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Thread: Under the microscope

  1. #141
    Spyderco Forum Registered User
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    Thanks for your posts Chris. That is really neat what you can do with that microscope. I hate to ask, what does retail normally run for a microscope like you are using? Probably not something a "hobbyist" can afford to buy .
    Which Knife, A or B? get Both! (and C, D and E)

  2. #142
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Clip's Avatar
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    I can't find any information on pricing, but looks like older models from the 70s-80s are going for $3-5k. I'd think this one is in the same range, not counting the light source, camera or software used to collect the data.
    Click here to zoom: Under the Microscope

    Manix2, Elmax MT13, M4 Manix2, ZDP Caly3, ZDP Caly Jr, SB Caly3.5, M390 Para2, Cruwear MT12, Techno, XHP MT16, South Fork, SB Caly3, Manix2 Ltwt, Salt I, 20CP Para2, Military Left Hand, Perrin PPT, Forum Native5, Squeak, Manix 83mm, 440V Military, Gayle Bradley, Swick3, Lil' Temperance, Cruwear Military, VG10 Jester, Terzuola SlipIt, XHP Native Ltwt, Domino, CPM154/S90V Para2, SB Stretch, D2 Para, Dfly2 Salt, Tasman Salt

    Chris

  3. #143
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Clip's Avatar
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    Cut a good ways through some pallet planks (rough white pine) and sliced a few square feet of cardboard into extremely thin strips with the 154CM Manix2 today, and here is the resulting damage to the blade. I wasn't being easy on it either, using a good bit of force and twisting on the pallet trying to get the edge to deform with lateral loading.

    50x



    100x - detail from the above, looks like there might be a small inclusion as well



    50x



    100x



    100x



    100x

    Last edited by Clip; 07-11-2012 at 07:37 PM.
    Click here to zoom: Under the Microscope

    Manix2, Elmax MT13, M4 Manix2, ZDP Caly3, ZDP Caly Jr, SB Caly3.5, M390 Para2, Cruwear MT12, Techno, XHP MT16, South Fork, SB Caly3, Manix2 Ltwt, Salt I, 20CP Para2, Military Left Hand, Perrin PPT, Forum Native5, Squeak, Manix 83mm, 440V Military, Gayle Bradley, Swick3, Lil' Temperance, Cruwear Military, VG10 Jester, Terzuola SlipIt, XHP Native Ltwt, Domino, CPM154/S90V Para2, SB Stretch, D2 Para, Dfly2 Salt, Tasman Salt

    Chris

  4. #144
    Spyderco Forum Registered User phillipsted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clip View Post
    Cut a good ways through some pallet planks (rough white pine) and sliced a few square feet of cardboard into extremely thin strips with the 154CM Manix2 today, and here is the resulting damage to the blade. I wasn't being easy on it either, using a good bit of force and twisting on the pallet trying to get the edge to deform with lateral loading.
    Sounds like you were having a bit of fun, Chris!

    Thanks for the pics. Very interesting and educational as usual.

    TedP

  5. #145
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    You've got some really cool toys at work. Great pics and info!
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  6. #146
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Holland's Avatar
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    this thread is amazing, thanks for putting in the time to do this
    Phil Wilson Smoke Creek s110v, SouthFork, Gayle Bradley, Chaparral 1, Chaparral 2, Native 5, Para2, Para1 SE, Caly 3, Dragonfly 2, Dragonfly 2, Delica 4, Ladybug 3


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  7. #147
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Toddles's Avatar
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    I love this thread so very much.
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  8. #148
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Splice's Avatar
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    I have nothing to add other than that this is really really cool. I've learned a lot about edges here!

  9. #149
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    Hi Clip,

    Wow, wonderful new pictures!

    A couple of questions:
    (1) What is a "Nomarski prism" ? Is that a conversion from bright-field imaging to dark-field imaging?
    (2) For very high magnification, are you using immersion-oil between the microscope objective and the sample?

    Sincerely,
    --Lagrangian
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    "What grit sharpens the mind?"
    --Zen Sharpening Koan

  10. #150
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Clip's Avatar
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    Thanks guys!

    Lag, I believe it's a way to polarize the incoming light to create contrast where there is little to none. After a quick search, Wikipedia brought this which looks like the setup I'm using. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differe...ast_microscopy

    And at all magnifications, everything is dry. In school we used the oil immersion technique with an older microscope, but as this one's oriented so the lenses are looking upwards and the table sits the sample upside-down on top of the lens I imagine it'd be messy if not impossible to use that method. We did get some sharp pictures that way, though.
    Click here to zoom: Under the Microscope

    Manix2, Elmax MT13, M4 Manix2, ZDP Caly3, ZDP Caly Jr, SB Caly3.5, M390 Para2, Cruwear MT12, Techno, XHP MT16, South Fork, SB Caly3, Manix2 Ltwt, Salt I, 20CP Para2, Military Left Hand, Perrin PPT, Forum Native5, Squeak, Manix 83mm, 440V Military, Gayle Bradley, Swick3, Lil' Temperance, Cruwear Military, VG10 Jester, Terzuola SlipIt, XHP Native Ltwt, Domino, CPM154/S90V Para2, SB Stretch, D2 Para, Dfly2 Salt, Tasman Salt

    Chris

  11. #151
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    Very impressive pictures, Clip!
    I especially like the almost-torn-off piece of metal on the last one.

    Could you possibly add some edge-on pictures of damaged/used edges, please? These should be really interesting.
    'I ought never to act except in such a way that I can also will that my maxim should become a universal law.'

  12. #152
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Clip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by connor View Post
    Very impressive pictures, Clip!
    I especially like the almost-torn-off piece of metal on the last one.

    Could you possibly add some edge-on pictures of damaged/used edges, please? These should be really interesting.

    I saw some edge damage near the tip, and decided to start photographing there. From that damage, I panned in the direction of the ricasso/handle and took micros of the bad sites. That last one surprised me, I'm not sure if it tore up at the bright spot and continued left, or if that's rolled directly towards or away from the lens to make it look like it's missing. Either way, that was a bad one. I was planning on sharpening that blade tonight, but it's no trouble at all to try and get some edge-on pictures of the damage to try and get the chips/rolls from another angle. It'll probably be Wednesday though before I get another chance.
    Click here to zoom: Under the Microscope

    Manix2, Elmax MT13, M4 Manix2, ZDP Caly3, ZDP Caly Jr, SB Caly3.5, M390 Para2, Cruwear MT12, Techno, XHP MT16, South Fork, SB Caly3, Manix2 Ltwt, Salt I, 20CP Para2, Military Left Hand, Perrin PPT, Forum Native5, Squeak, Manix 83mm, 440V Military, Gayle Bradley, Swick3, Lil' Temperance, Cruwear Military, VG10 Jester, Terzuola SlipIt, XHP Native Ltwt, Domino, CPM154/S90V Para2, SB Stretch, D2 Para, Dfly2 Salt, Tasman Salt

    Chris

  13. #153
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    If the edge doesn't look spectacular enough, you could do one or two light 90 cuts into a sharpening stone. This should certainly mess it up properly for our microscopic viewing pleasure. :-)
    'I ought never to act except in such a way that I can also will that my maxim should become a universal law.'

  14. #154
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Clip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by connor View Post
    If the edge doesn't look spectacular enough, you could do one or two light 90 cuts into a sharpening stone. This should certainly mess it up properly for our microscopic viewing pleasure. :-)
    Maybe I'll see how it handles cutting some of our 70 HRC hardfacing
    Click here to zoom: Under the Microscope

    Manix2, Elmax MT13, M4 Manix2, ZDP Caly3, ZDP Caly Jr, SB Caly3.5, M390 Para2, Cruwear MT12, Techno, XHP MT16, South Fork, SB Caly3, Manix2 Ltwt, Salt I, 20CP Para2, Military Left Hand, Perrin PPT, Forum Native5, Squeak, Manix 83mm, 440V Military, Gayle Bradley, Swick3, Lil' Temperance, Cruwear Military, VG10 Jester, Terzuola SlipIt, XHP Native Ltwt, Domino, CPM154/S90V Para2, SB Stretch, D2 Para, Dfly2 Salt, Tasman Salt

    Chris

  15. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clip View Post
    Thanks guys!

    Lag, I believe it's a way to polarize the incoming light to create contrast where there is little to none. After a quick search, Wikipedia brought this which looks like the setup I'm using. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differe...ast_microscopy

    And at all magnifications, everything is dry. In school we used the oil immersion technique with an older microscope, but as this one's oriented so the lenses are looking upwards and the table sits the sample upside-down on top of the lens I imagine it'd be messy if not impossible to use that method. We did get some sharp pictures that way, though.
    Hi Clip,

    Thanks!

    Sincerely,
    --Lagrangian
    --------------------------------
    "What grit sharpens the mind?"
    --Zen Sharpening Koan

  16. #156
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Donut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clip View Post
    100x
    Wow, these pictures are great. I think we can see the carbides! Look at the edge and how many carbides we are seeing where there is wear. The carbides are definitely helping to stop it from wearing.
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  17. #157
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Clip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donut View Post
    Wow, these pictures are great. I think we can see the carbides! Look at the edge and how many carbides we are seeing where there is wear. The carbides are definitely helping to stop it from wearing.
    Donut, if you're talking about those spots on the very edge fading into the background, I think those are just artifacts produced by the software as I take a multi-layer image (noticed it heavily in the 1000x and sometimes 500x images). From the chemistry, 1 C and 14 Cr, there should only be chrome carbides and they appear acicular/needle-like or hexagonal when in a properly polished sample. At those low levels of carbon and chrome, 154CM shouldn't be showing any large formations of chrome carbides. Since this isn't polished to the extent we prepare other samples I can't say for certain that those raised spots in the micros are carbides, but I believe them to be carbide-rich areas.

    Here's what I typically see when I'm looking at samples, but the page said that deposit was 4.8C and 32Cr, which is a very rich deposit. We also see these results with quite a bit less of each element:


    http://www.kubesalloys.com/?page_id=282
    Last edited by Clip; 07-15-2012 at 12:31 PM. Reason: added micro
    Click here to zoom: Under the Microscope

    Manix2, Elmax MT13, M4 Manix2, ZDP Caly3, ZDP Caly Jr, SB Caly3.5, M390 Para2, Cruwear MT12, Techno, XHP MT16, South Fork, SB Caly3, Manix2 Ltwt, Salt I, 20CP Para2, Military Left Hand, Perrin PPT, Forum Native5, Squeak, Manix 83mm, 440V Military, Gayle Bradley, Swick3, Lil' Temperance, Cruwear Military, VG10 Jester, Terzuola SlipIt, XHP Native Ltwt, Domino, CPM154/S90V Para2, SB Stretch, D2 Para, Dfly2 Salt, Tasman Salt

    Chris

  18. #158
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Donut's Avatar
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    Ah, okay, that sounds reasonable. Thanks.
    -Brian
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  19. #159
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Clip's Avatar
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    More of the 154CM Manix2! I turned my light source all the way up, took the aperture to wide-open and was able to throw enough light to get some good pictures. This is the same edge as in post 143, just from a different angle.

    100x - I think this might be a different view of the last picture in post 143



    200x of above



    100x



    100x



    200x of above



    100x - decent edge



    200x of above

    Last edited by Clip; 07-19-2012 at 04:58 PM.
    Click here to zoom: Under the Microscope

    Manix2, Elmax MT13, M4 Manix2, ZDP Caly3, ZDP Caly Jr, SB Caly3.5, M390 Para2, Cruwear MT12, Techno, XHP MT16, South Fork, SB Caly3, Manix2 Ltwt, Salt I, 20CP Para2, Military Left Hand, Perrin PPT, Forum Native5, Squeak, Manix 83mm, 440V Military, Gayle Bradley, Swick3, Lil' Temperance, Cruwear Military, VG10 Jester, Terzuola SlipIt, XHP Native Ltwt, Domino, CPM154/S90V Para2, SB Stretch, D2 Para, Dfly2 Salt, Tasman Salt

    Chris

  20. #160
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Clip's Avatar
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    Benchmade/Doug Ritter RSK Mk1. M2HS steel with factory grind. Due to the blade shape I couldn't get the microscope to focus at 500x or 1000x.

    50x



    100x



    200x

    Click here to zoom: Under the Microscope

    Manix2, Elmax MT13, M4 Manix2, ZDP Caly3, ZDP Caly Jr, SB Caly3.5, M390 Para2, Cruwear MT12, Techno, XHP MT16, South Fork, SB Caly3, Manix2 Ltwt, Salt I, 20CP Para2, Military Left Hand, Perrin PPT, Forum Native5, Squeak, Manix 83mm, 440V Military, Gayle Bradley, Swick3, Lil' Temperance, Cruwear Military, VG10 Jester, Terzuola SlipIt, XHP Native Ltwt, Domino, CPM154/S90V Para2, SB Stretch, D2 Para, Dfly2 Salt, Tasman Salt

    Chris

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