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Thread: A plea to Mr. Glesser.

  1. #21
    Spyderco Forum Registered User peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    How was the Danish legislature ever able to be convinced that somehow a knife is made so much more dangerous by being able to be opened with one hand, anyway? I mean, was there no voting member present with the brains and guts to stand up and say, "People, this is absurd! Nothing about being a one-hand opener makes a knife worth banning!"?
    "Within this frame an ocean swells -- behind the smile -- I know it well..."

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by peacefuljeffrey View Post
    How was the Danish legislature ever able to be convinced that somehow a knife is made so much more dangerous by being able to be opened with one hand, anyway? I mean, was there no voting member present with the brains and guts to stand up and say, "People, this is absurd! Nothing about being a one-hand opener makes a knife worth banning!"?
    This boils down to some numpties being put together to make the laws.
    They then needed some experts and asked:
    A: The weapon technical department of danish police, who said that OHO "is dangerous" without further explaining it.
    B: They needed an expert and asked the danish importer of Victorinox and Wenger pocket knives what he thought a legal knife should be like.

    The most hilarious thing is, that the laws has been tightened several times, OHO was forbidden after an Italian backpack tourist was stabbed to death in Copenhagen, he tried to outrun a drugdealer after having received his goods but not paid for them.

    Quote Originally Posted by sal View Post
    Hi Gyssedk,

    Welcome to the Spyderco forum and thanx for taking the time to post your inquiry.

    We've been aware of some of the problems with knfe laws throughout the world in recent years. Denmark is one of the more draconian in their attitude towards sharp pointy things in your pocket.

    I am not opposed to your request. The DK was in question becaue some with knife experience could open the knife with one hand. We cater to the brits with a number of models and their knife laws are almost as daft as yours.

    Let's say that we make a prototype or two with very small holes in the blade at the proper location. Large enough to use with your thumb and index finger to pull the blade open, but too small to actually use one handed. We've been experimenting with this concept for some county's laws. A non-locking Slipit with a blade under 7 cm. We could use our FRN UK handle as a platorm to minimise prototype expense. Once a determination is made, we could make "nicer" versions.

    Are you in a postion where you could take such a sample to the "powers that be" and see if it would be acceptable?

    sal
    I know for a fact that in Denmark OHO literally means OHO, spyderflicking an sak is also OHO

    A new spyderco slipjoint knife for the danish market would need a strong backspring to avoid being flicked open.
    The new Native slipjoint could be nice in a DK legal version.

    Sal, if you like, I am related to a DA who is also very knife interested, I am quite certain that I will be able to persuade him to offer his oppinions on the knife.
    There is not any way you can have a knife "aproved" by the Departement of Justice, but I think passing it through the DA's office, and through the weapon lab too (should it be possible), will give you the feedback you need?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by gyssedk View Post
    The problem with the Urban is that it has been constructed to be one-hand opening. And according to danish law this makes it illegal to own, and according to the general interpretation, it would be illegal even if it was modified by welding the hole closed.

    The knifelaws are even so ambiguous that it states that IF a knife CAN be opened with one hand it is considered one-hand opening.... this would in the strictest sense make the Gerber gator illegal since i can easily open this knife with one hand.... But this part has to my knowledge never been enforced.


    Ted mentioned a mirror polished "hole" and that is also an option, i had been thinking of a jeweled hole, put one of these options on a Millitary and i will buy the first 2 made!
    Just to correct GysseDK on this matter, in danish there is a difference between design and construction. A knife Designed to be OHO'd is also "constructed in a way that makes OHO possibble" The design is irrelevant, modifying an OHO folder so it no longer can be OHO'd makes it legal, because it is no longer "constructed in a way that makes OHO possibble"
    Be that a combination of tackwelding and mirrorpollishing, or just a quick sweep on a grinder.

  4. #24
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    If the issue is one of intent in manufacture, then I would like to respectfully submit the following suggestion:

    - start by creating a model that is specific to the Danish market in every regard
    - replace the one-handed opening hole (which serves equally as a "signature" feature as a OHO feature) with a cut-out "Spyderbug" scaled down to appropriate dimesions.

    In other words, make a UK penknife with this instead of the round hole:
    http://www.spyderco.com/pix/products/large/STK1_L.jpg

    The design would not be for OHO, but for use as a "signature" and reducing knockoffs, copyright violations, and other intentional intellectual property crimes.

    I don't know enough about Danish law, but I think that would easily pass muster in the courts here.

  5. #25
    Spyderco Forum Registered User wsdavies's Avatar
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    Best suggestion so far!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinetreebbs View Post
    Gyssedk
    There is a more radical solution, one that worked for my Mother's parents, they immigrated to the US.
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.
    Theodore Roosevelt

  6. #26
    Spyderco Forum Registered User dbcad's Avatar
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    Welcome Ngradaul and legal beagle, this forum has some good and knowledgable folks. Enjoy your time here.

    You guys seem comfortable with points of law. I haven't even been able to find a translation of Danish knife laws in english. In German I'd be able to muddle it out with a dictionary and some time, Danish is out of my league.

    It seems that Sal and the OP are looking at it and evaluating options. Denmark is a small democratic country and dyssedk will have an easier time talking with the people that matter in this knife rights debate than any of us would have. No sense in questioning the laws of a sovreign nation even though we might disagree with them.

    We all love knives though, that's why you're here
    Last edited by dbcad; 01-16-2011 at 12:43 PM.
    Charlie

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  7. #27
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    How about a balisong type with a spring on one side that would take both hands to open? A Terzuola type resistance.

  8. #28
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    makes me wonder why the usa spent so much in people and money defending Europe from the nazi`s and then commies, only to see the people of these countries adopt communism all by themselves. This is a lesson to all of us here in the usa. there are forces here that wish to disarm america as has been done in the eu and elsewhere. What these people who put themselves into power with promises and lies fear most is an armed free population. once your disarmed then your no longer free and only live at the whim of those in power.
    sorry you have such crappy knife laws but then in some respects you and your fellow citizens let yourself get into this. this is what happens when a people trade freedom for free things.
    my knives:
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  9. #29
    Spyderco Forum Registered User dbcad's Avatar
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    Bada 61265, Appreciate some of your sentiments, but politics are not discussed here, for good reason. On this forum I will try not make any declaritive statements about politics one way or another. I believe the Danish way of living and the way their gov't handles things is entirely up to them.

    Who am I to judge?? Apply that question to youself..........It's a question I apply to myself quite often. I ain't perfect either.

    Hopefully Sal and the OP have gotten together to work out the issue of legally getting around Denmarks strict knife laws. inflammation of the issue is not productive.
    Last edited by dbcad; 01-16-2011 at 04:51 PM. Reason: grammar
    Charlie

    " Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler."

    "Integrity is being good even if no one is watching"

  10. #30
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    Thank you for the warm welcome

    I have been reading on this forum for a while and decided to join as a member a few months ago. I am going to follow, and contribute too, this thread, I sense this might be the beginning of something very nice

  11. #31
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    This thread has really taken off, and it seem that some really competent people have sprung in to action, and we even have a "local" (ngraudal) who might have some inside strings to pull, so i am feeling optimistic, but as dbcad mentioned, this is neither the time or place for politics, so i would appreciate if we kept that away from this discussion. This is about getting Spyderco´s in danish hands and pockets, and it is also about creativity. I think that it is sad that i have only been able to find one decent modern knife that i can legally carry, but that is the world i live in, and nothing in this forum can change these laws, but they can push the envelope of knives and maybe open up a new market.

    And that Sal Glesser even bothers to help us say a whole lot about him and the company, that can not be stressed enough, and for even considering this project he should have souvenir from Denmark ;-)

  12. #32
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    This is why I am glad I live in America.
    Great to see Sal trig to help other countries out so they can enjoy the pointy things in life.
    Great job Spyderco!!!!!!

  13. #33
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    It is also worth to add that this knife is not exclusive to Denmark as a legal EDC. They have banned the carry of OHO in another European country quite recently, I just cant remember if it was the Netherlands or Belgium... A shortbladed slipjoint Spyderco with no OHO, that might even fit into the UKPK FRN handles would open a market to steel enthusiasts in countries that have the same sad laws as Denmark.
    I sincerely hope that this adventure will be profitable for Spyderco, this is just proof that Spyderco listens to customers, and potential customers, and are top people to deal with.

  14. #34
    Spyderco Forum Registered User dbcad's Avatar
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    That's one of the reasons I trust this company, They have integrity.

    I really would like to see how things work out. Please let me know............
    Charlie

    " Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler."

    "Integrity is being good even if no one is watching"

  15. #35
    Spyderco Forum Registered User araneae's Avatar
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    Welcome to the new folks from Denmark. This seems to be a productive thread. I hope that a reasonable option comes out of it for you. Sal is a very responsive and if anyone can help you, it will be Mr Glesser.

    Would a Kiwi slipit be out of the question? It really is not a one hand opener, and was not designed as such (although it can be accomplished with rare bit of dexterity and some difficulty.)
    So many knives, so few pockets...
    -Nick
    Light Modding and Wharnifying when time permits

    Just got:Lum Nishijin

    The "Spirit" of the design does not come through unless used. -Sal

  16. #36
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Pinetreebbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gyssedk View Post
    And that Sal Glesser even bothers to help us say a whole lot about him and the company, that can not be stressed enough, and for even considering this project he should have souvenir from Denmark ;-)
    Besides awesome Spyderco knives, Sal's business philosophy and the way Spyderco is run make me a die hard fan.
    Have you joined Knife Rights yet? Go to: www.KnifeRights.org
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  17. #37
    Spyderco Forum Registered User peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Dbcad, there is a fallacy at work there, though. One need not be perfect in order to identify errors. I think we can all agree that outlawing OHO knives is wrongheaded; fails to address crime; treats a symptom and not a cause; cannot and will not control crime. ...

    I have no compunctions, personally, about "judging" the Danish laws about this. I feel very comfortable when saying that they're just plain wrong. This is not strictly an issue of, "Well, it's the prerogative of the Danish government to do things the way they see fit." That may be true, but it doesn't mean that all of its decisions are correct, axiomatically, just because they are theirs.
    "Within this frame an ocean swells -- behind the smile -- I know it well..."

  18. #38
    Spyderco Forum Registered User peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Does anyone else besides me feel that designing a knife to comply with these absurdly draconian laws does more harm than good? It's one thing for it to be good for a knife company (opening up a market), but it sadly entrenches the laws, legitimizes them, acknowledges them, and capitulates to them. It's a surrender.

    I would much rather see the energy and effort go into shining a light of REASON onto the inane decision-making that went into these laws, and getting them repealed.

    I would support a plan to design this knife as long as it was part of a project that would set aside some sales proceeds to be used in a legislative campaign for knife freedom.
    "Within this frame an ocean swells -- behind the smile -- I know it well..."

  19. #39
    Spyderco Forum Registered User jonsidneyb's Avatar
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    Hi Jeffrey

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by peacefuljeffrey View Post
    Does anyone else besides me feel that designing a knife to comply with these absurdly draconian laws does more harm than good? It's one thing for it to be good for a knife company (opening up a market), but it sadly entrenches the laws, legitimizes them, acknowledges them, and capitulates to them. It's a surrender.

    I would much rather see the energy and effort go into shining a light of REASON onto the inane decision-making that went into these laws, and getting them repealed.

    I would support a plan to design this knife as long as it was part of a project that would set aside some sales proceeds to be used in a legislative campaign for knife freedom.
    There is no way you can affect danish politics by doing lobbywork, no politician will stick their neck out and risk being the one that slacked the weaponlaws.

    Danish knifesociety (yes, they exist) have previously written to the departement of justice and asked why OHO was banned, the answer: "It was the oppinion of the police technical unit that any OHO folding knife must be viewed as particularly dangerous"

    The current wording of the law is very unfortunate, since it is possible to open almost any knife with one hand. Even swiss army knives can be opened with one hand, with the correct technique. I must hasten to add that I have not yet heard of anyone being brought to trial for carrying an sak.

    If Sal think it could be funny to mock the danish DoJ, then I would suggest making the hole in the handle instead, to symbolise that "there is something rotten in the state of Denmark".

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