I might have come to the end of my super steel lust

[Evil D]

Ever since i joined this forum i've been on this quest for a higher end steel. I've tried a lot of the current offerings, but the main diet has been VG10, S30V, ZDP-189 and the latest which is CTS-20CP. The primary thing i cut is usually corrugated boxes, and i've found that most steels i can use through one shift at work and dull down to the point where they won't really slice printer paper anymore.

Which brings me to this 20CP stuff. I sharpen it to 36 degrees inclusive with a pretty low (25ish) back bevel. Lately i've noticed some chipping issues, which is something that annoys the hell out of me. I've always said that a chipped edge is better than a rolled edge because it will still cut...but man i'm getting sick of honing out chips. I really don't feel that 36 inclusive is asking too much....is it? I'm not the most gentile knife user..i'm usually working fast and when i cut a box down, it gets ripped through pretty aggressively.

So far i've blamed the chipping on how hard i use the knife, but i'm open to thoughts on it. Tonight i set the primary edge to 42 degrees inclusive on my Edge Pro. I've never really been fond of thick edges, and i consider 40 to be as thick of an edge as i like to go with, but i'm playing it safe and just sticking to the 22 degree setting on my EP and i'll see how it goes from here. The main thing that concerns me is the longevity of the knife, because i can already tell i've sharpened into the blade quite a bit more than i have on my DLC Para 2, and i carried that knife for a lot longer than i've had the 20CP. If i'm constantly sharpening out chips, i'm worried it's going to shorten the lifespan of the knife.

So now i've come to a crossroads where i'm asking myself if chipping is an acceptable nature of the beast when dealing with these kinds of steels. The edge retention is pretty amazing...i can still easily slice phone book paper after a day of work, but i'm way too much of a perfectionist to leave those chips alone so i find that despite the increased edge retention, i'm sharpening this knife at the end of every day anyways just like i would be with VG10.

Thoughts? Oh, and as for the edge as it is now, it's practically a convex edge since i have 3 bevels happening at the same time and they've all been stropped out pretty smooth.

[wsdavies]

Maybe something like this for work http://www.havalon.com/the-piranta-knives.html and save the spydies for EDC tasks.

[Cliff Stamp]

How big are the chips?

[Slash]

Sell it, hopefully w/o taking a loss.

Cross your fingers and wish the green 204 doesn't chip.

What do you think you're cutting that's causing the blade to chip?

[Evil D]

How big are the chips?

Large enough i can see them with the naked eye. If you hold the edge under light they just show up as a shiny spot but if you run your nail down the edge you can feel them, and under a 10x loupe they're very clear. I've found that i mostly cut with the base of the edge near the tang, so i'm only seeing chips back in that area.

[Evil D]

Sell it, hopefully w/o taking a loss.

Cross your fingers and wish the green 204 doesn't chip.

What do you think you're cutting that's causing the blade to chip?

Eh, i've already played around with the bevel so much i would be losing money if i sold it..i'm not real concerned about selling it. I cut almost nothing but corrugated (cardboard) at work so i'm pretty certain that's the cause. Right now i'm blaming it more on user error than the steel...since as i said i'm fairly aggressive with my cuts. I'm hoping that the thick primary edge paired with a low back bevel can get me some kind of middle ground on how well it slices.

So far i can't tell any real difference in how it slices..it still pops hair off with ease and push cuts phone book paper just like it always did.

[Clip]

Hopefully you can figure an angle that works for you. If you're using it that hard I'd suggest just using a utility knife; Craftsman had a pretty solid one a few years ago and I've torn through way too many blades to count. I love the fact I can abuse the hell out of a razor then flip it around or toss it without having to worry. Things that would make me cringe using my EDC, like using a concrete floor as a cutting board.

Although I fully understand the displeasure that would come from not using your knife.

[Evil D]

I do carry a basic flat razor knife, and i use it on some things but afterall, i didn't pay $220 for this knife to let it sit in my pocket and catch pocket lint, ya know?

[ChrisM]

I don't freak out about chips and just sharpen or touch up when the whole edge is dull. Eventually sharpening will catch up to the chips. The only real negative of a chipped blade in a working mans knife is if he gets bored and wants to slice toilet paper on YouTube.

[tonydahose]

i understand wanting to use your knife but sharpening it every day after work, especially since you are sharpening by hand just seems too much for me, i guess i am just lazy in that regards. i was just cutting up some pretty thick cardboard with my manix xl2 a few days back and while it was and still is very sharp, i needed to use alot of force to cut because of the thickness of the blade and the FFG. I would be more inclined to use a box cutter if i had to cut a bunch of cardboard all day.

[Evil D]

I don't freak out about chips and just sharpen or touch up when the whole edge is dull. Eventually sharpening will catch up to the chips. The only real negative of a chipped blade in a working mans knife is if he gets bored and wants to slice toilet paper on YouTube.

In the end if raising the edge bevel doesn't help any, then i'll probably seek counseling on how to deal with chips and just let touch ups hone them out over time...but man i can feel my OCD twitch just thinking about it lol.

[jackknifeh]

I've never used CTS-20CP but have had the same experience with ZDP-189. Very small "micro chips" I call them. The first thing I used a ZDP blade on was replacing an electric outlet. I used the knife to cut around the copper wires to remove the insulation. I used VERY light pressure so as not to damage the wire. After I was done I cut some printer paper to see how it was still cutting. I could feel tiny chips when they hit the paper. The knife kept cutting and was still as sharp as it was before the job. It just had tiny chips that you could barely see and that's only if you looked REAL close. As time went on I had the exact same performance with any ZDP knife I got. At first I thought I was going to be able to sharpen the steel at very low angles and have great edge slicing performance as well as good edge retention. What I found was I kept the very edge at least as high as 38 degrees inclusive. That was the edge bevel and I would put a back bevel of around 26 deg inclusive depending on the grind of the blade usually. With the "normal" edge bevel angle of almost 40 degrees I could get by with very little chipping.

Now, VG-10 is a very acceptable steel. It gets dull as fast as it does and that's all there is to it. No odball issues like chipping. Easy to sharpen. I touch it up with the ceramic bench stone, fine or UF depending on how dull it has gotten.

CPM-S30V seems to have better edge retention than VG-10, also with no chipping. I like this steel a lot.

CPM-M4 seems to have a little better retention than S30V, and no chipping here either. This is my favorite steel right now.

AUS-8 and 8Cr13MoV are very good steels for the value knives. Better than the $10 to $20 knives I've bought all my life.

Any other steels I've owned I didn't use enough to really get a decent opinion of, good or bad.

The only steel I've had that required sharpening with specific angles is ZDP-189.

The next knife I plan to buy is the Chaparral Stealth with CTS-XHP. I've heard very good things about it. I'm looking forward to using it.

Some very intellegent, mature, and good looking people love the Gayle Bradley knife. Other people who don't posess any of the aformentioned character traits don't think the Gayle Bradley is all that great. It seems the same thing holds true for different blade steels. Some like S30V and some don't, just like different people like a particular knife and others don't. That must depend on how they use the knife, aggressivly or with a light touch maybe.

Jack

[Evil D]

See i've also had some very minor chipping issues with S30V, but i've also kept it sharpened at 30 inclusive so i don't fault the steel so much for that.

[Wolverine666]

So you paid $220 for a knife that you're gonna trash at work on cardboard and that you have to fix up and resharpen every night ? That's just silly. Why wouldn't you just use a knife that costs half that price (or even less) for all the grunt work and save the fancy one for more appropriate tasks ?

It's your money and your choice. But for what you're doing to your knife , you're just better off with a knife that costs @ $120 less with S30V , 154CM or VG-10.

[jackknifeh]

See i've also had some very minor chipping issues with S30V, but i've also kept it sharpened at 30 inclusive so i don't fault the steel so much for that.

I just checked and all of my S30V blades have a 36 inclusive edge bevel and 24 to 28 degree back bevels. I don't think a 36 degree edge bevel is all that low. When I decided (finally) to spend the money required to get a better quality knife all I was concerned about was edge retention. I didn't give a hoot about edge angles or getting them as low as possible. I found out about that stuff from this forum. Since my desire for edge retention has been satisfied I quit experimenting with really low angles. I believe the standard edge angle has been in the neighborhood of 40 degrees for many years. I think that standard came as a result of the lesser quality stainless steels. With time, stainless steels have gotten better and better. Now we can get lower angles and still maintain good performance. So, I figure why push it? I use angles lower than the old standard but not so low I'm risking the side effects of very low angles. I remember a while back several people here were experimenting with REALLY low edge angles. Some people claimed 20 degrees inclusive and lower. Now, no-one mentions extremely low angles. It's like their curiousity (and mine) was satisfied. Now those people have been using whatever angles they found were acceptable to them in their everyday life.

Jack

[gbelleh]

Yeah, I'd just use a cheap utility knife with replaceable blades for the cardboard.

I know, driving the Lamborghini is awesome, but if the lumber doesn't fit, it might be time to switch to a pickup truck.

[Cheddarnut]

So you paid $220 for a knife that you're gonna trash at work on cardboard and that you have to fix up and resharpen every night ? That's just silly. Why wouldn't you just use a knife that costs half that price (or even less) for all the grunt work and save the fancy one for more appropriate tasks ?

It's your money and your choice. But for what you're doing to your knife , you're just better off with a knife that costs @ $120 less with S30V , 154CM or VG-10.

I think our excuse for buying super steels that are expensive because they are supposed to last longer is that they last longer, i think david is trying to offset the cost with use.

[Drkknight614]

Ahh, the dilema that more and more people seem to be experiencing. Many great super steels are coming out with amazing edge retention, but unfortunatly many of them are either more difficult to sharpen and or chip, resulting in having to take off more metal and changing the profile of the blade. A knife that rolls will last longer then one that chips for the simple fact that the original profile will last longer.

One if my biggest youtube favorites, virtuovice talked about this in one of his latest videos. He was discussing the Bark River Bravo 1 and the new Bravo 1 in 3V. Hes a hunter and where his A2 steel bravo could skin maybe 2 or 3 deer, his 3v could do 8...and still cut paper. Unfortunatly it chipped more easily also and he mentioned he would have to change the edge profile more often and eventually the edge would get very thick, and then you would have to reprofile the entire blade. So his favorite is still the A2.

[razorsharp]

You sound like you need some m390/204p/20cv From what I hear, similar edge retention but from my usages, its tough stuff...I cut up some tin and aluminium with minimal edge damage (like a roll and some flattening when I pushcut the tin )

[Popsickle]

You sound like you need some m390/204p/20cv From what I hear, similar edge retention but from my usages, its tough stuff...I cut up some tin and aluminium with minimal edge damage (like a roll and some flattening when I pushcut the tin )

+1 any of those 3 listed are on my new favorites list!