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Thread: Under the microscope

  1. #81
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Donut's Avatar
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    Awesome, thank you.
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  2. #82
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Clip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackknifeh View Post
    You guys are definately getting obsessive with this edge thing. I think it's crazy.
    I read this and was going to say, "Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black" after reading about your adventures with Nano-oil, then I read further and understood

    Cubsfan, if it works it works!

    Lag, looks like it'll be beneficial to put that scale bar in microns from now on. I'll see if there's a setting where I can put the popular measurements you listed, but I think I can only do one defined length.

    I spent some serious time last night sharpening the M4 Manix from the coarse Lansky diamond to the green strop. This is the sharpest I've gotten my knife yet, should be very interesting to compare to the factory grind. I'll try to get pictures this afternoon, then cut up some cardboard lying around the house tonight.
    Click here to zoom: Under the Microscope

    Manix2, Elmax MT13, M4 Manix2, ZDP Caly3, ZDP Caly Jr, SB Caly3.5, M390 Para2, Cruwear MT12, Techno, XHP MT16, South Fork, SB Caly3, Manix2 Ltwt, Salt I, 20CP Para2, Military Left Hand, Perrin PPT, Forum Native5, Squeak, Manix 83mm, 440V Military, Gayle Bradley, Swick3, Lil' Temperance, Cruwear Military, VG10 Jester, Terzuola SlipIt, XHP Native Ltwt, Domino, CPM154/S90V Para2, SB Stretch, D2 Para, Dfly2 Salt, Tasman Salt

    Chris

  3. #83
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Clip's Avatar
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    Got the micros of the edge after fully sharpening the Manix2.

    M4 - FFG, Lansky full diamond set, stropped with black and green compounds after. Sharpened to Lansky's 17 on the logo side and 20 on the origin side. Looks like the edge is definitely smoother than factory.

    First, a macro to show the visible edge, slightly matte. Need to make a soft box in the near future. You can see at the left side the grind got noticeably steeper and I didn't care to reprofile all the way, but the edge is sharp.



    50x



    100x



    200x



    500x



    1000x

    Click here to zoom: Under the Microscope

    Manix2, Elmax MT13, M4 Manix2, ZDP Caly3, ZDP Caly Jr, SB Caly3.5, M390 Para2, Cruwear MT12, Techno, XHP MT16, South Fork, SB Caly3, Manix2 Ltwt, Salt I, 20CP Para2, Military Left Hand, Perrin PPT, Forum Native5, Squeak, Manix 83mm, 440V Military, Gayle Bradley, Swick3, Lil' Temperance, Cruwear Military, VG10 Jester, Terzuola SlipIt, XHP Native Ltwt, Domino, CPM154/S90V Para2, SB Stretch, D2 Para, Dfly2 Salt, Tasman Salt

    Chris

  4. #84
    Spyderco Forum Registered User jackknifeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clip View Post
    Got the micros of the edge after fully sharpening the Manix2.

    M4 - FFG, Lansky full diamond set, stropped with black and green compounds after. Sharpened to Lansky's 17 on the logo side and 20 on the origin side. Looks like the edge is definitely smoother than factory.

    First, a macro to show the visible edge, slightly matte. Need to make a soft box in the near future. You can see at the left side the grind got noticeably steeper and I didn't care to reprofile all the way, but the edge is sharp.



    50x



    100x



    200x



    500x



    1000x

    Great pictures. Thanks to you and others I now know how ugly my beatiful edges really are.

    I haven't read every post so maybe I missed the reason but why did you put different angles on opposite sides of the blade?

    Jack

    My EDC for a while. Stretch with carbon fiber handle, Chaparral 2, Dragonfly 2 with kirinite MOP handle, Manbug with bolster/red bone handle. Super blue/420J1 blades on all three (except Chaparral).

  5. #85
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Clip's Avatar
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    These were the closest to the factory angles on both the 154CM and the M4 Manix2s. After a year of carrying it with the factory angles, I completely reprofiled the origin side of the 154CM Manix2 so it would be (Lansky) 17 both sides. I'll probably do the same with the M4 after a while, but it definitely takes longer to shape.
    Click here to zoom: Under the Microscope

    Manix2, Elmax MT13, M4 Manix2, ZDP Caly3, ZDP Caly Jr, SB Caly3.5, M390 Para2, Cruwear MT12, Techno, XHP MT16, South Fork, SB Caly3, Manix2 Ltwt, Salt I, 20CP Para2, Military Left Hand, Perrin PPT, Forum Native5, Squeak, Manix 83mm, 440V Military, Gayle Bradley, Swick3, Lil' Temperance, Cruwear Military, VG10 Jester, Terzuola SlipIt, XHP Native Ltwt, Domino, CPM154/S90V Para2, SB Stretch, D2 Para, Dfly2 Salt, Tasman Salt

    Chris

  6. #86
    Spyderco Forum Registered User jackknifeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clip View Post
    These were the closest to the factory angles on both the 154CM and the M4 Manix2s. After a year of carrying it with the factory angles, I completely reprofiled the origin side of the 154CM Manix2 so it would be (Lansky) 17 both sides. I'll probably do the same with the M4 after a while, but it definitely takes longer to shape.
    M4 will take a little longer. I love that steel. The reason the angles are not the same on the factory edge is the knives are hand held against a grinding wheel or belt. Maybe not at all factories but one video I saw they used a grinding wheel. Due to human error the angles are a little different once in a while. Doesn't take away from being very sharp though.

    Jack

    My EDC for a while. Stretch with carbon fiber handle, Chaparral 2, Dragonfly 2 with kirinite MOP handle, Manbug with bolster/red bone handle. Super blue/420J1 blades on all three (except Chaparral).

  7. #87
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Clip's Avatar
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    I'm definitely not knocking Spyderco's ability to put an edge on a blade. Can't expect something done by hand to be exact on both sides! I don't notice the few degrees difference and there's always a possibility that a little more steel provides (probably negligible) strength.
    Click here to zoom: Under the Microscope

    Manix2, Elmax MT13, M4 Manix2, ZDP Caly3, ZDP Caly Jr, SB Caly3.5, M390 Para2, Cruwear MT12, Techno, XHP MT16, South Fork, SB Caly3, Manix2 Ltwt, Salt I, 20CP Para2, Military Left Hand, Perrin PPT, Forum Native5, Squeak, Manix 83mm, 440V Military, Gayle Bradley, Swick3, Lil' Temperance, Cruwear Military, VG10 Jester, Terzuola SlipIt, XHP Native Ltwt, Domino, CPM154/S90V Para2, SB Stretch, D2 Para, Dfly2 Salt, Tasman Salt

    Chris

  8. #88
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Clip's Avatar
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    Taking some more time to compare the M4's factory edge and my edge at 200x, it definitely looks like my coarse stone took all of the factory grind lines out and left some nice deep ones of my own. Next time I'll try and spend a lot more time than the recommended 6-10 passes with the medium and light diamond stones. Also, I'd guess that the lines at ~120 CCW are from the black stropping compound. A compound between the black/green might pull those out a little better.

    Factory



    Lansky

    Click here to zoom: Under the Microscope

    Manix2, Elmax MT13, M4 Manix2, ZDP Caly3, ZDP Caly Jr, SB Caly3.5, M390 Para2, Cruwear MT12, Techno, XHP MT16, South Fork, SB Caly3, Manix2 Ltwt, Salt I, 20CP Para2, Military Left Hand, Perrin PPT, Forum Native5, Squeak, Manix 83mm, 440V Military, Gayle Bradley, Swick3, Lil' Temperance, Cruwear Military, VG10 Jester, Terzuola SlipIt, XHP Native Ltwt, Domino, CPM154/S90V Para2, SB Stretch, D2 Para, Dfly2 Salt, Tasman Salt

    Chris

  9. #89
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    Hi Clip! Thanks for the micron length-scales!
    --------------------------------
    "What grit sharpens the mind?"
    --Zen Sharpening Koan

  10. #90
    Spyderco Forum Registered User dbcad's Avatar
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    Fantastic pictures Clip! There's much to learn about edges from your efforts! Much appreciation from all is obviously felt

    Reading through this thread has encouraged me to go even futher into "the dark side" than the edge of it I've scratched so far. Time to get another piece of leather and a finer grit paste than the 2um I'm currently using.

    Keep up the good work!!!
    Charlie

    " Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler."

    "Integrity is being good even if no one is watching"

  11. #91
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    Hi Clip,

    There was a discussion about ceramics and abrasives in general in the WEPS forums, and I was thinking,"Hmm.... it is difficult to get good pictures of what the surface of a ceramic stone looks like, because they are rough and it is hard to focus on their surfaces..." Then I though,"Oh yeah, Clip!"

    So if you have a chance, maybe you could use your microscope to take pictures of ceramic, diamond, and SiC stones? And with a micron length scale, plus Komitadjie's Grand Unified Grit Chart, it would be quite interesting!

    Sincerely,
    --Lagrangian
    --------------------------------
    "What grit sharpens the mind?"
    --Zen Sharpening Koan

  12. #92
    Spyderco Forum Registered User jackknifeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lagrangian View Post
    Hi Clip,

    There was a discussion about ceramics and abrasives in general in the WEPS forums, and I was thinking,"Hmm.... it is difficult to get good pictures of what the surface of a ceramic stone looks like, because they are rough and it is hard to focus on their surfaces..." Then I though,"Oh yeah, Clip!"

    So if you have a chance, maybe you could use your microscope to take pictures of ceramic, diamond, and SiC stones? And with a micron length scale, plus Komitadjie's Grand Unified Grit Chart, it would be quite interesting!

    Sincerely,
    --Lagrangian
    I'm interested in this also. I've been using ceramic stones (Spyderco of course ) for a while now.

    In addition to stones I'd like to see pictures of ceramic knife edges. I ordered the Ceramic knife/peeler from my TV. My TV sure is greedy. They came and the knife was VERY dull. I was surprised because my TV said they were sharp. I used diamond stones and got it sharper but you talk about time consuming.

    So, Clip, I'm sure you won't mind quitting your job and never spending time with your family so you can take pictures for us. I was just wondering what ceramic blade edges look like under high magnification. If you don't have any ceramic knives I bet your TV sells them. Seriously, I'm sure everyone appreciates the time you spend providing the pictures. I know I do.

    Jack

    My EDC for a while. Stretch with carbon fiber handle, Chaparral 2, Dragonfly 2 with kirinite MOP handle, Manbug with bolster/red bone handle. Super blue/420J1 blades on all three (except Chaparral).

  13. #93
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Clip's Avatar
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    You guys are in for a treat tonight! I've got pictures of the ZDP Caly 3 (without microbevel I'm about to add to it), a quarter (!), and my Lansky stones (very interesting).

    It'll take me a little bit and several posts to put them all together, but I think the pictures are worth it.

    A note about the ceramic materials and SiC stones, as well as the Lansky black hard Arkansas stone I'll be putting up tonight. The pictures will still be viewable, but won't be as sharp and bright as metallic/reflective materials.
    Click here to zoom: Under the Microscope

    Manix2, Elmax MT13, M4 Manix2, ZDP Caly3, ZDP Caly Jr, SB Caly3.5, M390 Para2, Cruwear MT12, Techno, XHP MT16, South Fork, SB Caly3, Manix2 Ltwt, Salt I, 20CP Para2, Military Left Hand, Perrin PPT, Forum Native5, Squeak, Manix 83mm, 440V Military, Gayle Bradley, Swick3, Lil' Temperance, Cruwear Military, VG10 Jester, Terzuola SlipIt, XHP Native Ltwt, Domino, CPM154/S90V Para2, SB Stretch, D2 Para, Dfly2 Salt, Tasman Salt

    Chris

  14. #94
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Clip's Avatar
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    First up: quarter.

    I figured I'd throw this up there with a micron scale to give a better sense of what we're looking at. Maybe you all have eyes that are better calibrated than mine, but this helps me visualize some of the measurements better!

    10x



    25x



    40x



    63x



    63x - 'D' next to scale bar



    63x - 'R' next to scale bar, also measured (I've got this ability and lots of others I'm playing with)



    50x - 'P' Philadelphia mint



    100x - 'P'



    50x - artist initials (Washington state quarter)



    100x - artist initials

    Click here to zoom: Under the Microscope

    Manix2, Elmax MT13, M4 Manix2, ZDP Caly3, ZDP Caly Jr, SB Caly3.5, M390 Para2, Cruwear MT12, Techno, XHP MT16, South Fork, SB Caly3, Manix2 Ltwt, Salt I, 20CP Para2, Military Left Hand, Perrin PPT, Forum Native5, Squeak, Manix 83mm, 440V Military, Gayle Bradley, Swick3, Lil' Temperance, Cruwear Military, VG10 Jester, Terzuola SlipIt, XHP Native Ltwt, Domino, CPM154/S90V Para2, SB Stretch, D2 Para, Dfly2 Salt, Tasman Salt

    Chris

  15. #95
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Clip's Avatar
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    Quarter continued:


    200x - artist initials

    Click here to zoom: Under the Microscope

    Manix2, Elmax MT13, M4 Manix2, ZDP Caly3, ZDP Caly Jr, SB Caly3.5, M390 Para2, Cruwear MT12, Techno, XHP MT16, South Fork, SB Caly3, Manix2 Ltwt, Salt I, 20CP Para2, Military Left Hand, Perrin PPT, Forum Native5, Squeak, Manix 83mm, 440V Military, Gayle Bradley, Swick3, Lil' Temperance, Cruwear Military, VG10 Jester, Terzuola SlipIt, XHP Native Ltwt, Domino, CPM154/S90V Para2, SB Stretch, D2 Para, Dfly2 Salt, Tasman Salt

    Chris

  16. #96
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Clip's Avatar
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    Onto something more interesting! This one I'm excited about because I could see evidence of chipping on the edge, and also thought to use the measurement tool to get values for the chips and also the scratch patterns.

    ZDP Caly3, sharpened at the 17 setting with Lansky diamond stones.

    10x



    25x



    40x



    63x



    50x



    100x



    200x



    500x



    1000x



    1000x - annotated

    Click here to zoom: Under the Microscope

    Manix2, Elmax MT13, M4 Manix2, ZDP Caly3, ZDP Caly Jr, SB Caly3.5, M390 Para2, Cruwear MT12, Techno, XHP MT16, South Fork, SB Caly3, Manix2 Ltwt, Salt I, 20CP Para2, Military Left Hand, Perrin PPT, Forum Native5, Squeak, Manix 83mm, 440V Military, Gayle Bradley, Swick3, Lil' Temperance, Cruwear Military, VG10 Jester, Terzuola SlipIt, XHP Native Ltwt, Domino, CPM154/S90V Para2, SB Stretch, D2 Para, Dfly2 Salt, Tasman Salt

    Chris

  17. #97
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Clip's Avatar
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    Now with micro bevel!

    Caly3, ZDP, 17 setting primary bevel with 25 setting micro bevel. Tonight I dropped this down to the 20 setting for kicks. I couldn't get pictures at 500x and 1000x because of the knife's orientation for light to catch the micro bevel. Hopefully I remedied some of the chipping seen earlier as I worked the micro bevel with an extremely light touch.

    The black marks are leftover marker from where I was looking at the bevel without magnification.

    10x



    25x



    40x



    63x



    50x




    100x



    200x

    Click here to zoom: Under the Microscope

    Manix2, Elmax MT13, M4 Manix2, ZDP Caly3, ZDP Caly Jr, SB Caly3.5, M390 Para2, Cruwear MT12, Techno, XHP MT16, South Fork, SB Caly3, Manix2 Ltwt, Salt I, 20CP Para2, Military Left Hand, Perrin PPT, Forum Native5, Squeak, Manix 83mm, 440V Military, Gayle Bradley, Swick3, Lil' Temperance, Cruwear Military, VG10 Jester, Terzuola SlipIt, XHP Native Ltwt, Domino, CPM154/S90V Para2, SB Stretch, D2 Para, Dfly2 Salt, Tasman Salt

    Chris

  18. #98
    Spyderco Forum Registered User xceptnl's Avatar
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    Chris, that last photo gives some great perspective. Thanks for all your time. This has continued to evolve into a great thread!
    My 's:
    Native, Manix 2 (BD1,154CM,S30V,M4,XHP,S110V,Cruwear), Delica 4 (White,Red,Brown,Blue,BRG,G-10), Spyderhawk, D'fly (H1,G-10,SB), Police3, Volpe, Military (S30V,XHP,D2,M390,BG42,440V,Cruwear), Superleafs, Forager, D2 Para, Kopas, Kiwis, Caly (JR's,3,3.5), Para2 (XHP,204P), Stretch (SS,FRN's,CF), Rescues, Dyad Jr, Pingos, Southard, AIR, Jess Horns, Forum N5, Lil Matriarch, Barong, Superhawk, Chinook II, ATR, SPY-DK, Captain, Ti UKPK, Mules

    *Landon*

  19. #99
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Clip's Avatar
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    Next up, the series on Lansky stones. I didn't quite know what I was looking at here, so I blundered through it until I found what I'm guessing is a diamond particle. This led me to assume that the diamond particles are embedded in a soft metal matrix that wears away to continually expose diamond.

    Here's the coarse stone. I took pictures all the way to 1000x before I realized that the little bit of reddish light must be reflecting back from a diamond, so the last picture is a detail.

    The details of these stones aren't as clear as I'd like, but I think they get better as I get to the finer grits.

    50x



    50x - unused portion at the end of the stone where the blade doesn't hit (guessing the metal matrix is covering the diamond here)



    100x - a good deal of red light here



    200x



    500x



    1000x



    200x - here's what caught my eye and what I'm guessing is a diamond particle half covered by the matrix, also a bluish green reflection could be a particle in another orientation

    Click here to zoom: Under the Microscope

    Manix2, Elmax MT13, M4 Manix2, ZDP Caly3, ZDP Caly Jr, SB Caly3.5, M390 Para2, Cruwear MT12, Techno, XHP MT16, South Fork, SB Caly3, Manix2 Ltwt, Salt I, 20CP Para2, Military Left Hand, Perrin PPT, Forum Native5, Squeak, Manix 83mm, 440V Military, Gayle Bradley, Swick3, Lil' Temperance, Cruwear Military, VG10 Jester, Terzuola SlipIt, XHP Native Ltwt, Domino, CPM154/S90V Para2, SB Stretch, D2 Para, Dfly2 Salt, Tasman Salt

    Chris

  20. #100
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Clip's Avatar
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    Lansky medium diamond stone

    50x



    100x



    200x



    500x - good shot of the diamond (with possible ZDP particles on the surface?! )



    1000x - two pictures here, one in focus and one out of focus as I attempted to show the prominence of the diamond. Hopefully this will give some sense of how much it was projecting above the surface.



    Click here to zoom: Under the Microscope

    Manix2, Elmax MT13, M4 Manix2, ZDP Caly3, ZDP Caly Jr, SB Caly3.5, M390 Para2, Cruwear MT12, Techno, XHP MT16, South Fork, SB Caly3, Manix2 Ltwt, Salt I, 20CP Para2, Military Left Hand, Perrin PPT, Forum Native5, Squeak, Manix 83mm, 440V Military, Gayle Bradley, Swick3, Lil' Temperance, Cruwear Military, VG10 Jester, Terzuola SlipIt, XHP Native Ltwt, Domino, CPM154/S90V Para2, SB Stretch, D2 Para, Dfly2 Salt, Tasman Salt

    Chris

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