Stainless, Stain-more, Stain-lead...

[JNewell]

So, we all know that stainless is almost always only stain-resistant.

What do we know about the quality of stainless from unknown sources?

Example: an 18/8 (or so it says on the bottom, right next to "India") bathroom cup that rusts like mad. Unexpected, no?

Another question along the same line: what are the possibilities for heavy metal contamination (lead, cadmium, who knows what else) in "stainless steel" that is sourced from overseas manufacturers? Does the alloying process guarantee that lead would essentially vaporize? What about other potentially toxic metals?

I've spent a lot of time Googling the second question and am not finding any answers...figure one of you all might know more...thanks!

John

[defenestrate]

I've heard numerous reports about lead in some Chinese steels, but no reports of the content causing anywhere near the concern of leaded paint. Lead was used or found in steels for years and will not evaporate but seems to mostly form grain boundaries, which actually resulted in easier machining. I would consider the chances of lead being in most of the steels in Spyderco knives to be very low, but I managed to fragment a really cheap Chinese axe head due to lousy heat treat and what looks like lead. haven't taken a torch to verify but I likely will now that you've got me thinking about it.

[The Deacon]

Think it would be a non-issue with blade steels, even on kitchen knives, since contact with food is generally momentary and minimal. If it were an issue with anything, it would be things like cookware, pitchers, bowls, and water bottles.

[Gunslinger]

F.Y.I Stainless steel is called stainless because it stains less.

[The Deacon]

FWIW, chromium and some of the other ingredients normally found in stainless steel have melting points higher than the boiling point of lead.

[JNewell]

My concern is not blade steels at all but items used for food and drink (such as the ubiquitous stainless water bottles now in vogue).

[phillipsted]

I remember a few years ago reading an article about folks who store their whiskey in fancy lead-glass crystal decanters. Evidently, some of the lead leaches out of the crystal and into the liquid when stored for a long time (years). Not that I ever keep whiskey around that long... but I'm just sayin'... you gotta be careful!

[NYRich]

I can understand your concern about items imported from China containing lead. Personally I will not buy dinnerware/glassware made in China for that very reason. Maybe it's odd, but the possibility of lead from "china" made in "China" causes me more worry than what might be trace amounts in stainless steel from that country. Whatever trace amounts may be ingested from eating three meals a day off Chinese dinnerware likely far outweighs what most knife owners would be exposed to in a lifetime of normal use. None of my kitchen knives are from China, but that's more by chance than by design.

Perhaps those who make knives using Chinese steel should be concerned as they are more likely to be exposed to residue from grinding or heat treating than the guy who simply cares a Tenacious.

What might be of as much concern (but doesn't get nearly the press) is hexavalent chromium which is used in the production of stainless steel (right here in the U.S.). Again, it's highly unlikely that any of us will receive toxic amounts from simply handling our knives, but I would hope that those who make there own blades take the proper precautions. The E.U places restrictions on this stuff far in excess of those in place in the United States.

[Blerv]

It's a matter of how much exposure/ingestion is necessary for anything to happen.

Most water that came from old drinking fountains has traces of cyanide and lead. I don't want to even know what's in generic hot dogs. The sun is full of radiation, etc.

[SolidState]

If you really need to know if a solid has lead in it, us an electron microprobe to analyze the x-ray signals coming out. You should get pretty good accuracy from that method, but it will cost you money. Science ain't cheap, but technology doesn't come from anything else really.

The kind of poisoning that WE plastic bags of rocks and water generally should be worried about is more subtle in my opinion.

Heavy metal is rarely subtle, but plastic has subtlety in the bag.

I wouldn't worry about it jumping out of chromed steel or iron knives at you, especially shiny ones. Tarnished is testing your luck, but unless you're doing solution work with it, it's not going anywhere in more than ppm. There is far more lead in conjugated, reacted and relatively unstable compounds in virtually all of your piezoelectric devices. Look up PZT. I'm not against it, but it's everywhere.

In reality, the fact that we use coal power gives you more lead than virtually anything else in your environment, pretty much unless you work in a lead mine. The majority of our uranium poisoning comes from coal as well, unless we live on a dumping site.

Blerv is totally right, it's about amount, and tolerance.

I think it's about money, regulation and scientific illiteracy. Nobody cares to read the report so nobody wants to pay for the report. Nobody reads the report so nobody cares about what it says if the study has been done. We just want cheap new widgets and medicines; how we got the widget or medicine is irrelevant. That's how things work around here. You would be saddened to learn how many people died from radiation while trying to figure out cathode ray tubes before televisions.

Also, we live in a culture in which death is no longer the default terminus of life for some reason. People have to have a reason to die. 100 years ago, most people just died of natural causes because nature causes death. Nature has lots of turnover and we no longer do because of science.

[The Deacon]

I remember a few years ago reading an article about folks who store their whiskey in fancy lead-glass crystal decanters. Evidently, some of the lead leaches out of the crystal and into the liquid when stored for a long time (years). Not that I ever keep whiskey around that long... but I'm just sayin'... you gotta be careful!

Plants absorb metals from the soil, and I'm sure they leach out more easily than those in glass or steel. Could be wrong, but I'd be more inclined to attribute any lead found in decent whiskey to the grains it's made from and the barrels it's aged in than to storage in a lead crystal decanter.

It's funny how we tend to worry more about minor sources than major ones. Even with a great ventilation system, we probably ingest more lead in one session at an indoor shooting range than we'd get from a water bottle in a lifetime. Not to mention the lead any of us who live or work in a building more than 50 years old get every day from the soldered joints in copper pipes that carry the water we drink and cook with. Plus, it takes quite a bit of lead to have any harmful effect. The only cases of lead poisoning I've ever seen were in kids who chewed on things painted with lead based paint, workers who inhaled fumes from soldering day in and day out for years, and auto mechanics who cleaned parts in gasoline bare handed back in the days of leaded gas.

[JNewell]

It's funny how we tend to worry more about minor sources than major ones. Even with a great ventilation system, we probably ingest more lead in one session at an indoor shooting range than we'd get from a water bottle in a lifetime. Not to mention the lead any of us who live or work in a building more than 50 years old get every day from the soldered joints in copper pipes that carry the water we drink and cook with.

In reality, the fact that we use coal power gives you more lead than virtually anything else in your environment, pretty much unless you work in a lead mine. The majority of our uranium poisoning comes from coal as well, unless we live on a dumping site.

I think you're both making a really good point there - but I've appreciated all the posts. Good stuff, and thanks!

John