SharpMaker & Chef's Knife

[JohnTaylor]

I would like to upgrade my chef's knife at home to something that will better hold an edge. At the same time I would like to use my SharpMaker to keep it sharp. Unless I am missing something Spyderco does not make kitchen cutlery so I am looking for a recommendation that will run me less than, let's say $110... if this is realistic. Perhaps something in the 8" range...

[Evil D]

I can't help with brands but i've been wanting a VG10 kitchen knife for a while now.

[dj moonbat]

I recently received a Miyabi chef's knife as a gift. It is made of VG-10 layered with lesser steels in a faux-Damascus pattern. They make two types: one more Western in style, the other more traditional Japanese.

Last I saw, the more Japanese (bolster-less) style knife could be had for $99. Also, Shun cutlery is very nice, and if you keep your eyes peeled you can find certain 8" Shun knives for $99.

There are actually a LOT of Japanese makers out there with faux-Damascus VG-10 chef's knives. I personally think that's a fantastic steel to make kitchen knives from, and would recommend that you use Teh Google to look around for the one you like best. The Miyabi is A-OK in my book, but really, it's all about the steel, and that layered VG-10 is grrrrreat for kitchen use.

[NoFair]

These are very good (have the 230mm one):

http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/ProJSeries.html


The Gekko series from the same place is also very good:

Found here:
http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/SPECIALS.html

Very slightly over your budget, but the slightly shorter ones are within your budget. Both work fine with a sharpmaker

[bh49]

Few years ago I bought Kanetsune 8" Gyuto KC102. VG10 core, 33 layers Damascus. I am still amazed by this knife. Sharpness out of the box on the same level or better than Spydercos, considering 2 mm stock thickness it slices like a laser. The only regret is that I didn't buy 9" instead. You need to be careful with Japanese Gyutos not to hit bones, it will bent the edge right away. (My wife checked this on the very first day).
I am touching-up my Kanetsune on sharpmaker and it still doing good, but probably soon will be due to real sharpening. Planing to send it out
Quite affordable knives are Tojiro Dp. I never used them, but read many good comments.
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/tojiro-dp-f-8081.html
Check also this site, it is like a candy store
http://japanesechefsknife.com/

[Creepo]

First of all the Sharpmaker will be good for sharpening your kitchen knives.
I'm currently using a Shun Wasabi set and I love it, the steel is very easy to sharpen and taes a ridiculous edge and holds it rather long, probably not as good as VG10, maybe somewhat close to AUS8? But at 20-30$ IMO it's the best bang for the buck if you want a good steel. They are discontinued but KnifeWorks and Amazon still carry some, 8" chef's knife included.
Obligatory knifepron:


Since you are looking for a knife that holds a better edge, I say definitely look into japanese kitchen knives, most western kitchen knives tend to have softer steels. Also are you looking for a stainless or carbon steel?
But you know best what you like, so instead of throwing a bunch of suggestions in the air, I will just link some good online stores with good selections:
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/
http://japanesechefsknife.com/
http://www.kitchenknives.com/ (Knifecenter's kitchen knife section.)
http://www.knifeworks.com/kitchencutlery-1.aspx

[maa14]

Yes I would look at some of the Shun classic line as they are great quality and are VG-10 steel

[kennethsime]

Shun is very nice. They generally use VG-10 (on some they use a nicer steel), layered between 32 layers of folded damascus stainless. They harden into the low-mid 60s, and sharpen their knives to a 15 angle (per-side). You probably want the Shun Classic 8" Chef's Knife. However, even without the Granton Edge, it'll run you about $169.00 from most stores/amazon. Keep a look out and you may be able to catch some sales. I would also suggest looking into the 7" Santoku, as they run a bit cheaper (more like $129.00).

Second to that, I'd recommend Henckels. They use a high-carbon stainless which holds its edge quite well (although not as well as the VG-10), and is a little softer/more forgiving than the Shun. They have some Japanese-inspired lines (the Twin Profection being my favorite) made in Germany, and the full-on Japanese lines which are nicer than the Shun Classics (the Twin Cermax line is some seriously sexy stuff). I've used the Twin Profection 7" Santoku and 8" Chef's Knife, both are wonderful. Check this out.

Even with softer german steels as used by Henckels, Wusthof, and Messermeister, at our shop we typically recommend most people only sharpen their knives about once a year, as long as they maintain them with a steel.

[Captron]

I would like to upgrade my chef's knife at home to something that will better hold an edge. At the same time I would like to use my SharpMaker to keep it sharp. Unless I am missing something Spyderco does not make kitchen cutlery so I am looking for a recommendation that will run me less than, let's say $110... if this is realistic. Perhaps something in the 8" range...

I paid somewhere around $60.00 for a Mac eight inh chefs knife. Have had Henkles and presently have a Cutco chefs. My go to is the Mac. Can slice a ripe tomato potato thin slices. Also hace the Mac paring knife. Easy to sharpen on the Sharpmaker at 30 degree setting.

[Cliff Stamp]

I would like to upgrade my chef's knife at home to something that will better hold an edge.

What are you using and how often (and how) are you sharpening it?

[JohnTaylor]

Oh, please don't laugh. I am using a block set of Oster's that are about 6 years old. Both the drop point and curved 8" chef's knives have what looks to be rust under the microscope (40X) about an inch from the tips. Okay, now avert your eyes... Before I became enlightened to Spyderco knives and the Sharpmaker I was sharpening them with one of those cheap V shaped sharpeners. YIKES! Boy, did it ever mess up the edges! Anyhow, re-profiled both blades and sharpened the best I could with the Sharpmaker. They are much sharper. However, they get dull very easy. My wife uses the curved blade nearly every day and I must sharpen resharpen at least once per week. One of the concerns I have is that she occassionally will cut some frozen food using a significant amount of force. (some might call it ice sculpting) I might keep the Osters for her heavier duty slicing and reserve the new knife for regular duty cutting.

[Cliff Stamp]

My wife uses the curved blade nearly every day and I must sharpen resharpen at least once per week. One of the concerns I have is that she occassionally will cut some frozen food using a significant amount of force. (some might call it ice sculpting) I might keep the Osters for her heavier duty slicing and reserve the new knife for regular duty cutting.

Before you invest in a new knife there is likely some issues with the sharpening if they are going blunt that fast. I would suspect that the edge is rolled and it is being aligned and not actually sharpened on the Sharpmaker as the knives are behaving just like they were steeled.

The next time you have to sharpen them, make 1-2 light passes directly into the medium stone like you are trying to cut it in half. This will grind into the edge and remove the weakened/deformed metal. When you sharpen it then on the medium rods you will create an edge out of fresh and strong steel.

Even on steels like 420J2, you should easily be able to go on the other of months before the knife will not slice a tomato easily for example. This is a 420J2 Chicago Cutlery knife and it took three months to get to this stage with it being the only knife I was using in the kitchen :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P-8NRHFcgM

The blunting at this time was just deformation, no wear as noted in the linked video where the edge is restored with just a smooth rod. In general abrasive wear is really low in kitchen use so high carbide steels like VG-10 are not terribly useful.

As for frozen foods, unless it is in packaging like cutting through frozen cans of juice and similar which have metal rims. It isn't overly demanding unless you are having to chop/pound on the spine to make the cut, as long as it can be cut with similar force to non-frozen food, it isn't that hard on the edge as ice is very soft.

The biggest issue is when the cut can not be made and you start twisting/prying which doesn't usually damage the edge but can bend tips or even the main blade in extreme cases.

[JohnTaylor]

[Before you invest in a new knife there is likely some issues with the sharpening if they are going blunt that fast. I would suspect that the edge is rolled and it is being aligned and not actually sharpened on the Sharpmaker as the knives are behaving just like they were steeled.]

I think you may be right. Yesterday I sharpened/aligned the knife so that it easily cut telephone book paper. This morning my wife used it to cut a few vegetables after which I could no longer cut telephone book paper. 4 passes with medium, 8 passes with fine, 8 passes with ultra fine... and I was back to cutting paper easily. So, what am I doing wrong, how can I detect my mistakes, and what can I do to correct them?

[Cliff Stamp]

I think you may be right. Yesterday I sharpened/aligned the knife so that it easily cut telephone book paper. This morning my wife used it to cut a few vegetables after which I could no longer cut telephone book paper. 4 passes with medium, 8 passes with fine, 8 passes with ultra fine... and I was back to cutting paper easily.

Assuming the vegetables were not cut on a plate or glass cutting board, the edge is over stressed and it is folding prematurely. Take the knife, make one light pass into the edge of the medium rod as if you were trying to saw it in half. Just use the weight of the knife, don't actually press into it.

Nothing will happen if you do press very hard except you will remove more material than you need to. This step will grind off weakened metal and it should leave the knife fairly dull and reflecting light along the entire edge. If it doesn't reflect light along the edge edge just make another pass.

Now go back to the medium rods and start using alternating passes and use very light force, check every few passes and stop when the edge is no longer reflecting light. This should not take very long, maybe 10-20 passes at most, depending on the edge bevel width/angle.

Now switch to the fine rods, again using the flats and elevate/tilt the blade to increase the angle by a significant amount, get it up to about 30-40 degrees per side, make 1-2 pass per side alternating extremely light as in 5-10 grams, do not even use the weight of the knife.

You don't need to measure this, just make sure the angle is a lot higher than you are honing.

Now go back to the pure vertical strokes and finish with 5-10 passes (again depending on the edge angle/width). The edge should now be sharp and destressed and the edge retention will be 10-100X greater.

If you have the UF stones and want more of a polish, then just repeat with them, use the tilted passes then the regular ones.

If you don't do the destressing step (the first cut into the medium rod) the edge will collapse with the first passes on the rods and you will end up with an edge which is formed out of highly worn/weakened metal and it will have low slicing aggression and almost non-existent edge retention.

[John E]

I know that there is often interest in buying Golden made Spyderco knives in order to support Made in USA knives. I live in Western Massachusetts where one of the oldest and few (if only) factories making cooking knives exists- Lamson & Goodnow is located in Shelburne Falls, MA. They make a very large number of knives for commercial purposes, but also has a very nice line of forged cooking knives "Lamsonsharp". They actually have a very nice outlet store in the factory, but also sell in quite a few cook stores around here, and by mail order. I have quite a few of their knives ( a 6" santoku, a 10" chef's knife, a 6" chef's knife, a boning knife, etc.) I do not know the exact steel they use, but the knives stay sharp well, and are easy to sharpen. I have used both a waterstone and (when in more of a rush) the sharpmaker.

Just wanted to offer an alternative to the german, chinese, and japan made knife mentioned.

John E.

[jzmtl]

Shun knives are very well made, although the one I have has too much belly for my liking. I sharpen it and my other ZDP189 chef's knife with sharpmaker and it works great.

[kennethsime]

Shun knives are very well made, although the one I have has too much belly for my liking. I sharpen it and my other ZDP189 chef's knife with sharpmaker and it works great.

ZDP-189 Chef's Knife? Please tell more, now please.

[jzmtl]

ZDP-189 Chef's Knife? Please tell more, now please.

Henckels Cermax 66, 9.5" of laminated ZDP hardened to HRC 65~67, made by their Japanese plant. There are other Japanese brands with ZDP too but they go for two or three times the price of Henckels.

Just an example, I bought on ebay and was a little cheaper. http://www.chefknivestogo.com/hencke...hef-knife.html

A photo I took and used as avatar for some time.




I'm not sure what's with love for santoku, I really don't like it, too little weight and too little clearance for main kitchen duty. I use Shun's Chinese chef and it works much better.

[kennethsime]

Henckels Cermax 66, 9.5" of laminated ZDP hardened to HRC 65~67, made by their Japanese plant. There are other Japanese brands with ZDP too but they go for two or three times the price of Henckels.

We actually sell the twin cermax in the shop I work at, I had no idea it was ZDP-189. Do you know if the MD68 is also ZDP just at a higher hardness? The Chef's and Santoku they did with the red micarta and laminated with damascus a la Shun?

I'm not sure what's with love for santoku, I really don't like it, too little weight and too little clearance for main kitchen duty. I use Shun's Chinese chef and it works much better.

I'm also with you on this. The Chinese Cleaver/Chinese Chef's knife I have gets the most use. Second is the Chef's Knife, even though my Santoku is actually a nicer knife in terms of handle design & steel (Henckels over Messermeister).

[jzmtl]

We actually sell the twin cermax in the shop I work at, I had no idea it was ZDP-189. Do you know if the MD68 is also ZDP just at a higher hardness? The Chef's and Santoku they did with the red micarta and laminated with damascus a la Shun?

I'm not familiar with MD68 so can't say. Henckels doesn't say publicly what steel is used in cermax, but someone on a kitchen knife forum asked them specifically and they replied it's ZDP. Besides there certainly isn't many steel that can reach that hardness.