BladeSports International needs you!

[Jose Diaz]

Recently, I had spoken to Ed Fowler about cutting competitions. We were discussing knife design, and that these knives are purpose driven tools. As the conversation flowed, he said to me: “You know, this is the only sport for knife enthusists.”

This struck me, though I already knew this. Swords have a sport-fencing, Spears have a sport-the javelin, axes have a sport-lumberjack sports, Tomahawk guys have well, you know, Tomahawk throwing. You get the idea.

BladeSports is the first knife enthusiast’s support. So, I am asking, why is it not more popular? One reason, I think it is, is that no one really knows about it. Cutting competitions have only been featured at knife shows, and knife specific events. So unless you are attending an event on the day that a cutting competition is featured, it’s possible that you may never have heard of such a thing.

The feedback I have received from individuals who have watched an event is very positive. People really seem to enjoy watching us hack away at 2x4s, water bottles, and golf balls. As a knife maker, I have sold many knives as a direct result of individuals watching a cutting competition.

I can also say that I have learned a ton about knife making and knife design as well as edge geometry and sharpening from participating In this sport. There are huge advantages to abusing a knife in such a way. Knife failures and successes are great information to gain, not to mention the notoriety from participating. Knife publications like Blade Magazine and Tactical Knifes Magazine have featured articles about our exploits. I can personally say that I have enjoyed seeing my name published in these internationally recognized publications.

What I am asking for in this post is feedback. I need to know what we can do to make this sport more accessible and popular amongst knife enthusiasts. I am also hoping for feedback from knife makers, as the most crucial research and development comes from those who make knives. What can we do as an organization to encourage more makers to get involved?

NASCAR and cage sports enjoys a huge following. Those who enjoy watching those sports without directly participating in them. What can we do to develop more of a fan base?

We are also looking for ways to encourage more sponsorship from knife manufacturers. Presently, the cost for sponsorship is $900 per year. This is not a very large amount for a lot of advertisement. Our sponsors enjoy 2 large banners, the ability to sponsor 2 competitors (who will wear anything that a sponsor will give them), a significant presence on the BladeSports International website, and with the partnership of BladeSports and all of our knowledge about competition knives (read free R&D) the ability to create a production competition knife of their own for sale. Benchmade has taken advantage of this collaboration process to make the Benchmade 171. The Browning Crowell/Barker knife is another example.

What more can we offer knife companies, and knife related businesses to participate? This is not a rhetorical question. I really want to know what BladeSports can offer to businesses to encourage them to participate. So far Benchmade, Spyderco, Peters Heat Treating, DMT, Mantis Knives, and a few small businesses are participating. Sponsorship helps our organization financially. As we are a nonprofit, all sponsorship is tax deductible. The funds we obtain are used for running of our organization, funding of our website, putting on events, holding educational schools, and finally redistributing funding towards charity. Our board is composed completely of volunteers. Speaking as the executive director, I have never received a penny from BladeSports. In contrast, I know that I have donated both time and money toward a sport I enjoy and believe in.

I believe that BladeSports International is not just a passing phase. I have hopes and dreams that this sport will be just as popular as NASCAR, cage fighting, and baseball. Through hard work, support of our fans, and help from the sponsors this dream is possible. An example of our growth is the participation of affiliate organizations in the Netherlands, Australia, and the UK. Recently we have been approached by groups from Brazil and Italy.

We are growing, but to my eye not fast enough. What do you think we should do?

[unit]

I have a lot of ideas, but they may be a little wacky. Perhaps I will give you a call or PM to discuss some of these?

[psychophipps]

Well, the sticker shock hits a lot of folks. There are exactly two production competition blades that I am aware of and the price is at $500 for the one with a confirmed steel type from the manufacturer...for a knife that is really only good for one thing. Customs only go up from there, I'm sure.

[Jose Diaz]

I have a lot of ideas, but they may be a little wacky. Perhaps I will give you a call or PM to discuss some of these?

Wacky is fine, but if you want, PM away.

Well, the sticker shock hits a lot of folks. There are exactly two production competition blades that I am aware of and the price is at $500 for the one with a confirmed steel type from the manufacturer...for a knife that is really only good for one thing. Customs only go up from there, I'm sure.

I certainly understand your concern. A little known fact is that knives are provided at cutting competitions and schools, free of charge. I have also seen, and have myself given knives to individuals who show particular interest in the sport.

We want people to participate, and we will put a knife in your hand and give you training to get this accomplished. Accessibility to this sport is something we are striving to do.

[unit]

I think the key is to get more spectators...and everything else should follow. Sponsors will support if there is opportunity for them to benefit.

Look at what a BladeSports event is (from the eyes of a person that has never attended one)...it is any of the videos that get shared on these forums...generally a big person with a big (highly specialized) knife flailing about in a timed event. As utterly awesome as that is to me, many people can not relate to this at all, and they will not travel to see it. There are only so many "knife guys" out there and fans of big fixed blades/choppers are only subset of that group.

We generally cannot buy these blades, and unless we are going to be a cutter, why would we? Not exactly, "win on Sunday, sell on Monday" is it?

If there was a way to gear a competition to average guys, it might be more appealing...sort of like the stock saw competition in lumberjack competitions.

How about adding a second course to be completed with a stock folder provided by the event sponsor? Perhaps Spyderco could sponsor an event and the second course would be a series of tasks that must be performed with a stock/factory fresh Military...or Delica...or whatever. Obviously the tasks would be different from many of the typical BladeSports cuts.

I think that people would be impressed to see a production folder cut a hanging rope, slice rings off a foam tube supported by a spring, cut rings out of a cardboard tube, slice a piece of rolled up paper standing on end and not supported, split and cut some straws, and slice a page hanging only from a single cloths pin. Especially if afterward you show them that it would still shave....and they could own this and carry it every day! This would be challenging to the cutters too!!!

If that sponsor were willing to send a rep there with some examples of the knife used, and host a clinic...it could be cool for EVERYONE. Imagine a Spyderco/Benchmade/Mantis rep with a pile of knives on display, and perhaps a class on how to sharpen? I think that would sell some product to the target audience...(all "knife guys" need to deal with sharpening some how)

Perhaps the sponsors are not yet willing to rain money on BladeSports, but you guys (the cutters) know a thing or two about making knives. You could host a few sharpening clinics at these events and see if there is interest...the volume of sharpening discussion on these forums is amazing, I can not help but think a buzz could be generated by a few people truthfully claiming to have had sharpening revelations at hands-on clinics hosted by pros like you guys.

That is the short version (I have lots of wacky ideas). I like BladeSports and would love to be able to attend more...but I cannot travel more than a 3-5 hours. This means I need it to get more popular so they can have more events in my area!

[Jose Diaz]

Unit,
As time goes on, I am happy to see the momentum that Youtube videos have done for our notoriety. I hope that with time, we will have more professional looking video with better accessible content. We will certainly be working on that aspect.

I thank you for your ideas and maybe they are not as wacky as you think they are. Sometimes the only bad ideas are the ones you don't hear.

Competition cutters are expensive. But truly most are as attainable a some of the more expensive Spydercos. I'm not only looking for a way to make cutting, but being a fan for cutting. (not everyone who loves NASCAR can own a racing car).

I really like the idea of opening up a different folding knife category for BladeSports. I had a similar discussion about 2 years ago with someone on a different forum about this very subject. I once even had a discussion about this with Jens Anso. He told me that when there was a folding knife category, he would be all over BladeSports. Maybe something our bBoard should visit?

Keep the ideas coming.

[Donut]

So, if I donate $900, I can have advertising that "Jose Diaz is The Man (in pink)"?

[Jose Diaz]

So, if I donate $900, I can have advertising that "Jose Diaz is The Man (in pink)"?

Yup.

[Donut]

Okay, I read through the thread. I've watched a few of these competitions, and I don't know anything about them. I know guys with big knives run around and cut a bunch of stuff, but the scoring must be too complicated for me to understand.

Maybe that there is a lack of a scoreboard and announcers, but I see people cutting a bunch of stuff and a timer. At the end, I might as well toss a coin to figure out who won.

I don't know anything about the sport, and I'm somewhat interested, but I have no idea how to figure out who wins.

I don't know if you need to simplify the sport, but maybe you could add some competitions where the winner is more obvious. In my opinion, it is difficult to watch because I don't know what is going on. Maybe separate the competitions to make it easier to learn the rules.

Lumberjack competitions are easy to watch, I don't know anything about them, but I know the person who finishes first wins. They do gladiator style stuff and that's easy to see who wins and it's always head to head, which makes it more exciting.

That is my input.

[Jose Diaz]

Okay, I read through the thread. I've watched a few of these competitions, and I don't know anything about them. I know guys with big knives run around and cut a bunch of stuff, but the scoring must be too complicated for me to understand.

Maybe that there is a lack of a scoreboard and announcers, but I see people cutting a bunch of stuff and a timer. At the end, I might as well toss a coin to figure out who won.

I don't know anything about the sport, and I'm somewhat interested, but I have no idea how to figure out who wins.

I don't know if you need to simplify the sport, but maybe you could add some competitions where the winner is more obvious. In my opinion, it is difficult to watch because I don't know what is going on. Maybe separate the competitions to make it easier to learn the rules.

Lumberjack competitions are easy to watch, I don't know anything about them, but I know the person who finishes first wins. They do gladiator style stuff and that's easy to see who wins and it's always head to head, which makes it more exciting.

Scoring is as follows:
Each station is worth a set amount of points. Points are accumulated then added up. The coarse is timed. The formula for the score is time in seconds+100 subtracted from the points earned. The lowest score wins.

I agree, a score board and better video explanation of the event would improve better understanding. We will work on that.

We have tried head to head events and the ones that work out well are the 2x4 and 2x6 cut-offs, where two competitors are cutting the ends of the 2x4 or 2x6 at the same time. We've been using a single elimination random draw system. I'm hoping to incorporate more of these into the competitions.

The problem with doing head to head (2 cutters at the same time) coarse events, is that we rarely have enough space of tables to accommodate this format. maybe in the future we might.

I will make a better effort in the next year to have a more clear explanation about the sport and how scoring works. Thanks for the suggestion.

[SQSAR]

I've watched Bladesport videos on YouTube and think I think it looks like a lot of fun. I'd like to look into competing myself, but when I checked it out here's what I found: (Paraphrasing my general impressions of the rules/regs I discovered when reading the Bladesport web-site)

1,There aren't a whole lot of competitions around, so you will likely have to travel a very long way to compete, or even watch, one. 2, There is a bit of 'training' required prior to competing, and this 'training' is equally as scattered about the country. So unless you happen to be near a competition or a "certified coach" then you are out of luck. 3, Even if you can make a blade you think is suitable (which I can) there is still a certification process to have your blade blessed by the Bladesport folks, and then still the additional training requirement for you to personally use it. 4, Finally, as has already been stated there are practically (or effectively) no blades commercially produced for people to buy. Yeah, the Benchmade looks cool, but that much money for a blade you would have to travel half way across the country to use, , ,not a good return on investment.

However, to save someone some time in responding to the aforementioned paragraph: I understand there are probably rules and regs in place for a reason that most likely resides in liability. Ok, cool, but that doesn't negate the fact that these strict regulations, when coupled with the scarcity of competitions, pretty much stifles any substantive growth of the sport. No growth equals no additional competitions, , and the cyclical nature of the organization's dilemma is completed.

I'm all about going to any Bladesport even that comes to Colorado, and IIRC there is one coming to Golden. Guaranty you I will be there, , , , but I'm not going to drive to, say, Texas for a one day event. Unit's 'stock folder' category would be a SWEET idea, and I'd be all over that just to test my sharpening skills. Maybe an idea of an abbreviated training in the mornings and the competitions in the afternoon. Who knows.

[Jose Diaz]

1,There aren't a whole lot of competitions around, so you will likely have to travel a very long way to compete, or even watch, one.

We have been adding, per year 1-2 competitions. To qualify for the US National championship, one needs only to attend a minimum of 4 competitions.

2, There is a bit of 'training' required prior to competing, and this 'training' is equally as scattered about the country. So unless you happen to be near a competition or a "certified coach" then you are out of luck.

As you have stated, the training is required for safety purposes. BladeSports is willing to travel to any area where there are benches built and a minimum of 5 students. This instruction is done free of charge to the group. It is part of what we do. I personally have travelled to Australia to perform this training when the above criteria were met. If you have further questions about what we can do to get a group and training started in your area, please PM me.

3, Even if you can make a blade you think is suitable (which I can) there is still a certification process to have your blade blessed by the Bladesport folks, and then still the additional training requirement for you to personally use it.

The knife certification process is easy and done by the makers themselves. We simply ask about the heat treatment process, and the materials you have used. We then ask if you have tested the blade, and how you performed the testing. There is no specific certification. We have often used the schools to certify a blade, as the blade is used in training in the same way it would be in competition. We do this only to help in not having a failure during a competition that would disqualify a competitor, injure the cutter or any of the crowd.

4, Finally, as has already been stated there are practically (or effectively) no blades commercially produced for people to buy. Yeah, the Benchmade looks cool, but that much money for a blade you would have to travel half way across the country to use, , ,not a good return on investment.

For training and during any event, knives are provided to any needing them. This is done free of charge. I and other makers at BladeSports have more than once given knives to individuals who are active in the sport. We want people to participate, and are willing to meet people more than half way to get them participating.

[sarguy]

Well, the sticker shock hits a lot of folks. There are exactly two production competition blades that I am aware of and the price is at $500 for the one with a confirmed steel type from the manufacturer..

I'd have to say that this is a major factor as to why I haven't adopted this sport as a competitor yet. If there was an acceptable "production" class that allowed for knives such as the Hossom Forester, that would be quite palatable to me. I certainly understand the costs of a good custom knife; I just feel that a large initial purchase deters people like myself who are more apt to get into things (like Spyderco collecting) in an incremental fashion.

Even though I might spend $500 dollars in a year on Spyderco blades, several small purchases fly under my lovely wife's "holy cow, that's a lot of money for a hobby I don't understand" radar, while one large purchase is bound to garner plenty of scrutiny.

A "pocket knife" competition class would be very cool, as well.

[SQSAR]

Thanks for the info. All I can say is when/if a Bladesport competition comes to Colorado, you will almost certainly see me there. And, when/if I do finally compete, you will see me taking home the gold.

I still think Ken's idea of a 'stock' folding class/category would be sweet to both watch and compete in (no real heavy 'chopping' but I'm sure there can be other skills tested). Will stay tune for further updates.

One thing is for sure, , , your inquiry here on the forum, and interaction to the responding posts, is a good sign that the organization is serious about growing the sport. And that cool.

[jackknifeh]

I would enjoy blade (cutting) competitions. I think that is why Cold Steel uses the advertising they use on the DVDs they have. I have watched lumberjack competitions a few times and thoroughly enjoyed watching the cutting and chopping and climbing. I learned how to climb a telephone pole using gafs when I was young and love watching those guys climb trees. Also, the guy in a nail hammering contest. One guy would tap the nail once and on the second strike the nail head was flush with the wood. He even had his competition laughing out loud when it was taking them 3-4 hits or more.

Anyway I'd like to give my moral support even though it isn't worth much. I am wondering what type of competition there would be using small knives. Would it be as exciting as someone using a big knife?

Good luck,
Jack

[unit]

I would enjoy blade (cutting) competitions. I think that is why Cold Steel uses the advertising they use on the DVDs they have. I have watched lumberjack competitions a few times and thoroughly enjoyed watching the cutting and chopping and climbing. I learned how to climb a telephone pole using gafs when I was young and love watching those guys climb trees. Also, the guy in a nail hammering contest. One guy would tap the nail once and on the second strike the nail head was flush with the wood. He even had his competition laughing out loud when it was taking them 3-4 hits or more.

Anyway I'd like to give my moral support even though it isn't worth much. I am wondering what type of competition there would be using small knives. Would it be as exciting as someone using a big knife?

Good luck,
Jack

I would like to think it would be interesting to MORE people.

Not only will some cuts be a higher level of difficulty (cutting a free hanging rope for example...you have less blade to work with, so accuracy is more important), but draws and deployments could be incorporated, AND returning the knife to the pocket would end timing.

I think this is something people could relate to...and using a stock knife with factory edge would demonstrated once and for all, that the knives are GREAT, but the competitors win the competition (not that blades).

I think there is a bigger group of EDC guys than choppers. And it is (to me) like the difference between Olympic weight lifting and the strong man competitions. Watching guys lift bars with weight is apparently not as appealing as watching guys carry stones, pushing trucks, and other tasks that some of us find ourselves relating to?

Further, you could have categories of various limitations on the knives.

The least limited category might only deal with dimensions.

Intermediate categories would allow for any customized geometry/handle and clip configuration/sharpening on a PRODUCTION piece (i.e. a pimped out Spyderco Military in M4 might be in one pocket, and a similarly pimped out Benchmade might be in another). Sounds like a new category of knives I would collect (Hello, sponsors?)

And a PURE STOCK category would have a single model of knife show up in sealed boxes prior to competition (participants would have previous knowledge of the model). Seal broken, knife handed to competitor, and his/her run starts.

I think you would have a lot of interest in this!

Obviously, the lack of competitions in everyone's areas is a problem, but I think that is the point of this (grow the sport and it will reach farther)

[jackknifeh]

I can see where the possibilities are almost endless. I've been to cat shows where the only factor is the appearance (eye color, fur, tail length, etc.) You could have the same with sharpening maybe. Categories could be sharpness of course, mirror appearance, bevel evenness, etc. Basically visual as well as functional categories. I don't know. I would like to see the sport grow.

Jack

[psychophipps]

I have to agree with the idea of separate classes. Something in the mid-size range would attract a lot more people than having to buy a log that you can't use for anything else. Plenty of folks making 4-5" blade knives on the cheap that can do pretty much everything on the list except cut up a 2 x 4.

I'd be down with a version of the sport that lets me use a more reasonable knife.

[yablanowitz]

Yeah, I think BladeSports kind of started at the wrong end. The NHRA didn't start drag racing. They standardized and formalized and made it much safer, but they didn't invent it. And even NHRA drag racing didn't start with nitro burning funnycars.

I think to achieve widespread popularity, you're going to need something like a "stock class" and "run what ya brung" competitions. You need to get the Busse fans and ESEE fans out there with their beloved knives showing each other that theirs is the best. You need to pit the Foresters against the Rock Salts. You need to have people see a Youtube video and say "Hey! I've got a knife like that! I think I can do this!" rather than "That's cool, but that thing looks more like a cleaver than a knife."

Can it be done safely? Probably not. But while the highly specialized competition cutters are fun to watch in action and safer, it's going to be stock production knives that make the sport take off, safe or not.

[jackknifeh]

I have to agree with the idea of separate classes. Something in the mid-size range would attract a lot more people than having to buy a log that you can't use for anything else. Plenty of folks making 4-5" blade knives on the cheap that can do pretty much everything on the list except cut up a 2 x 4.

I'd be down with a version of the sport that lets me use a more reasonable knife.

I don't guess you would be interested in a contest using a Delica to chop a 2 x 4? Maybe there could be some comical things included.

Jack