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Thread: Very Large folder discussion

  1. #1
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    Very Large folder discussion

    The subject of very large folders has come up here and there. Since there seems to be opiion on this, I thought to provide the topic its own thread.

    Why should Spyderco make or not make very large folders?

    sal

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    Sorry bout derailing the other thread, Sal.

    In terms of large folders, I think the Police is the longest Spyderco has to offer without going fixed blade, and honestly that is the knife I end up EDC'ing the most. Now I know I'm not the only one because of the sales of Cold Steel Voyagers and Espada's, and I would love to see a large folder from Spyderco with 5.5 inches of vg-10

    Sure small folders are nice to have, but there are already so many on your market that they cover every single possible task you can think of! In terms of chopping power, self defense, and law enforcement Spyderco has the civilian and matriarch along with some of the automatics, definitely a smaller collection than the sub-4 inch limit. California has no blade limit on fixed blades, and Texas is 5.5 inches so there are some huge markets for these knives.

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    I am a long time Spyderco user and forum lurker (that had the honor and pleasure of having a wonderful conversation with Sal at USN G2 in Vegas).

    I can think of only one company that produces a quality large production USA made folder. Short of purchasing a custom, no one makes a large quality folder with a hole in the blade. I believe there would be market for such a Spyderco offering or offerings.

    Neal

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    Great minds think alike . . .

    I just posted on a similar topic. Not looking for a novelty monster folder, but I think it would be great to have a robust leaf blade folder in the region of 3.5-4" cutting edge (not overall blade length). Was suggesting in the thread below that it could possibly be done by updating the original large Manix, tweaking the Superleaf, or producing a more robust, premium version of the Resilience.

    http://spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46924

    Great to see the man himself initiating discussion around this - have a feeling that he will be more successful than me in drumming up responses.

    [PS - I'm new to this forum, but an Endura was the first proper knife I owned, and Spydercos still account for the majority of my folders.]

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    I'm not a fan of huge folders. With my small hands, I find the Military too big to be comfortable. A four inch blade or longer, and I'm strictly in fixed blade territory.

    Gordon

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    "Why should Spyderco make or not make very large folders?"

    To respond to Sal's question more directly, I see monster folders as mainly novelty items as handles much over 5" become a waste of materials and don't offer any additional carry convenience over a compact fixed blade. So, I'm not too fussed if Spyderco choose to go into that market or leave it to the likes of CS.

    Why do I think they should make a strong 3.5-4" leaf blade? Because:
    1) Sometimes you don't want to bother carrying a fixed blade, but still want to have something on you that can perform much the same tasks as a 4" woods bumming FB, just in case something goes pear-shaped.
    2) Spyderco plain makes many of the best practical use folding knives out there, and seem to be missing this niche of a somewhat larger, but still practical folder.
    3) Noone does leaf blades like Spyderco.

  7. #7
    Spyderco Forum Registered User tonydahose's Avatar
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    i used to want a very large folder for heavy duty use at work. a little background first, i promise i will get back to the big folder. i used to carry a tasman (any other knife steel other than H1 would rust after one fire). the tasman was nice but the pin started to get loose and the knife would open up on the outside of my firecoat by itself which isnt a good thing. i fixed it with a vise but i am very glad that you are going with screw construction now. i retired the tasman (gifted to another FF) and i bought a jumpmaster...it is a GREAT KNIFE Sal. i wish there was a window punch on the end but i am going to be trying to mod it myself and install one. i can't say enough about how good this knife is for the fire service with a few changes. OK back to the big folder knife. one reason people would want one is like myself they might have pretty big hands and a big knife would just fill it better. i also think there are people like myself who want a knife that can on occasion when the SHTF can pry with it, chop with it and basically void the hell out of the warranty with it but it will get them out of the jamb they are in. the problem i see with that is the warranty issue. you will have knuckleheads who will probably never have a need to put any knife or tool to those extremes that i mentioned above but will do so just to test the knife and then whine when you dont give them a brand new one so they can do the same thing over again but this time video it and post it on youtube. i can't see a way around those dumb knuckleheads. i am sure it has in part to do with a certain companies dvd but shiny footprints and all i will leave it at that. i am not a knifemaker but if you could come up with a knife that had some heavy duty steel or titanium handles, all screw construction, a giant screw pivot and a bulletproof lock than i think the normal person could tweak the knife if it somehow got messed up or at the very least it would be easy for your team to get it back to spec and send it home without spending too much money to fix it. if you can make it happen, great if not thanks for at least thinking of it.

    ps. i just got one more FF in my house to carry a Jumpmaster
    Last edited by tonydahose; 12-24-2010 at 06:57 PM.
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    Spyderco Forum Registered User HotSoup's Avatar
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    Right now, the Police and Military are the 'largest' folders Spyderco offers. Unfortunately, some people just plain LIKE bigger more robust knives. Both the P3 and Military, while strong knives, have thin blades, and are outdone in performance by other models out there.

    As I mentioned in the other thread, knives like Cold Steel's Large and XL Espada, Rajah II, 5" and 6" Voyagers, have been extremely successful. Some may argue that some of the designs are novelty. While I agree, particularly for models like the Espada, people still are after them (whether they may be mall-ninjas or not, hehe). So what? Some of us (including mysefl) have no use for a 7" folding knife, but someone out there wants one, and right now, the market is cornered by ONE manufacturer, who, in my opinion, makes STRONG knives, but, that lack the ergonomics and attention to detail Spyderco puts into their designs.

    Personally, I'd like to see something in the middle of the road. A folder with 5" blade, and 4mm thick stock. Think maybe Chinook-like in robustness. OR maybe a large leaf folder?

    I'm sure Spyderco could engineer a properly executed BIG folder, than would be comfortable to carry and that, in terms of performance, could match and outdo the other big-boys on the playground, but one area that I am concerned about, is price.

    While I think for the most part, Spyderco makes knives worth the money, I see some competitors making knives that are popular, because they are less expensive, more robust, but at the cost of less 'frills' (which does include inferior blade steels). This begs the question; "Does a new BIG model need to have S30V or or Carpenter steel etc etc? Can we get something that will do the job, but sport perhaps a less exotic blade material?'
    I guess there is a balance that needs to be achieved, and thats for Sal and Spyderco to work on.

    EDIT: Let me just add this; I don't want Spyderco to change its identity. I love it for the way it is now, and the kinds of knives it has been making for all these years. All I'm saying is, dabbling into the BIG folder market, for maybe a model or two, would be interesting
    Last edited by HotSoup; 12-24-2010 at 07:10 PM.

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    Spyderco Forum Registered User HotSoup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaj999 View Post
    I'm not a fan of huge folders. With my small hands, I find the Military too big to be comfortable. A four inch blade or longer, and I'm strictly in fixed blade territory.

    Gordon
    I definitely see your side of the argument, but for every person with smaller hands, there are guys like me with big ones, who like wrapping our digits around Milies and Chinooks

    Also, I'd argue, carrying a folder, is for the most part, more convenient than a fixed blade for a lot of people, but personal preference does play a role here.

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    I like larger folders. Does Spyderco need to make 10 different large folders? No. 1 or 2 would be nice, something 4.5-5 inches. Emerson and Benchmade sell plenty of "super" folders. Other companies sell their large folders. I'd like to see a robust 5" folder, G10 handle, with a price around $100, but is it worth it for Spyderco? I don't know. Spyderco makes a lot of great designs, did they need to make an auto or balisong? Nope, but they did. What ever happened to the Bison? Wasn't it suppose to be a big folder?



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  11. #11
    Spyderco Forum Registered User SolidState's Avatar
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    My only input is this:

    I would love a large folder for cooking while camping. I have been mulling a Resilience or the next bigger size for some time for that purpose. I've also been looking at A.G.'s folding hocho for some time, but think it would do better to have a 6-8" blade.

    I won't beat on anything bigger than an Endura unless it's a fixed blade. I have a machete for that.
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    For the most part the Military is fine for my purposes for a large folder but there are times when I wish my Millie was a bit longer with a stronger pivot point and not as thin a point as it has. It's still my favorite 99 times out of 100.

    There are going to be many people out there who would love a large, robust folder for hiking, camping, construction or other duties. When it comes down to it, if Spyderco builds it they will come.
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    I don't think I would have much of a desire for a large folder unless it was unique, and then it's just for novelty purposes. I have a few large folders, if you can call them that. They were handed down from my grandfather who was a paratrooper in WWII (101st Airborne). They were really folding machetes and I still use them for clearing brush, usually in conjunction with power tools. I prefer them to fixed blade machetes, because they are much more compact and relatively easy to carry while lugging a chainsaw or dragging a tree. I'm not sure if Spyderco is type of company to make a big bulky folding machete, but it's an example of a novelty item I'd be interested in.

    Honestly I'm probably interested in a lot more of the 2-4" blades than anything else. That's Spyderco's sweet spot for me. I have no reason to consider buying from anyone else - Spyderco is a trusted manufacturer and they produce more varieties that I'd love to own but lack funds and space to do so.

    With that said, if anyone could surprise me, it's Spyderco. Who knows maybe I would buy one.

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    Sal, if you're gonna decide to put a large folder in the works, you can sign me up for a pre order right now, I'll be the first one to cough up the dough right here right now

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    A spyderco rukus would be sweet! I don't see anything bigger than a 4.5in blade, but spyderco can do whatever they want. Preferably with at least s30v.

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    Spyderco Forum Registered User catamount's Avatar
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    I believe the Resilience, with 4 1/4" of actual edge, is the largest folder currently offered by I really like my Resilience, and think of it as a folding Temperance. I'd gladly pay the price for a version of it, or a similar design, in a premium steel (like VG-10).
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    To be completely honest... a huge folder with a hole in the blade would be of limited interest to me. However, Spyderco has a way of taking historical knife designs and making something totally unique. I'd buy something totally unique. I'd love to see someone make a folder out of the traditional coffin handled bowie, for example. Or to make a folding, false edged version of the Arkansas Toothpick. Large folders have there place... I'd like to see the spyderco "take" on the large folder.
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    Spyderco Forum Registered User Jay_Ev's Avatar
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    I seem to recall Ed Schempp once talking about a Spydie called the 'Tuf' or something like that being a big folder.
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  19. #19
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    Yeah a heavier (maybe much heavier built) resilience with a better quality steel, would be great.

  20. #20
    Spyderco Forum Registered User demtek9's Avatar
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    Truthfully, I like large folders but just can't carry them. It doesn't mean that I don't own them. The Military is one of my favorites and so it the Police. I buy almost all the variations, but carry none due to non-knife people and local laws. (I'm already pre-ordered for the brown and fluted Military). There is room for a large folder, but I think Spyderco should spend time on this......

    Build a folder that feels larger than it actually is! I love my Spyderco knives, but carry a Strider SnG or SMF CC because it feels like a big folder, but appears much smaller. Their choil area of the SnG and SMF takes away from the cutting length, but not away from the performance. The RIL, smooth G10 of the CC model and unique finishes are why I love those models regardless of who made them. I also really like the design of the Hinderer Xm18 for the same reason. It is an over built medium folder...It's built like a larger folder in materials and design.

    Sal embarked on making this "Little Big knife" concept after 9/11 and when I saw the Lil Temperance, they were on the right path. The handle ergo's of that knife needed a little more refinement, but it was a step in the right direction. The compression and ball locks are ones that I trust as much as the RIL and only Spyderco has those features. This leaves a lot of creativity that can be done with the handle. The Chinook was another monster that could have been better. It was too heavy and the lock backs are just not my thing. If that knife had been evolved more, then I think it could have rivaled almost any other knife.

    I crave less squared off handles and more contours. I want strong locks, pivots and super steels. I want better handle ergonomics that melt into your hand and unique blade shapes and grinds. That rear handle area of the Lil Temp is what kept if from being on of the best knives I've ever handled. I think Spyderco should focus on these things more than size. You still push the envelope with your Mule teams and other ventures, but more can be done.
    Last edited by demtek9; 12-24-2010 at 09:18 PM.
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