the leahter belt, do you know a place that sell descent strops/ leather belts and ship to the Netherlands ?

[jackknifeh]

I have another option to go for the paramilitary 2 with custom aero carbon scales (looks sweet) but am going to think this is gonna be to large for an EDC knife.
It's a shame here in the Netherlands there not a lot of stores who sell spyderco knives, so i can see and feel it for myself.

Another question again about the sharpmaker though;

Is it with S30V also possible to sharpen an edge of 30 degrees ?
I also read a lot of people that sharpen their knives with a 30 degrees "back bevel" and finish it off with a 40 degrees "micro bevel".
Man, back bevel and micro bevel, more new stuff i have to learn about ...what are the bennefits sharpening this way ?
And is it recommended to buy some ultra-fine rods for the sharpmaker or will a leather belt do fine ?
About the leahter belt, do you know a place that sell descent strops/ leather belts and ship to the Netherlands ?

I believe S30V can perform well when sharpened to a 30° back bevel. I have a knife sharpened at that angle now and am using it. If I don't get any rolling, chipping, or just basic dulling I'll be happy. If I do I'll put a 40° edge (micro) bevel on it. the larger edge bevel strengthen the edge by making it thicker. The lower back bevel keeps the blade thinner. Thinner always cuts better, ALWAYS. But too thin won't hold up to tougher cutting tasks. You have to search for a happy medium for the steel and use of a knife. It's not rocket science but it can seem a little complicated but it's also fun playing with it. It is for me anyway. After a while you get to know what steels and angles you like. Keep in mind, precise edge angles are not completely necessary but does help people who want the best cutting performance they can get. The Sharpmaker is a quality sharpener that can sharpen your knives to the most common and useful angles and not too hard to learn to use.

Jack

[Clip]

Take a look at the Caly3 in ZDP/carbon fiber as well if you want both CF scales and that specific steel. Love the feel of mine.

[Bios]

The caly 3 was also one of the first knives i take a look at, but i don't like the carbon fiber on this one and also the laminated blade isn't mine thinge.

I'm one button away from ordering the following;
* Spyderco Sage 1
* Spyderco Sharpmaker
* Diamond rods for the sharpmaker
* Ultrafine rods for the sharpmaker
* Leather strop is on his way

For me it's like some sort of competition with my dad and granddad, they always swear by their "evil sharp" knives, quess what new kid is coming, haha.

Still some questions about the sharpening proces;

I understand the 30 and 40 degree back bevel and micro bevel, but do you sharpen these 2 bevels with the same stones or do you sharpen the micro bevel just with the fine and ultrafine stones ?
Also i wanne have a mirrored/ polished edge on my knives, is that possible with the ultrafine stones and a strop?
I understand the ultrafine stones are 3 micron, do i need some compound for the strop, and which compound ?
There are compounds of 3, 1 and 0,5 micron ...

[arjay18]

Get an Edge Pro or Wicked Edge, that would surely blow your dad and grandad's knives out of the water.

[Bios]

Get an Edge Pro or Wicked Edge, that would surely blow your dad and grandad's knives out of the water.

I looked at that option too, but that's going to be too expensive for me.

[BAL]

Welcome Bios, the choices never end. Its both good and bad if you know what I mean.
Happy shopping man.

[jackknifeh]

The caly 3 was also one of the first knives i take a look at, but i don't like the carbon fiber on this one and also the laminated blade isn't mine thinge.

I'm one button away from ordering the following;
* Spyderco Sage 1
* Spyderco Sharpmaker
* Diamond rods for the sharpmaker
* Ultrafine rods for the sharpmaker
* Leather strop is on his way

For me it's like some sort of competition with my dad and granddad, they always swear by their "evil sharp" knives, quess what new kid is coming, haha.

Still some questions about the sharpening proces;

I understand the 30 and 40 degree back bevel and micro bevel, but do you sharpen these 2 bevels with the same stones or do you sharpen the micro bevel just with the fine and ultrafine stones ?
Just use the fine and ultra-fine stones on the micro-bevel. That's because you don't want to remove NEARLY as much steel. Just a small micro-bevel will strengthen the edge. Sometimes a micro-bevel is hard to see at first glance. Any time the micro-bevel is easy to see at a glance I use the term edge-bevel because micro means very small. Just my choice of words to be clear on what I mean.

Also i wanne have a mirrored/ polished edge on my knives, is that possible with the ultrafine stones and a strop?
Yes. When going for mirrored bevels the key is to remove the scratch pattern of the previous stone with the one you are using now. Remove the scratch pattern left by the medium stone with the fine stones. Then a strop finishes the process for me. One thing that makes a strop easier for me is they are softer than stones. They will "wrap" around the bevel so the angle you hold the blade has a little "margin of errer". When stropping DO NOT use too much pressure. You can roll the edge creating a burr or just rounding it off taking away sharpness. Since strops are softer they require a little different technique, starting with stroking the edge backwards of course.

I understand the ultrafine stones are 3 micron, do i need some compound for the strop, and which compound ?
There are compounds of 3, 1 and 0,5 micron ...

Some people use a leather strop with no compound. I don't. It's a personal choice. Here is another piece of info you may get very differing opinions on. My opinion is you don't need any strop paste finer than 3 micron, ok maybe 1 micron. .5, .25 micron paste (compound) is really not necessary for folding knives. I think it is overkill that is useless and I love overkill. More is usually better. But, it is very possible that my skills aren't refined enough to get the benefit out of the finer grit compounds (.5 micron and lower). In the past few years my sharpening skill has imporved 10 fold. Most of my detailed learning has come from people on this forum. Then I've used that information as I practice sharpening with different angles, tools (stones, strops, grits, etc.). Right now I'm pretty good but expect my edges to get sharper in the next few months or so. I believe that because when I started using knives with better blade steel I found my stones and skills were inadequate. The "sharp" edge I had and was proud of now I consider to have been somewhat dull. It got the job done but never freaked anyone out. Now my edges raise eyebrows when I let someone use a knife I'm carrying, which I almost never do. I'm getting off subject, sorry. I like diamond paste to use for strops. I have been using coarser grit pastes lately and really like them. Diamond paste of 28 micron, 14 micron, 5 micron then 3 micron is a nice progression IMO. Of course those "grits" are coarser than the fine and UF stones. I'm finding diamond paste strops very useful for finishing an edge. For touch-ups a set of diamond paste strops almost eliminates the need for stones. Although, sometimes I just use the UF stone. There are several ways to get the ultimate edge you are looking for. Like everyone, I'm finding my own preference. Is my preference better than someone else's? No. Just different. Judge by the knife edge obtained. You will find out what you like or prefer. I believe you will surprise your father and grandfather. Of course I don't know their skill level but I bet it's pretty good.

Hope this helps. Sharpening is a simple thing that has a way of sounding complicated.

Jack

[chuck_roxas45]

Hope this helps. Sharpening is a simple thing that has a way of sounding complicated.

Jack

Hehehe. So true Jack. When I just started on my quest for sharpness a few people made it seem very complex and some even made it sound mystical. It's just understanding what you want to do and practice. Tools are even secondary.

[Bios]

Thanks again for your education Jack
With other words, after sharpened the knife with the ultra fine stones you go the the strop with diamond paste of 3 micron, right ?
And this is gonna get you a mirrored finish ?
Will the edge also improve and get a mirror edge after the ultra stones and then the strop without the compound ?
Also, where can i get a good diamond paste of 3 micron (does it matter from which brand) not al to expensive and shipping to the Netherlands ?

[jackknifeh]

Thanks again for your education Jack
With other words, after sharpened the knife with the ultra fine stones you go the the strop with diamond paste of 3 micron, right ?
Yes.

And this is gonna get you a mirrored finish ?
Yes.

Will the edge also improve and get a mirror edge after the ultra stones and then the strop without the compound ?
Yes, but i don't use a strop with no compound. I think most people use compound on strops but I've heard some don't. I can picture a strop with hard leather (horse) and no compound putting a REALLY refined edge on a knife. With no compound at all the amount of steel removal will be so small that it's only possible to refine an edge. Actually, don't even think about a strop without compound. Not for now anyway. My opinion.

Stropping requires a significantly different technique than is needed with stones. It's one of those "same but different" things. Practice, time and experience will be the best teacher of course. I believe the most important thing is being able to picture in your mind a knife edge including the different bevels, burrs, etc. A lot of times you will be making changes to an edge that are almost impossible to see with the naked eye. Very small burrs for example. You can't see them but you can feel them when inspecting and edge or expecially when cutting.

Jack

[Bios]

I have seen some video's of stropping knives (youtube) , that part is clear for me.
But there are so many different kind of compounds and pastes.

[chuck_roxas45]

Use the cheap pastes on ebay first. Then you can tell the difference between good pastes and better pastes.

[jackknifeh]

Use the cheap pastes on ebay first. Then you can tell the difference between good pastes and better pastes.

I think this is a very good idea. For $19 you can buy the amount of paste in 3 different grits that would cost you over $80 if you bought DMT dia-paste. When I first found out about the coarser grit diamond paste (thanks to Chuck) I already had been using DMT products for a few years. They are TOP quality IMO. The cheaper paste on eBay is identified as "Grit # 3.000" 5/3 Micron - Mirror finish" (one example). Notice the 5/3 micron. I assume this means this paste is between 3 and 5 micron. That isn't very precise compared to DMT's pastes of 6, 3, 1 micron. Much more effort put into the higher quality paste I think. However, the 5/3 micron cheap paste will leave you with a mirror finish (to the naked eye). It is VERY nice. I still use the 3 micron DMT paste as a final step just for good measure. Also, I'm still finding out if the cheap paste lasts as long on the leather as the DMT paste. I won't know this for a while because the strops with the DMT paste have been used for a couple of years and the leather with the other pastes is new. After the leather has been treated a few times it may last longer than after just one or two applications of the paste.

I still believe the DMT is better quality but they don't have the coarser grits. At the moment I feel the coarser grit diamond pastes are a godsend in the process toward a mirror finish.

Jack

[chuck_roxas45]

I think this is a very good idea. For $19 you can buy the amount of paste in 3 different grits that would cost you over $80 if you bought DMT dia-paste. When I first found out about the coarser grit diamond paste (thanks to Chuck) I already had been using DMT products for a few years. They are TOP quality IMO. The cheaper paste on eBay is identified as "Grit # 3.000" 5/3 Micron - Mirror finish" (one example). Notice the 5/3 micron. I assume this means this paste is between 3 and 5 micron. That isn't very precise compared to DMT's pastes of 6, 3, 1 micron. Much more effort put into the higher quality paste I think. However, the 5/3 micron cheap paste will leave you with a mirror finish (to the naked eye). It is VERY nice. I still use the 3 micron DMT paste as a final step just for good measure. Also, I'm still finding out if the cheap paste lasts as long on the leather as the DMT paste. I won't know this for a while because the strops with the DMT paste have been used for a couple of years and the leather with the other pastes is new. After the leather has been treated a few times it may last longer than after just one or two applications of the paste.

I still believe the DMT is better quality but they don't have the coarser grits. At the moment I feel the coarser grit diamond pastes are a godsend in the process toward a mirror finish.

Jack

Are you still using your 28u paste after the flex Jack?

[jackknifeh]

Are you still using your 28u paste after the flex Jack?

Yes but, I haven't used the flex stones for a while. Since I have the coarser pastes I think I'm getting into a Moldmaster stones, 28 micron paste then 14 then 5 micron paste process. I then have a razor sharp, beautiful mirror finish. If I slow down right at the end of the sharpening, the edge will go through phone book paper like the paper is sucking the edge into it. Well, almost. One thing that has always bothered me is random scratches even after the bevel has a beautiful mirror finish. Go to the bathroom mirror and put several random scratches all over the mirror in a parrallel pattern. That is what I hate on a knife edge. Using the moldmasters then diamond pastes I have almost eliminated that problem. To get it COMPLETELY PERFECT I think I just need a little more patience using the next finer grit stone/paste. At the moment I only use the 320 and 400 moldmasters. I had a 600 grit but I don't know where it is. I only used it on the bevel or by pulling it across the edge. The 600 stone would "shave" off when puching the edge on the stone like normal. It's kind of a "soft" stone. But when dragging it across the edge like stropping it really smooths out the bevel. I just have to find it. I'm getting good results without it though.

[chuck_roxas45]

Yes but, I haven't used the flex stones for a while. Since I have the coarser pastes I think I'm getting into a Moldmaster stones, 28 micron paste then 14 then 5 micron paste process. I then have a razor sharp, beautiful mirror finish. If I slow down right at the end of the sharpening, the edge will go through phone book paper like the paper is sucking the edge into it. Well, almost. One thing that has always bothered me is random scratches even after the bevel has a beautiful mirror finish. Go to the bathroom mirror and put several random scratches all over the mirror in a parrallel pattern. That is what I hate on a knife edge. Using the moldmasters then diamond pastes I have almost eliminated that problem. To get it COMPLETELY PERFECT I think I just need a little more patience using the next finer grit stone/paste. At the moment I only use the 320 and 400 moldmasters. I had a 600 grit but I don't know where it is. I only used it on the bevel or by pulling it across the edge. The 600 stone would "shave" off when puching the edge on the stone like normal. It's kind of a "soft" stone. But when dragging it across the edge like stropping it really smooths out the bevel. I just have to find it. I'm getting good results without it though.

I had that experience using the 600 grit wet. I find that I get a good result and less wear on the 600 grit if I use it dry.

[jackknifeh]

I had that experience using the 600 grit wet. I find that I get a good result and less wear on the 600 grit if I use it dry.

I'll try that (when I find it ). I think I'll look for it now. It has to be somewhere in my sharpening stuff.

Jack

[jackknifeh]

I'll try that (when I find it ). I think I'll look for it now. It has to be somewhere in my sharpening stuff.

Jack

Found it. I remember. I needed a blank for another stone and took off the 600 moldmaster. I'll have to wait to get a blank. I think they have aluminum bars at Lowe's I can use to cut my own. I'll get some of that. I think it's a lot cheaper than buying them one at a time from Ben at EP.

Jack

[Bios]

I found a few products.
One of them is 2.5 micron (cheap ebay) and is says oil based, is that a good thing oil based ?
Also you read a lot that diamond compound normally is supplied to maple or mdf, nothing about leather strop ... ?