Sharpening my tenacious on my lansky.

[srtwrc]

Good day spydi guys and girls, I am new on this forum and new to spyderco knives in general. I have been lurking on here since i first started looking into spyderco knives and have been amazed by the wealth of knowledge from eveyone on here. The reason for my post on here today is i got my first spydi a while ago, the good old tenacious and i love this thing. This has been my first good quality folding knive other than the 154cm blade in my leatherman charge. Now this thing came sharp but after reading many post on here it can always go sharper. Now me being a noob and not really knowing to much about edges and sharpening ran the knife through my smiths pocket sharpener which straight away took the razor endge of the knife. Now it was still usable but it wasnt a laser guided chainsaw that i expected it to be so i thought i would have a go at freehand sharpening. Well that turned out messey and by now i had really killed the edge and it wouldnt even cut paper. So i have done alot of research about using the lansky and the different posistion the knife in the clamps makes to the final edge angle and have brought it bake to a reasonable edge but i just cant get it back to at least factory sharp. Im using the sharpie trick on the edge but it just isnt getting really sharp even though it is grinding the sharpie off. I have attached a pic to show how i am clamping the knife into the clamp so hopefully one of you experts can comment. sorry for the poor quality, i just use it as a guide so i know how to clamp it next time. I also use the 17mm guide on the clamp so it should give me around a 15mm to 20mm edge angle, only guesing from some of the post i have read. Any info would help me greatlly. Thanx in advance for your time and effort.

[yuldeli]

I had a difficult time getting a good edge on my Delica with a Lansky, don't know why. I switched to the Sharpmaker and the blade is now scary sharp.

[Evil D]

As far as the Lansky goes...you basically have to pick a spot to mount the knife, and either take a picture to use for reference or even scribe the blade with a mark if you don't mind doing that, so you mount it in the exact same spot every time you sharpen it. On my Caly 3 i like to clamp it as far out from the clamp as i can and still have enough bite to keep it steady, which for me is about an 1/8 inch past the little notch on the clamp that's used for really small blades.

Next, on mine i found that in order to keep the FFG blade from wobbling in the clamp (which will totally screw up your sharpening/angle) i had to put another screw in place of the red knob and tighten it with a screwdriver to get it tight enough that it stayed centered. I also use masking tape on the blade, which helps to keep it from moving and keeps from scratching up the blade with the clamp.

Then, whether it was because of the size of my blade or the position it was clamped in, i had no choice but to reprofile the edge. This didn't make a difference for me because i'm only sharpening on the Lansky, so if the blade position/size etc throws off the actual angle degree it doesn't matter as long as it gets sharp (what i mean is, if i'm sharpening at 17 degrees but it's actually higher or lower due to the blade position or size, i'm ok with that and it won't matter to me since i'm only using this sharpener). So, once you decide on a spot to mount the particular knife and make yourself some kind of reference so you can repeat it, get it clamped tight enough that it won't move (this is only an issue with FFG blades...the red knob works fine with saber grinds or any grind with a true flat/square spine) and you do the marker trick and/or reprofile, you'll be good to go from this point on as long as you're meticulous about where and how you mount the blade. One thing i will stress is make sure that on your clamp where the 2 halves meet, there's that gap between them that the blade creates...make sure that gap is always even all the way down between the 2 halves of the clamp every time you sharpen, as this will throw off the angle if you have them crooked.

After all that it's just your basic honing process, go through the grits and polish out the burr and you'll be good to go. I'm shocked that these clamp/guide companies have not come up with some kind of instructions and/or solution for the FFG blade owner, especially with the amount of FFG blades used in the kitchen.

[Creepo]

As far as the Lansky goes...you basically have to pick a spot to mount the knife, and either take a picture to use for reference or even scribe the blade with a mark if you don't mind doing that, so you mount it in the exact same spot every time you sharpen it. On my Caly 3 i like to clamp it as far out from the clamp as i can and still have enough bite to keep it steady, which for me is about an 1/8 inch past the little notch on the clamp that's used for really small blades.

It's an option and there is nothing wrong with it but this way you don't have much control over the actual angle of the edge. It may result in having a steep edge on a quality knife resulting in less than optimal cutting performance or a shallow angle on a cheaper knife with softer steel resulting in a weak edge. This is also problem if you use multiple sharpening systems on the side, like a Sharpmaker or a similar crock stick set.
I did some calculations on the actual angles the Lansky system produces (they're not even close to what they say they are) and how to get angles such as 25˚, 20˚, 15˚ per side:
25˚: 30˚-setting with 1cm between the edge and the clamp
20˚: 25˚-setting with 1cm between the edge and the clamp
15˚: 20˚-setting with 2.5cm between the edge and the clamp
You can also produce an around 14˚ angle using the 17˚-setting with the edge as close to the clamp as possible.

For my personal use I've found that 20˚ works well on blades with a steel on par and above 440C/AUS-8 (8Cr13MoV is around this mark, a bit above I guess), for lower end steels if I want a longer lasting edge I use 25˚.

For steels like 154CM and VG10 I use both 20˚ and 15˚ depending on the use, for small light use knives like the Spin it's 15˚, for harder use like my D4 and Rock Lobster I prefer 20˚. It's a much debated subject and this is just my personal preference.

For S30V and other "super steels" I use 15˚.

However you decide to go make a mental note on where you placed the clamp the previous time, so that you don't have to reprofile it everytime.
Here's a pic that shows what I meant by 1cm/2.5cm between the edge and the clamp:

Also, to guarantee that the edge angle is consistent all the way from heel to tip you should place the clamp so that the distance is equal from the tip to the clamp and from the heel to the clamp. Also the heel and tip should be on the same level. As shown in the pic above.

Next, on mine i found that in order to keep the FFG blade from wobbling in the clamp (which will totally screw up your sharpening/angle) i had to put another screw in place of the red knob and tighten it with a screwdriver to get it tight enough that it stayed centered. I also use masking tape on the blade, which helps to keep it from moving and keeps from scratching up the blade with the clamp.

+1 to the masking tape.
This is what I do to remove the wobbling:

Just loosen the screws enough to make it fit like that.

Then, whether it was because of the size of my blade or the position it was clamped in, i had no choice but to reprofile the edge. This didn't make a difference for me because i'm only sharpening on the Lansky, so if the blade position/size etc throws off the actual angle degree it doesn't matter as long as it gets sharp (what i mean is, if i'm sharpening at 17 degrees but it's actually higher or lower due to the blade position or size, i'm ok with that and it won't matter to me since i'm only using this sharpener). So, once you decide on a spot to mount the particular knife and make yourself some kind of reference so you can repeat it, get it clamped tight enough that it won't move (this is only an issue with FFG blades...the red knob works fine with saber grinds or any grind with a true flat/square spine) and you do the marker trick and/or reprofile, you'll be good to go from this point on as long as you're meticulous about where and how you mount the blade. One thing i will stress is make sure that on your clamp where the 2 halves meet, there's that gap between them that the blade creates...make sure that gap is always even all the way down between the 2 halves of the clamp every time you sharpen, as this will throw off the angle if you have them crooked.

After all that it's just your basic honing process, go through the grits and polish out the burr and you'll be good to go. I'm shocked that these clamp/guide companies have not come up with some kind of instructions and/or solution for the FFG blade owner, especially with the amount of FFG blades used in the kitchen.

As Evil D said, just keep working on it, you'll get there eventually.
The marker trick is extremely helpful!
Also keep in mind that different grits produce different edges. The 600 fine makes a very sharp edge but you'll need the ultra fine 1000 if you want to get close to wicked sharp. I've been able to produce a hair whittling edge on some knives with 20˚ using the ultra fine and a leather belt to strop it.
It'll take a while to get the hang of it and to learn what amount of passes works on what knife.

Hope I could be of some help with the mile long post.

[wongKI]

Lansky was my first system. Got good edges with it.

Here's what I did:

REMEMBER WHERE YOU CLAMP.
I used the spyder logo as my mark.

Use the lowest setting, do a full reprofile and go from there. Start with the 80-grit stones. Work up a good burr on both sides.

Still using the coarsest stone, reduce pressure until the burr is gone. By now you should have a decent edge.

Step up the grits, step down the pressure, remove burr before moving on.

By the time you get to the extra-fine, it's going to be great.

[Creepo]

Use the lowest setting, do a full reprofile and go from there. Start with the 80-grit stones. Work up a good burr on both sides.

Still using the coarsest stone, reduce pressure until the burr is gone. By now you should have a decent edge.

Step up the grits, step down the pressure, remove burr before moving on.

By the time you get to the extra-fine, it's going to be great.

Exactly so, only very light pressure with the last strokes before going to the next grit. But try not to remove too much material.

[Evil D]

Creepo....awesome info...way over my head as i'm not a math guy, so thank you for that.

As for the clamp diagram...i originally started with using mine that way, but i found that it makes the degree waaay higher than when the clamp is parallel with itself when clamped. Do the marker trick on this one and see for yourself. I started out clamping so that the clamp surfaces were flat on the FFG blade and i reprofiled that way and was fine but one day i got curious about how that effected the angle so i reclamped it the other way and did the marker thing and sure enough it was WAY more steep clamping it WITH the FFG. If you clamp it with the clamp halves parallel, and do the marker trick, you'll see that you're now hitting the very pack of the bevel...on mine it was so bad that i had to reprofile a LOT.

Like i was saying about replacing the red thumb screw with a regular screw...i've found that doing that along with using tape in the blade, keeps my knife in tight enough that it doesn't wiggle, and i can even push with my thumb pretty hard and can't tell that it's moving. Strangely enough it also seems to "self center" in the clamp somehow. This works great for me because the FFG knife i'm sharpening is ZDP and the rule of thumb there is to use a very light touch when sharpening...which is added peace of mind that i won't "push" the blade off center....i figure if hard pressure from my thumb doesn't throw it off center then i should be fine with my sharpening strokes not pushing it off either.

[Creepo]

As for the clamp diagram...i originally started with using mine that way, but i found that it makes the degree waaay higher than when the clamp is parallel with itself when clamped. Do the marker trick on this one and see for yourself. I started out clamping so that the clamp surfaces were flat on the FFG blade and i reprofiled that way and was fine but one day i got curious about how that effected the angle so i reclamped it the other way and did the marker thing and sure enough it was WAY more steep clamping it WITH the FFG. If you clamp it with the clamp halves parallel, and do the marker trick, you'll see that you're now hitting the very pack of the bevel...on mine it was so bad that i had to reprofile a LOT.

Yea that did occur to me, though the diagram is a bit exaggerated I gotta admit. Personally I don't clamp it either way, I use the something between the two options, the happy medium so to speak. So it shouldn't be that big of an impact on the angle.

[JayTeeEmEm]

thought u had joy with the sharpmaker ? can you bring it to work so i can grab it? welcome to the forum mate,see you on monday.

[srtwrc]

thought u had joy with the sharpmaker ? can you bring it to work so i can grab it? welcome to the forum mate,see you on monday.

Jayteeemem i was tossing up with the sharpmaker or the lansky. I wanted to test out the sharpmaker to see which one to buy. I will probably buy the sharpmaker in the end as well but i thought the lansky would be a better buy to start off with because i can reprofile with it, which i needed to do with the tenacious plus the advantage of once i have it clamped in the same spot i am pretty much guaranteed to have pretty much the axact same edge. Plus it gives a better range of angles and grits to work with. Thankyou for lending it to me to have a try bro, i appreciate it.

[Evil D]

Either way, i think the biggest and most important thing with using any clamp sharpener, is to make sure you set it up exactly the same each time...and you'll have less headaches. Always use a marker on the edge (i use one before each stone just to make absolutely sure nothing has changed). Another thing i'll make note of is, if the rods on your stones aren't perfectly straight, that's going to effect how the stone hits the edge and will also throw off your sharpening. This is an issue that can be exploited if you're looking to get lower than 17 degrees, as you can bend the rod to let the angle of the stone drop and hit the edge lower. The problem here is, once you bend the rod you should probably leave it that way so you can repeat the sharpening at that angle.

[Creepo]

Either way, i think the biggest and most important thing with using any clamp sharpener, is to make sure you set it up exactly the same each time...and you'll have less headaches. Always use a marker on the edge (i use one before each stone just to make absolutely sure nothing has changed). Another thing i'll make note of is, if the rods on your stones aren't perfectly straight, that's going to effect how the stone hits the edge and will also throw off your sharpening. This is an issue that can be exploited if you're looking to get lower than 17 degrees, as you can bend the rod to let the angle of the stone drop and hit the edge lower. The problem here is, once you bend the rod you should probably leave it that way so you can repeat the sharpening at that angle.

Yes, to quarantee a good sharpening, you pretty much have to use the marker every single time.

[srtwrc]

Thanks so much for the time and effort eveyone put into the replies. Now i know im pretty much doing everything correct, maybe i didnt remove enough metal as i had to reprofile the edge. I will clamp back into the same posistion and go through the motions again How do you know when you have honed the edge enough to move onto the next hone?

[Creepo]

Thanks so much for the time and effort eveyone put into the replies. Now i know im pretty much doing everything correct, maybe i didnt remove enough metal as i had to reprofile the edge. I will clamp back into the same posistion and go through the motions again How do you know when you have honed the edge enough to move onto the next hone?

First of all apply the marker several times, especially if you use the oil (which helps when removing a lot of metal). This will ensure that you have actually honed all the way to the edge.
Even after the coarse hone you should be able to "cleanly" cut paper. As you progress the cut will be cleaner every time.

This is how I hone:
1. Make sure the edge is set and the hone is hitting the very edge.
2. Depending on the steel I start with 3-5 passes. For example 5 passes on both sides, 4 passes on both sides... 1 pass on both sides, 1 very light pressure pass on both sides.
3. Test for sharpeness on standard printer paper, if it fails return to 2. and start from 2-3 passes.
4. Move on to next grit and repeat 2-4 until you reach the final grit.
Listen to the steel, how it sounds and feels when honing, with experience you'll be able to tell what works and when it's good.

Optional:
5. If you finish with 1000 or finer you may strop it on some leather. I've been using an old leather belt (100% real leather), and it's worked out well. A piece of leather mounted on a firm base is better though.
A quick word on stropping: basicly you lay the knife on the leather in an angle so that the leather is barely touching the edge. Then you drag it accross the leather SPINE FIRST and do this 20-40 times per side. Do not use any additional pressure, the knifes weight alone will do.
Hope this helps. ^^

[srtwrc]

I am applying the marker and then honing until it is gone but the edge isn't getting that sharp. Im wondering if the position i have the knife in the clamp is actually quite a high edge angle and not low like i was thinking. (17 to 20) as i seem to be hitting the edge cause the sharpie line is coming off but it isn't really getting sharp. I don't really know what else it could be. Any other ideas would be greatly appreciated. I really haven't had this knife sharp sharp since i got it. After what grit should it be able to shave arm hair?

[srtwrc]

Thank-you to everyone who gave me advice, last night i concentrated on making sure i worked the hone enough to really get the very edge and get a perfect even bevel along the whole length of the knife. So far i have only worked the 70 grit but it is cutting paper so much better now along the whole edge. I wanted to spend as much time as i could getting the bevel as perfect as i could before moving onto the next hone, that will be a job for tonight. After close inspection last night and using the sharpie trick i noticed that the bevel just wasn't totally flat and even so i guess that was my problem i just hadn't worked the hones enough to get it even. It is quite difficult to know when it is time to move to the next hone.

The info that chuck_roxas45 wrote about trying to get a nice even scratch pattern really helped me. Although i still didn't really get a burr happening, does this mean i still haven't worked the hone enough? I have only really just got the edge all even along the length of the knife. Do you think i should work it more to try and get the burr up? Would anyone be able to post a pic of what the burr should look like just to help me out more? Thank you again.

[srtwrc]

Thanks merthyrmafia, i have watched that video several times. How long does it take before you generally get a even polished edge with the yellow superfine hone. I seem to be really struggling to get a even polish on the edge. I probably made around 50 or 60 passes on each side. What is the normal amount need after moving on from the grit before.

[srtwrc]

Yeah true, thanx Creepo, I tried the finger nail trick on the very edge and that is a really good way or seeing what the edge condition is like. I finally have my tenacious beck to shaving sharp or at least i reckon factory sharp thanks to all the very kind people that went to the effort to help out someone to learn the basics of a very tricky skill. I really appreciate all the help cause i know now there was no way i would have got the edge as good as i have by myself. The lansky is truly a fantastic system once you take the time to understand and learn it, you really can get a great edge on a knife with it. It is also a great system to re-profile a edge as i did. You know it is a good system when someone like myself who has no sharpening experience at all can screw a edge up trying freehand sharpening and then by a $100 sharpening system and re-profile a edge back to factory or at least close within a few weeks of learning and practice. I thought it would be easier than i though but i know now and appreciate what some people can do with there edges.

Thank-you all again, i appreciate it.

Riley.

[chuck_roxas45]

I have a DMT aligner kit, but for my tenacious and persistence, the Sharpmaker does fine. I can probably get either knife free hanging hair whittling in less than 15 minutes on the SM. Much less time including set up for the DMT aligner. I did get my persistence really dull once by cutting sausages on a glass plate. I broke out the DMT aligner for that. I sharpen at 40 degrees inclusive on the SM for a more durable edge.

[The Mentaculous]

I have a DMT aligner kit, but for my tenacious and persistence, the Sharpmaker does fine. I can probably get either knife free hanging hair whittling in less than 15 minutes on the SM. Much less time including set up for the DMT aligner. I did get my persistence really dull once by cutting sausages on a glass plate. I broke out the DMT aligner for that. I sharpen at 40 degrees inclusive on the SM for a more durable edge.

is the DMT aligner at least decently sturdy? Also how many angles, and are they close to accurate? I had a lansky but the aluminum frame snapped from tightening the screws

For now I'm using my sharpmaker with good results, but I need something for re-profiling etc. I want something that works, is not ridiculously priced (edgepro looks sweet but way too much chedda) and won't snap in half too easily. I'm considering getting diamond rods for my SM but I'd like to have the option for a lower angle, plus the diamond stones cost as much as a DMT aligner or gatco diamond set

PS-Creepo those are great illustrations, I probably could have used those lol it took me a while to figure out how to secure my knives in the clamp without wobbling