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Thread: Under the microscope

  1. #161
    Spyderco Forum Registered User chuck_roxas45's Avatar
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    Nice pic Clip. That looks like there's an inclusion too.
    I always heard that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, but then you catch even more flies with poop



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  2. #162
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Clip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuck_roxas45 View Post
    Nice pic Clip. That looks like there's an inclusion too.
    Thanks! Could very well be an inclusion (wish I was able to get a 500x), but looking at the 100x pic I wonder if it's just pitting on the M2 steel?
    Click here to zoom: Under the Microscope

    Manix2, Elmax MT13, M4 Manix2, ZDP Caly3, ZDP Caly Jr, SB Caly3.5, M390 Para2, Cruwear MT12, Techno, XHP MT16, South Fork, SB Caly3, Manix2 Ltwt, Salt I, 20CP Para2, Military Left Hand, Perrin PPT, Forum Native5, Squeak, Manix 83mm, 440V Military, Gayle Bradley, Swick3, Lil' Temperance, Cruwear Military, VG10 Jester, Terzuola SlipIt, XHP Native Ltwt, Domino, CPM154/S90V Para2, SB Stretch, D2 Para, Dfly2 Salt, Tasman Salt

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  3. #163
    Spyderco Forum Registered User MadRookie's Avatar
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    Wow again!


  4. #164
    Spyderco Forum Registered User monsterdog's Avatar
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    This is amazing, thank you

    P.S. Those up close rolled edges made me throw up a little in my mouth

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lagrangian View Post
    Just for fun:

    A human being is about 2 meters high.
    Mount Everest is about 8,800 meters high.
    So Mount Everast is about 4,400x times taller than a person.

    A knife edge is about 0.4 microns sharp.
    So compared to a knife edge, a person is 2/(0.4*10^-6) = 5,000,000x bigger than the knife edge.

    If the knife edge were a mountain-climber, and he needed to climb a human being, then how tall of a mountain would that be? Doing the calculation: 8800*(5,000,000/4,400) = 10^7 meters. So, to a knife edge, a person is a mountain 10,000 kilometers tall.

    In othewords, to a knife edge, a person is a mountain so huge, it is taller than the length of a continent!

    If that did not blow your mind, I think it should. Because when we are sharpening, we are forming an edge so much smaller than ourselves, it is like a world continent reaching out to grab the huge island of Madagascar (1,570 km) and sharpening it down to an apex the size of a single human being (2m). How would a giant the size of a continent even notice the single person at the apex?

    And yet, experienced knife users can tell when their edges are scary-sharp (sub-micron) versus not (maybe a several microns).

    Sincerely,
    --Lagrangian
    This thread keeps getting better and better and this is the post of the year! Guess thats what fleas and mites feel like when they climbing a persons body lol.

    Btw, the 100x used manix 2 image is my new iPhone home wallpaper. Now I can have blades as my wallpaper without people freaking out when they see them lol.
    Manix 2 DLC, Delica 4 FFG, Ladybug 3,County Comm H1 Ladybug 3 , Endura 4 FFG G10, C94 UKPK Leaf, Atlantic Salt, Military Camo DLC,Sage 1 Para 2 DLC, Delica 4.

  6. #166
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    Any chance you could post some pics of a cpm3v blade edge under the scope?

  7. #167
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Clip's Avatar
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    Nobody, sorry I haven't updated this thread lately. I took a new job that moved me away from the metallurgical microscopes, so I don't really have access to that nice high magnification any more. However, I'm looking into a set of extension tubes for my DSLR/100mm macro lens to see if I can get anywhere close to what I was able to do before. Also, no 3V in my stock yet.
    Click here to zoom: Under the Microscope

    Manix2, Elmax MT13, M4 Manix2, ZDP Caly3, ZDP Caly Jr, SB Caly3.5, M390 Para2, Cruwear MT12, Techno, XHP MT16, South Fork, SB Caly3, Manix2 Ltwt, Salt I, 20CP Para2, Military Left Hand, Perrin PPT, Forum Native5, Squeak, Manix 83mm, 440V Military, Gayle Bradley, Swick3, Lil' Temperance, Cruwear Military, VG10 Jester, Terzuola SlipIt, XHP Native Ltwt, Domino, CPM154/S90V Para2, SB Stretch, D2 Para, Dfly2 Salt, Tasman Salt

    Chris

  8. #168
    Spyderco Forum Registered User SmallBlock's Avatar
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    What type of sharpening system did you use on this blade to get such a perfect angle? I also use a microscope up to 100x magnification to find the little hidden spots on my edge. Your angle is awesome I have to say!

  9. #169
    Spyderco Forum Registered User jackknifeh's Avatar
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    I almost hate to look at my beautiful mirror finish edges under magnification. The higher the magnification the greater the depression.

    Jack

    My EDC for a while. Stretch with carbon fiber handle, Chaparral 2, Dragonfly 2 with kirinite MOP handle, Manbug with bolster/red bone handle. Super blue/420J1 blades on all three (except Chaparral).

  10. #170
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    I love looking at stuff like this

    It' s just fascinating how a seemingly smooth surface turns into a wild scenery of canyons and craters under a little magnification.

  11. #171
    Spyderco Forum Registered User jackknifeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywalker1 View Post
    I love looking at stuff like this

    It' s just fascinating how a seemingly smooth surface turns into a wild scenery of canyons and craters under a little magnification.
    That's why I never liked meeting girls in a dark club or bar. As we get closer to each other she gets a better look at what I really look like.

    My EDC for a while. Stretch with carbon fiber handle, Chaparral 2, Dragonfly 2 with kirinite MOP handle, Manbug with bolster/red bone handle. Super blue/420J1 blades on all three (except Chaparral).

  12. #172
    Spyderco Forum Registered User kbuzbee's Avatar
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    And vice versa

    Ken
    玉鋼

  13. #173
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    Thank you Clip! Very nice pictures!

    And thanks to Mandrake for posting a link to Mr. Verhoeven's technical report on knife sharpening. I spent my weekend reading this forum and Mr. Verhoeven's report. My knowledge of knife sharpening has been expanded thanks to the cool people here! I especially liked the picture of the magnified diamond lansky hones and the knife edges where you measured out features, such as grooves in blade caused by the sharpening media ....

    Quesion Clip,

    I vaguely remember someone asking if they could see the "carbides" in the magnified pictures of the knife. Now, with my rudimentary knowledge of metallurgy, to view grains in the blade, do you have to polish the steel to a mirror like finnish, and then etch it using a solution of nitric acid and methyl alcohol? Ref. J.D. Verhoeven. 2005. Metallurgy of steel for bladesmiths & others who heat treat and forge steel. Iowa State University.

    With that being said, the sample in his paper was pure Iron magnified to 100x in an optical microscope. Now your samples go beyond 100x magnification, and your pictures do not resemble anything like that from the sample of pure Iron. I can't seem to make out any grains or grain boundaries. Shouldn't they be more apparent since steel is mostly iron? And, Am I not seeing individual grains at high magnification because it was not polished and etched?

    Thanks again!!!
    Last edited by Pocket Lint; 08-12-2013 at 08:43 PM. Reason: Added reference

  14. #174
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    Dunno how I missed this thread when it first came out it is extremely interesting! With that said, there is one thing I did not see in my quick perusal of the thread that I think could interesting, but we can see what others think. Do you think it would be possible to show the differences between stropping mediums? Like, showing the differences of an edge from a leather strop, balsa wood strop, maybe also a cardboard strop, and some of the other DIY strops? I heard of people using newspaper as a cheap makeshift strop, as well as yellow legal pads? Something to do with the ink I think? I understand it would take a while to show the results but it could also be very telling too.

    Also, thanks for doing this! You must have a nice workplace to be able to do this!

  15. #175
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Clip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmallBlock View Post
    What type of sharpening system did you use on this blade to get such a perfect angle? I also use a microscope up to 100x magnification to find the little hidden spots on my edge. Your angle is awesome I have to say!
    SmallBlock, I can't remember off the top of my head but some were factory edges and some were Lansky edges. I can't remember if I did any with the Edge Pro and Choseras while I was working at this job. You should be able to find most of the info in the posts and in my first post on this thread with the table of contents. Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by skywalker1 View Post
    I love looking at stuff like this

    It' s just fascinating how a seemingly smooth surface turns into a wild scenery of canyons and craters under a little magnification.
    Skywalker, I spent quite a few hours getting lost in the microscope and going through all the crazy features under 500x

    Quote Originally Posted by Pocket Lint View Post
    Thank you Clip! Very nice pictures!

    And thanks to Mandrake for posting a link to Mr. Verhoeven's technical report on knife sharpening. I spent my weekend reading this forum and Mr. Verhoeven's report. My knowledge of knife sharpening has been expanded thanks to the cool people here! I especially liked the picture of the magnified diamond lansky hones and the knife edges where you measured out features, such as grooves in blade caused by the sharpening media ....

    Quesion Clip,

    I vaguely remember someone asking if they could see the "carbides" in the magnified pictures of the knife. Now, with my rudimentary knowledge of metallurgy, to view grains in the blade, do you have to polish the steel to a mirror like finnish, and then etch it using a solution of nitric acid and methyl alcohol?

    With that being said, the sample in his paper was pure Iron magnified to 100x in an optical microscope. Now your samples go beyond 100x magnification, and your pictures do not resemble anything like that from the sample of pure Iron. I can't seem to make out any grains or grain boundaries. Shouldn't they be more apparent since steel is mostly iron? And, Am I not seeing individual grains at high magnification because it was not polished and etched?

    Thanks again!!!
    Lint, you're correct. At magnifications of 100x with a finely polished sample, you'd be able to see grains/carbides and grain boundaries. To prep the samples we would work with, we'd polish from 100 grit to 600 grit in four steps on sandpaper, then move over to a 20 micron diamond wheel, then 10 micron, then finish up at 5, 2, 1, and 0.5 micron slurries on felt and satin wheels to get a mirror finish. After this, we'd etch according to the ASTM tables for recommended etchants. Different steels/metals called for different etchant solutions. We used what you're talking about, a weak nitric and ethanol to make Nital, in school to etch bismuth/tin samples. With high carbide welding wires and high alloy joining wires, we used either Kallings or Viella's. Here's a good article from Carpenter explaining more in detail.

    http://www.cartech.com/techarticles.aspx?id=1450

    My samples weren't polished nearly fine enough to get the resolution most micrographs can get. I had been looking for broken blades or samples to mount and polish properly to do some microhardness testing and take some real micrographs, but couldn't ever locate any. About the only pictures I have that might get close to the level of detail required to see grains and boundaries is on post 137, where I polished up my 154CM Manix using the EP and it still doesn't come close.
    Click here to zoom: Under the Microscope

    Manix2, Elmax MT13, M4 Manix2, ZDP Caly3, ZDP Caly Jr, SB Caly3.5, M390 Para2, Cruwear MT12, Techno, XHP MT16, South Fork, SB Caly3, Manix2 Ltwt, Salt I, 20CP Para2, Military Left Hand, Perrin PPT, Forum Native5, Squeak, Manix 83mm, 440V Military, Gayle Bradley, Swick3, Lil' Temperance, Cruwear Military, VG10 Jester, Terzuola SlipIt, XHP Native Ltwt, Domino, CPM154/S90V Para2, SB Stretch, D2 Para, Dfly2 Salt, Tasman Salt

    Chris

  16. #176
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    Very interesting stuff. This thread makes a lot more sense to me now than it did a few months ago when I'd just started to get interested in knife steel, etc. I think it should be bumped up every month or so in order for new people to see it. Thanks for all the work you did on it, Chris.
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  17. #177
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Clip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DougC-3 View Post
    Very interesting stuff. This thread makes a lot more sense to me now than it did a few months ago when I'd just started to get interested in knife steel, etc. I think it should be bumped up every month or so in order for new people to see it. Thanks for all the work you did on it, Chris.
    I wish I still had the equipment to do all this, but at the same time I'm happy I was able to switch jobs. This just means I have to keep my eye out for used metallographic equipment.

    Thanks Doug!
    Click here to zoom: Under the Microscope

    Manix2, Elmax MT13, M4 Manix2, ZDP Caly3, ZDP Caly Jr, SB Caly3.5, M390 Para2, Cruwear MT12, Techno, XHP MT16, South Fork, SB Caly3, Manix2 Ltwt, Salt I, 20CP Para2, Military Left Hand, Perrin PPT, Forum Native5, Squeak, Manix 83mm, 440V Military, Gayle Bradley, Swick3, Lil' Temperance, Cruwear Military, VG10 Jester, Terzuola SlipIt, XHP Native Ltwt, Domino, CPM154/S90V Para2, SB Stretch, D2 Para, Dfly2 Salt, Tasman Salt

    Chris

  18. #178
    Spyderco Forum Registered User shunsui's Avatar
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    Great thread, Clip.

    Seems like the pictures before page 7 or so disappeared tonight for me. Looks like Photobucket is throwing a tantrum.

    Lately I've been using anonmgur for free hosting.

    http://www.anonmgur.com/
    Last edited by shunsui; 08-14-2013 at 02:15 AM.

  19. #179
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Clip's Avatar
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    Thanks for the heads up. This happened before and prompted me to make a second account, right around page 7. I think it has something to do with how many views the pictures are getting and resets monthly. I'll see what I can do to remedy the situation, but it might take a while moving all the links.
    Click here to zoom: Under the Microscope

    Manix2, Elmax MT13, M4 Manix2, ZDP Caly3, ZDP Caly Jr, SB Caly3.5, M390 Para2, Cruwear MT12, Techno, XHP MT16, South Fork, SB Caly3, Manix2 Ltwt, Salt I, 20CP Para2, Military Left Hand, Perrin PPT, Forum Native5, Squeak, Manix 83mm, 440V Military, Gayle Bradley, Swick3, Lil' Temperance, Cruwear Military, VG10 Jester, Terzuola SlipIt, XHP Native Ltwt, Domino, CPM154/S90V Para2, SB Stretch, D2 Para, Dfly2 Salt, Tasman Salt

    Chris

  20. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clip View Post
    I wish I still had the equipment to do all this, but at the same time I'm happy I was able to switch jobs. This just means I have to keep my eye out for used metallographic equipment.

    Thanks Doug!
    Let me know if you run across a super good deal on an ordinary Nikon binocular dissecting scope
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