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Thread: Under the microscope

  1. #1
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Clip's Avatar
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    Under the microscope

    Had some spare time at work this evening and threw my freshly sharpened Manix 2 under the microscope. I'd like to compare a factory-sharpened edge to get a good baseline of what laser-sharp looks like. My Elmax mule should be getting to UPS tomorrow so I'll have to look at that once it comes in.

    I used a Lansky diamond system to reprofile the edge of the blade I'm photographing now. From the factory it was slightly higher than the 17 degree setting on the sharpener. The opposite side matched 17 degrees well. I used coarse, medium and fine diamond stones with a quick finish with a black hard Arkansas hone (1200 grit, maybe?)

    Not sure how this could be useful other than looking at edge quality, but it's always fun seeing stuff larger than life

    1, 22 - Manix 2, 154CM, hollow ground and 17 Lansky-sharpened
    35 - Dodo, S30V, factory hollow ground
    43, 44 - Manix 2, M4, factory full flat ground
    45 - Mule MT13, Elmax, factory full flat ground
    68, 69 - Bark River Little Creek, A2, convex ground and touched up on the black and green strops
    83 - Manix 2, M4, Lansky diamond system and black and green strops, 17 and 20
    94, 95 - Washington state quarter
    96 - Caly3, ZDP189/420J2, flat ground, Lansky diamond system and black and green strops, 17
    97 - Caly3, ZDP189/420J2, same as above but with 25 micro bevel
    99 - Lansky coarse diamond stone
    100 - Lansky medium diamond stone
    101 - Lansky fine diamond stone
    102 - Lansky black hard Arkansas hone
    122 - Reynolds aluminum foil
    137 - Manix 2, 154CM, sharpened with Edge Pro Apex
    143 - Manix 2, 154CM, after cutting white pine and cardboard
    159 - Manix 2, 154CM, after cutting white pine and cardboard, edge-on view
    160 - Ritter RSK Mk1, M2HS, factory edge

    Here's a picture of the setup:



    The stereo microscope is 10-63x magnification with a B/W camera, and the metallograph to the left will go from 50-1000x. I really want to make a jig that'll hold the blade's edge parallel to the lens so I can get some closer pictures.

    Some pictures, starting at 10x:



    25x:



    40x:



    63x:



    It amazes me how bad little flaws look at 63x. Here's a good example:

    10x:



    63x:



    I did appreciate how the light found where my edge needed a little more work.




    Mods, not sure if this qualified as a general thread or should be in the pictures section. Please move if it belongs in the other!
    Last edited by Clip; 07-19-2012 at 05:00 PM. Reason: Updating table of contents, clickable links now
    Click here to zoom: Under the Microscope

    Manix2, Elmax MT13, M4 Manix2, ZDP Caly3, ZDP Caly Jr, SB Caly3.5, M390 Para2, Cruwear MT12, Techno, XHP MT16, South Fork, SB Caly3, Manix2 Ltwt, Salt I, 20CP Para2, Military Left Hand, Perrin PPT, Forum Native5, Squeak, Manix 83mm, 440V Military, Gayle Bradley, Swick3, Lil' Temperance, Cruwear Military, VG10 Jester, Terzuola SlipIt, XHP Native Ltwt, Domino, CPM154/S90V Para2, SB Stretch, D2 Para, Dfly2 Salt, Tasman Salt

    Chris

  2. #2
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Stuart Ackerman's Avatar
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    That is nice to see...I like to see magged knife edges...

    Have you access to a laser scanning confocal microscope?
    THEN, it becomes mind boggling...

  3. #3
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Donut's Avatar
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    That's awesome, thanks for sharing!
    -Brian
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  4. #4
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Clip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zackerty View Post
    That is nice to see...I like to see magged knife edges...

    Have you access to a laser scanning confocal microscope?
    THEN, it becomes mind boggling...
    Had to look that up. Impressive!

    The metallograph next to the stereoscope has the capability to show a little depth. I'll try to get pictures on that tomorrow.
    Click here to zoom: Under the Microscope

    Manix2, Elmax MT13, M4 Manix2, ZDP Caly3, ZDP Caly Jr, SB Caly3.5, M390 Para2, Cruwear MT12, Techno, XHP MT16, South Fork, SB Caly3, Manix2 Ltwt, Salt I, 20CP Para2, Military Left Hand, Perrin PPT, Forum Native5, Squeak, Manix 83mm, 440V Military, Gayle Bradley, Swick3, Lil' Temperance, Cruwear Military, VG10 Jester, Terzuola SlipIt, XHP Native Ltwt, Domino, CPM154/S90V Para2, SB Stretch, D2 Para, Dfly2 Salt, Tasman Salt

    Chris

  5. #5
    Spyderco Forum Registered User
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    I was impressed. Interesting; thanx.
    Sonny

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    Spyderco Forum Registered User Cheddarnut's Avatar
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    Yep, cool beans.
    I collect knives, my knives collect dust.

  7. #7
    Spyderco Forum Registered User
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    Impressive. Thanks for taking the time to do this and sharing with us.
    Centofante3 (C66PBK3), ParaMilitary2 (C81GPCMO), Endura4 (C10P), GrassHopper (C138P), Military (C36GPCMO), Perrin PPT (C135GP), Squeak (C154PBK), Dragonfly 2 Salt (C28PYL2), Military M390 CF (C36CFM390P), R (C67GF), ParaMilitary2 CTS-XHP (C81GPOR2), Tuff (C151GTIP), Ladybug & Perrin Street Bowie (FB04PBB)being the newest.

  8. #8
    Spyderco Forum Registered User jhyde7585's Avatar
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    Very cool pics, interesting to see the inner working of an edge and the steel

  9. #9
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Tdog's Avatar
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    Thanks for sharing. I haven't been using my loupe much lately. This really confirms the need to take a closer look at things. Appreciate it. Normally not up at this hour on weekdays, glad to see the Gators win
    Last edited by Tdog; 03-22-2012 at 11:13 PM.

  10. #10
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Watcher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donut View Post
    That's awesome, thanks for sharing!
    +1
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    Spyderco Forum Registered User
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    Yea, that's awesome stuff. Like to see more.

  12. #12
    Spyderco Forum Registered User phillipsted's Avatar
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    Great stuff, Clip. My little handheld USB scope doesn't hold a candle to your unit. Really nice, crisp photos.

    TedP
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  13. #13
    Spyderco Forum Registered User SolidState's Avatar
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    I'm really interested to see what you see on that factory edge for comparison. Keep up the science!
    "Nothing is so fatal to the progress of the human mind as to suppose that our views of science are ultimate; that there are no mysteries in nature; that our triumphs are complete, and that there are no new worlds to conquer."
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  14. #14
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    Thanks for posting, that is interesting. I have a 10x loupe, but even with all my room lights on my eyes don't have enough depth-of-field to really have the whole edge in focus at once. I've seriously thought about purchasing one of those Celestron digital microscopes, but it's hard to justify the cost (and space of where to put it!) since I'd really only use it to look at my knife edges, and maybe the occasional butterfly wing. i may yet get one though! Thanks for the pictures.
    Which Knife, A or B? get Both! (and C, D and E)

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    Spyderco Forum Registered User hiredgun's Avatar
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    Spyderco + Science. I love it! Thanks for sharing the pics.
    You can't display a toad in a fine restaurant like this! Why, the good folks here would go right off the feed!

  16. #16
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Clip's Avatar
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    You guys are in for a treat! Got the Manix on the metallograph just a few mintues ago and was able to get pictures from 50-1000x. It's gonna take me a little while to (figure out how to) process the 500x and 1000x ones as the depth of field is crazy thin. I took several pictures and believe the software I'm using can layer them. If not, I'll try it another way. They should be up this evening, so look for 'em.

    Also, MT13 is sitting at UPS waiting for me to pick it up. I'll try to grab it here in a little and grab pictures so I don't have to wait for Monday.
    Click here to zoom: Under the Microscope

    Manix2, Elmax MT13, M4 Manix2, ZDP Caly3, ZDP Caly Jr, SB Caly3.5, M390 Para2, Cruwear MT12, Techno, XHP MT16, South Fork, SB Caly3, Manix2 Ltwt, Salt I, 20CP Para2, Military Left Hand, Perrin PPT, Forum Native5, Squeak, Manix 83mm, 440V Military, Gayle Bradley, Swick3, Lil' Temperance, Cruwear Military, VG10 Jester, Terzuola SlipIt, XHP Native Ltwt, Domino, CPM154/S90V Para2, SB Stretch, D2 Para, Dfly2 Salt, Tasman Salt

    Chris

  17. #17
    Spyderco Forum Registered User JAfromMN's Avatar
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    Very Cool Pic's

    Thanks for doing this thread Chris it's fun to learn
    My favorite Spyderco is the one that I used the most Today

    Black Native fs,Delica 4 fs,ZDP 189 Endura fs, Manix 2 XL ,Pegasus ss fs,Endura 3 ss fs,Endura 4 ffg, 701 mf, Spyderwrench, Dyad Jr, manix 2 lwt

  18. #18
    Spyderco Forum Registered User
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    It's too bad light stops being useful for imagery beyond this. Apparently darkfield microscopes aren't that expensive, I've got a real bad itch to try one out.

    I can't wait for people to start selling electron scanning microscopes online.

  19. #19
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Clip's Avatar
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    Good news: Found out how to take a multi-layer grab from the microscope, so now DOF isn't an issue (razor sharp!)

    Bad news: Wasn't able to find the exact location of the previous 50x and 100x pictures, so the ones at 200, 500, and 1000x are going to be at different points on the blade. All this means is you won't be able to see features you notice from 50 and 100x at closer mags. Shouldn't (won't) be a problem on the MT13, I'll be better equipped to get pics of that one. Another downer: can't get to UPS til after work today to get the MT13 so you guys will have to check in Monday for factory edge pics.
    Click here to zoom: Under the Microscope

    Manix2, Elmax MT13, M4 Manix2, ZDP Caly3, ZDP Caly Jr, SB Caly3.5, M390 Para2, Cruwear MT12, Techno, XHP MT16, South Fork, SB Caly3, Manix2 Ltwt, Salt I, 20CP Para2, Military Left Hand, Perrin PPT, Forum Native5, Squeak, Manix 83mm, 440V Military, Gayle Bradley, Swick3, Lil' Temperance, Cruwear Military, VG10 Jester, Terzuola SlipIt, XHP Native Ltwt, Domino, CPM154/S90V Para2, SB Stretch, D2 Para, Dfly2 Salt, Tasman Salt

    Chris

  20. #20
    Spyderco Forum Registered User
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    Nice, yup the dreaded micro chips. Virtuovice on youtube checks is edges with a microscope, although his setup is a bit more crude. He just has a nikon field microscope with a camcorder attached to it. Gets the job done though. I think his magnifications are around 60 something. I guess 60-100.
    Manix 2 DLC, Delica 4 FFG, Ladybug 3,County Comm H1 Ladybug 3 , Endura 4 FFG G10, C94 UKPK Leaf, Atlantic Salt, Military Camo DLC,Sage 1 Para 2 DLC, Delica 4.

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